I’m trying to work out if its genius or madness from the Libdems. Would you take him seriously as a potential prime minister after the last 72hrs – of course not
Worked for Johnson, sort of.
The problem is it does seem to be the only way for the libdems to get any attention vs Labour, tories and ukip.
The second is that you have no idea what any policies should be and you want the 70,000 or so LibDem members to decide for you.
That strikes me as an odd comment. Surely you can say the same re. any other party?
That strikes me as an odd comment. Surely you can say the same re. any other party?
Not really.
If you are Labour or Tory then you're in it to win it. If you win then at least notionally you're supposed to follow through with your election pledges.
If you're a minor party then you have a core focus and if you get a sniff of power then you cover yourself in petrol and go about threatening to burn everything down if you don't get your demands met ( see the DUP).
Lib-Dems don't have a core focus and don't have the clout to implement their policies. You don't find out what they are going to do until after the election when the members get together to decide what everyone who voted for them actually voted for.
Surely you can say the same re. any other party?
Labour and the tories arent overly keen on the members having a say. So its whatever their mps and donors want.
I am not sure thats an improvement over the Libdem members though.
@dissonance Big problem we have is national TV that are determined to pretend we’ve a two party system, while inviting Farage onto QT. So they’ve got to be noticed somehow and I don’t think anyone is pretending Davey will be PM (not least as that went badly in 2019).
@slowoldman The difference is that the LD membership have a direct say in policy unlike Lab or the Tories.
You don’t find out what they are going to do until after the election when the members get together to decide what everyone who voted for them actually voted for.
That’s not quite true - policy is set at conference ahead of time, situation you described is what happened in 2010 with the potential coalition.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1796193024269062167?t=YRszi5TICVpiJL-XUcwGng&s=19
Further proof that Sunak is utterly out of touch, has zero empathy and should never be allowed anywhere near Real People.
The quote tweets are worth a read too.
Horrific.
Sunak: Mickey Mouse degrees will be banned!
Photographers:
(Just seen Kimbers post) but my point still stands which is the most valid poll? I guess that’s down to assumptions.
It doesn't matter which is the most valid. Just look at what they all say.
Every single opinion poll since August 2021 has given Labour at least 40% of the vote. And every single opinion poll since the beginning of October last year has given the Tories less than 30%.
Since nothing has changed in the first week of the general election campaign, and whilst we can't obviously know the result of the general election, we can very reasonably conclude that Labour will get at least 40% of the vote and the Tories are unlikely to get much more than 30%.
There is no realistic scenario in which the Tories will win.
I think it’s reasonable to assume Lab will win with an outright majority too.
Further proof that Sunak is utterly out of touch, has zero empathy and should never be allowed anywhere near Real People.
Ok so on the downside a lot of people died and their families couldnt properly mourn them.
Upside though I got on tv and got to create the Sunak brand.
As the saying goes every cloud has a gold lining.
Jim'll paint it on form. The lettuce! 😂
I see Sunak was at NiftyLift, that was my first job 25 years ago. Nice to see the logo I designed for them is still in use. I did get the impression that the owner was a full on Tory.
I also worked at another company with a full on Tory owner - Dyson - I remember Cameron doing a company tour during his election campaign. What a nob
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11kvk1je4o
He added that the Tory Party was now "unrecognisable" from the party he joined a decade ago.
I am surprised that he only joined the Tory Party a decade ago. I also don't understand how it is now "unrecognisable" from ten years ago....less commitment to austerity?
Still, I'm sure that he will feel very comfortable in the Labour Party.
That’s not quite true – policy is set at conference ahead of time, situation you described is what happened in 2010 with the potential coalition.
What they decide at the conference only really becomes relevant if they get a majority which is never going to happen so who cares.
The lib-dems only exist to get into a coalition so the important decisions get made after the election, after people have already voted for them.
People say 2010 was a long time ago and why can't people move on but the problem is nothing has changed and the exact same thing is going to happen again.
A Conservative Party spokesman said: "Much of the association wanted him deselected for inactivity and his failure to be present in Bolton for extended periods of time. And he's been asking No 10 for a peerage.
"Explaining his decision to support Labour, Mr Logan said: "The time has come to bring back optimism into British public life."
I dunno, asking for a peerage after essentially being judged useless by your own gang is pretty optimistic.
The lib-dems only exist to get into a coalition so the important decisions get made after the election, after people have already voted for them.
I’m sure they don’t see it that way.
Another Tory shyster, Mark Logan, defects to Starmer’s vacuous morality-free Labour, with his voting record he”ll be cosy on the Labour sofa
Good MPs like Diane Abbott, Faiza Shaheen etc out, Tory shit in.
It's odd that Starmer wants to avoid alienating the electorate but the majority of the electorate wish to see a ceasefire in Gaza. Who's calling the shots here?
I have no preference. This “less than perfect Labour party” are near indistinguishable from the Conservatives.
That's just objectively wrong and might as well have been written by a Tory campaign manager.
Good MPs like Diane Abbott, Faiza Shaheen etc out, Tory shit in.
I can't understand what he's playing at. By all means let the MP "cross the floor" or express an interest in defecting. That still sticks it to the Tories.
But then shut the door in their face. Sorry, don't want any last minute morals here thanks, you stuck with your side through everything they've done, you can't now be claiming that you've just seen the light, coincidentally just as you're about to lose your seat in a GE.
Natalie Elphicke - I mean WTAF?! Mark Logan is marginally better - I mean he has the vaguest hint of principles about him although his voting record is still pretty abysmal. I'd have pushed them straight back at the Tories. Sorry, your circus, your monkeys.
Brothers union representative in the fire brigade has been in touch with him, they’re not very impressed with starmer at the moment
It’s odd that Starmer wants to avoid alienating the electorate but the majority of the electorate wish to see a ceasefire in Gaza. Who’s calling the shots here
Thats just like asking people if they’d like the war in Ukraine to stop or just would you like world peace?
HTF is Starmer supposed to make these things happen? Why is it his fault that there isn’t a ceasefire in Gaza?
Maybe he could stop it raining? I suppose that’s his fault too?
I’m sure they don’t see it that way.
I'm sure they don't.
However, they were struggling for relevancy even before 2010. When there was a clear ideological difference between the Tories and Labour it made sense for there to be a party in the middle. Now there is no middle between Labour and the Tories (unless being slightly less evil than the Tories but more evil than Labour is a reasonable position to take).
Brexit gave them the perfect opportunity to reinvent themselves as the only European party but then they decided there weren't enough votes in it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66878234
Technically Swinson tried to make them the bomb-throwers for EU membership but people were too busy laughing at her 'I'm running for PM' pitch to notice. But now instead of coming out swinging they are playing in puddles.
If you are a minority party you actually have to go out and convince people of what you believe in, not just follow along with what they seem to be saying. The Lib-Dems had the chance to own an issue (and it's an issue that more and more people are realising can't just be ignored anymore). Instead they chose to continue their slow circling of the toilet bowl, just waiting to finally disappear forever.
Maybe he could stop it raining? I suppose that’s his fault too?
Thats a bloody good idea binners, d’ya think he’d also turn the temperature up a bit if I donate to his “be more Tory” campaign?
Starmer gave the green light, 'israel has a right...' if you remember. Even if he can't stop the weather, the least he could do is protest on basic humanitarian grounds. And he hasn't.
I watched the TV news earlier. Both Lab and Con were trying to outdo the other on how they'll cut taxes, NI, VAT, etc. while increasing police, decreasing NHS waiting lists, etc, etc.
I'd prefer it if Labour treated the electorate as intelligent and said, "That's Tory nonsense, it's unaffordable. Junior doctors still haven't had their pay dispute settled, so how will they cut NHS lists without doctors?"
But no, we'll join the absurdity race... Labour are painting themselves into a corner and defeat within five years
HTF is Starmer supposed to make these things happen?
How is he supposed to call for a ceasefire?
Dunno, maybe he can pop across the sea and ask the Irish government how they managed to call for a ceasefire?
It's a bit of a tricky one!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68577381
HTF is Starmer supposed to make these things happen? Why is it his fault that there isn’t a ceasefire in Gaza?
On here he was to blame for it in the first place, then when he finally called the vote for a ceasefire it didn't happen instantly, again, another failure for Starmer 😡
Good MPs like Diane Abbott, Faiza Shaheen etc out, Tory shit in.
I think Faiza has the makings of a good MP, so not sure what's going on behind the curtain there, but you're pushing it stating Abbott is a good MP 🤣
As for the tory shit, both MPs mentioned aren't standing again at this election, Elphicke was just a stunt to rub the tories nose in it, Logan is basically just stating his parties dead, neither are going to be Labour MPs, they are just soundbites being used to sway more middle of the road voters to Labour hopefully.
I think Faiza has the makings of a good MP, so not sure what’s going on behind the curtain there, but you’re pushing it stating Abbott is a good MP
Why has she repeatedly been elected by her constituents then?, you may have posted a laughing emoji but your posts are anything but.
Maybe he could stop it raining? I suppose that’s his fault too
No, it's just his fault being on the wrong side of just about every progressive and pragmatic solution to Tory failure. (In fact he's known to take stray Tories in.)
I mean, I know some of the crowd would like this thread to be just about Sunak's sinking ship (sign posted ages ago.) - but it's not gonna be.
I watched the TV news earlier. Both Lab and Con were trying to outdo the other on how they’ll cut taxes, NI, VAT, etc. while increasing police, decreasing NHS waiting lists, etc, etc.
Because both parties have been ridiculous about the way economics actually work in our country - leading us down a cul-de-sac.
Pretty inevitable when you look at the fiscal rules being almost identical.
Doesn't need to be like this
Anyone watching the Blue on Blue between Farage and Morgan on QT?👍😂
Why has she repeatedly been elected by her constituents then?
Nothing against DA but since the seat was created, in 1950, it has been held by Labour, on a pretty large majority. She'd have had to be spectacularly bad to not be elected, and while we supposedly vote for a person and then affiliation, I think we all know that isn't really how it works.
I used to live in the Henley on Thames constituency.... BoJo was repeatedly elected with a huge majority. Because he was a really good MP??
Labour stronghold
I thought lefties alienated Labour supporters? Isn't that the entire premise of the centrist argument? When did that unshakable centrist rule no longer apply?
Support for Diane Abbott has significantly increased since she first became an MP. More of her constituents vote for her than constituents for Starmer.
My understanding is that the only measure of success for centrists are election results, in that respect Diane Abbott has been massively successful.
Anyway the Guardian is still running with the story, along with the rest of the media:
Leading Black figures criticise Labour’s ‘disgraceful’ treatment of Diane Abbott
Starmer has played a real blinder. I reckon that screwing this up provides an insight into what to expect his premiership to be like. Things are going to liven up after he's moved into Number 10
Why has she repeatedly been elected by her constituents then?
You could apply that logic to JRM but I doubt many would describe him as a good MP.
Didn’t realise the dilapidated state of the UK was Labours fault till now
Well apparently on STW it's all Starmers fault.
I also don’t understand how it is now “unrecognisable” from ten years ago….less commitment to austerity?
Mr Johnson purged all those with a moral compass, is probably the biggest change @ernielynch (Those like Dominic Grieve).
Scrolling up this page and back its quite remarkable to see virtually no mention of any political issue or policy change that would interest the average British voter: record immigration, record worklessness, rocketing crime, tanking economy, etc
Odd.
Ed Davey arriving for an interview on the finer points of the Libdem pension policy
https://twitter.com/i/status/1796203642837495910
Abolish the royal family, form a republic. There you go. May as well start at the top.
The frothing about Abbott continues.
I've been at a branch meeting this evening - with CLP next Monday.
No reference to Diane Abbott in discussions either before or after this evening's session - as there won't be at the forthcoming CLP.
I'm sure this is a big deal in metropolis central but out in the shires - where the election will be won or lost - it's a complete non-event.
The frothing will continue for a few days with those who think this really matters; then, business as usual.
Not sure how starting with the royals will help key issues such as
record immigration, record worklessness, rocketing crime, tanking economy, etc
But it can't hurt
