In my canvassing on Wednesday Diane Abbott's name wasn't mentioned once on the doorstep, talking with voters of different political persuasions.
Out in the shires - where this election will be won or lost- there is absolutely no interest in the Hackney/Stoke Newington/metropolitan frothing about perceptions of how Diane Abbott has been treated.
There has been no reference to her in my CLP and branch social media
If there are any comments about her in my door knocking campaign or any reference to her in my CLP and/or branch social media feeds over the next few days I'll post about on this thread.
Ernie, it's tiresome reading many of your posts which attempt to denigrate and/or imply a sense of superiority on your part but if that's what gives you a frisson - crack on but do tell me...what are you hearing on the doorstep when you're out canvassing?
Diane Abbott should exit stage left gracefully now - and preserve her legacy; if she doesn't, her name and reputation will be much diminished.
Some matters are really important and are worthy of serious and extended discussion; this is not one of them
I do wonder about the apparent focus of some posters which appears to be rooted in notions of ideological purity with no reference to the real world; good luck with that.
Don't forget to take your pragmatism pill - you'll feel much better for it
The labour party moves on with new focus and the news cycle just keeps trundling on
This is more a point around what Starmer is and how he has acted and will continue to act when PM. The way he has handled/allowed the Abbot issue to be handled is crap by any measure.
People on the doorstep may not be interested but that doesn't mean those who are interested cannot discuss it on a forum. You don't get to decide which matters are really important in an open discussion I'm afraid.
You don’t get to decide which matters are really important in an open discussion I’m afraid
Great general comment.
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1795972940850167948?t=vqUITSGz-96Yzj3ScaqCsw&s=19
Authoritarian? She 'liked' a Jon Stewart tweet for a sketch he did about Israel.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1795942561258889318?t=5lxYjKvCmamTNGtU3L-AuQ&s=19
(Twitter not being embedded here from the app any longer?)
widely held consensus
You mean by you and the Westminster bubble. I don't have Frank's direct evidence from door knocking, but i strongly suspect that the vast majority of normal voters outside Hackney couldn't care less about how Dianne Abbot has been treated. Nor will it impact how they vote.
The widely held consensus now appears to be that Starmer’s handling of the Diane Abbott crisis, a crises of his own making, is his first major blunder in an otherwise faultless first week general election campaign.
While I agree this hasn't been a good day for SKS, the version of the news I heard last night is that DA was going to stand down, on her terms, and then this was leaked. Even that bit is unclear, she was going to be barred (BBC was saying she'd told a BBC reporter that yesterday morning, by lunchtime it was 'there are reports' and in the afternoon it was 'no-one's said that to me and I'm not'). Who's been feeding the news and to whose benefit?
So I'm not sure how much control SKS has had over the issue - equally, how much control do we want him to have, how authoritarian do we want our party leaders to be? At the same time, DA now seems to be quite intent on causing a bit of damage to the party overall by demanding that she WILL be standing in H&SN, so much as she's been badly treated, is her big picture view correctly aligned with what the PLP and country need or is it what DA wants to do?
Also AIUI the NEC decides the candidate list in the end. And that has to be completed next week. How much say would SKS as leader have on that? Can they decide that DA is to be admitted to the candidate list without his buy-in?
So's the majority of the PLP but according to our man in the know
Denying Diane Abbott parliamentary candidature does not appear to be popular with Labour MPs right across the party, if Starmer wants to maintain the goodwill of the PLP it should be hoped that Morgan McSweeney and David Evans, the two people who probably make all these decisions, will tell him to allow Diane Abbott parliamentary candidature.
so will they hand him DA's candidature and tell him to get on, or allow him to boot her out and then gripe and moan about it later.
Probably the most telling thing is the fact DA is big news, if it were the Tory party it’d barely get a mention. In my opinion the opposition parties are under much higher scrutiny than the Tories.
A party that has room for Elphicke but not for Abbott doesn’t have room for me either.
Ernie, it’s tiresome reading many of your posts which attempt to denigrate and/or imply a sense of superiority on your part
Did you have a straight face when you typed that?
The Tories must be laughing their tits off.
Look at them all! All those old lefties wanging on about Diane Abbot again. Those sleeper cells we put in to Islington North and Hackney decades ago still just keep on delivering, don’t they?
Meanwhile, outside the north London/Westminster bubble…
Nobody cares.
A party that has room for Elphicke but not for Abbott doesn’t have room for me either
So would you rather have another 5 years of the Tories, or hold your nose and vote for a less than perfect Labour party?
Probably the most telling thing is the fact DA is big news
Because that's what the Mail and Murdoch media want. (Yes I know the Guardian are talking about it too, but it's bound too)
Not sure it's news anymore, and it'll be even less so when the next big thing is released for the election this week or next, as stated before, i think the likes of Abbott should have been bringing their candidate to the table now, MPs in their 70s going for another 5 years isn't a great thing, surely they have some protege who could take over the challenges.
So would you rather have another 5 years of the Tories, or hold your nose and vote for a less than perfect Labour party?
This is what gets me about all of this, yeah Labour isn't perfect, if we had PR I would be voting Green constantly, but how can anyone consider that a less than perfect Labour Party is worse than the money grabbing, narcissistic tory party.
"A party that has room for Elphicke but not for Abbott doesn’t have room for me either."
Me neither, I shan't be voting Labour whilst Starmer is leader. I do wonder where we would be if Rebecca Long-Bailey had won the leadership contest.
I do wonder where we would be if Rebecca Long-Bailey had won the leadership contest.
Looking forward to another Tory majority, no doubt
“A party that has room for Elphicke but not for Abbott doesn’t have room for me either.”
Is DA being kicked out of the party then?
do wonder where we would be if Rebecca Long-Bailey had won the leadership contest.
Lagging about 10pts behind the tories I expect
Ernie, it’s tiresome reading many of your posts which attempt to denigrate and/or imply a sense of superiority
I can't for the life of me figure out why you read them then - can you explain?
I suspect that what you are really trying to say is that you find it tiresome to see me posting opinions which you don't agree with and other people might possibly read.
Btw you I'm loving your "imply a sense of superiority" comment after you inform everyone on here that all the media, all the political pundits, and all the Labour MPs giving interviews, are all wrong to treat Diane Abbott mismanaged mess as important.
You personally have apparently decided that it not something which has any importance because it won't be in the news forever - eventually, you inform us, it will "blow over".
I am sure that Keir Starmer is hoping that it will blow over very quickly, presumably you also hope so for the same reasons. And why you want to derail the discussion by descending into personal bickering.
Let's get back to discussing the current main election campaign issue.
"do wonder where we would be if Rebecca Long-Bailey had won the leadership contest.
Lagging about 10pts behind the tories I expect"
Possibly, but what difference does it make when you can't see any difference between the two parties?
What change have Labour promised from the current rabble?
So, I’ll ask again….would you rather have another 5 years of the Tories than hold your nose and vote for a less than perfect Labour party?
This, with a thousand plus's!
I'm an SNP Member but if Labour were likely in my constituency to beat the incumbent Tory I'd be voting Labour.
The Tories must be laughing their tits off.
Hunt with the silent 'C' had a dig right at the end of his interview* on the Today programme. I don't know the significance of that, TBH. The whole drama is viewed by the Tories as a gift - whether anyone else gives a shit - well, we'll find out on July 4th. Abbott isn't going to take one for the team**, by the sounds of it, though. 🙄
Elphicke is also a gift to the Tories. I just hope none of this is significant out there in the real world.
*'Interview' is being very generous.
**'The Team' in this instance being the 99.9% of the 67m people in this country who need the Tories gone.
"Me neither, I shan’t be voting Labour whilst Starmer is leader.
So, I’ll ask again….would you rather have another 5 years of the Tories than hold your nose and vote for a less than perfect Labour party?"
I have no preference. This "less than perfect Labour party" are near indistinguishable from the Conservatives.
I have no preference. This “less than perfect Labour party” are near indistinguishable from the Conservatives.
Apologies if I missed it in this thread, "However, over the bank holiday weekend both the Conservatives and Labour pledged to introduce "dangerous cycling" laws if they are elected, suggesting legislation will be resumed following this summer's election." https://road.cc/content/news/labour-and-conservatives-pledge-dangerous-cycling-law-308553
What a Labour canvasser in Hackney North and Stoke Newington might find according to the Guardian:
'I feel sick’: fury in Diane Abbott’s constituency at treatment of their MP
Although I don't know how they might go about canvassing at the moment...."Good evening, I am canvassing on behalf of someone who has yet to be personally chosen by Sir Keir Starmer to be the Labour candidate, can we count on your support? They will do a great job, whoever they are".
Apologies if I missed it in this thread, “However, over the bank holiday weekend both the Conservatives and Labour pledged to introduce “dangerous cycling” laws if they are elected, suggesting legislation will be resumed following this summer’s election.”
Yeah, but Labour will do it competently...
At the end of the day, who gives a flying **** whether Diane Abbot or Magic Grandad is a Labour MP or an independent MP or voted out and gets an allotment to keep them busy.
People who don't want to be governed by a deeply racist party ?
Meanwhile Luke Akehurst, Israeli lobbyist, has been parachuted into a safe seat in Durham.
This “less than perfect Labour party” are near indistinguishable from the Conservatives.
I still hold out hope that although they won't change very much or make stuff noticeably better for the people who need it they won't be such a vindictive bunch of arseholes. As that is my only realistic hope it says it all doesn't it.
“A party that has room for Elphicke but not for Abbott doesn’t have room for me either.”
They are both members of the Parliamentary Labour Party. The question is now whether they will be allowed to stand as candidates in the election. I doubt Labour will let Elphicke stand. Who knows what on earth they are doing with Abbott.
Looking forward to another Tory majority, no doubt
Lagging about 10pts behind the tories I expect
I love the suggestion that Liz Truss's and Rishi Sunak's premierships would have been hugely popular if it wasn't for Keir Starmer.
Him alone, apparently, made first Liz Truss deeply unpopular with voters and then he pulled the same trick when Rishi Sunak became PM.
Starmer seems to have almost super powers.
@timba Evidence-based policy it is not, unless Lab are going to do it as part of a general review of roads offences. There was some stuff about making our streets safer but no detail, and I’d really like to know what their plans for ATE’s budget are.
I think Elphicke says she's standing down and it seems although DA has been allowed back into the party she's being deselected so is considering standing as an independent (whereupon I suppose she'll be expelled from the party). Starmer's doing a great job keeping all this in the news and his Israeli computer man is pretty whizz at tracking people's 'likes' on X. Wowzers.
MPs in their 70s going for another 5 years isn’t a great thing, surely they have some protege who could take over the challenges.
Age and experience can be useful features in an MP - especially a back bench mp who is likely to give their own party a hard time!
she’s 70. The oldest Tory is 79 and planning to stand again. Tony Benn was 75 when he stepped down, Tam Dayell was 72 or 73. Ken Clarke was 78.
She would make a good Lord, regardless of whether you like her politics or not.
I love the suggestion that Liz Truss’s and Rishi Sunak’s premierships would have been hugely popular if it wasn’t for Keir Starmer.
To be fair a lot of those currently shouting "if you dont vote for the glorious leader its a vote for the tories" would have been dedicating themselves to helping out the tories.
So I guess it is possible.
Age and experience can be useful features in an MP – especially a back bench mp who is likely to give their own party a hard time!
she’s 70. The oldest Tory is 79 and planning to stand again. Tony Benn was 75 when he stepped down, Tam Dayell was 72 or 73. Ken Clarke was 78.
She would make a good Lord, regardless of whether you like her politics or not.
But what has she done in her 40 years in Parliament, i've not really seen her noted as being a minister for anything, or leading on policies to be mentioned in the same breath as Tony Benn, or Ken Clarke, and also interesting that both Benn and Clarke were backbench non entities whilst in their 70s?
Just had to look up who Tam Dayell is, which kind of tells the story, same with Peter Bottomley, backbenchers who do nothing of real note, you've basically named people who didn't really do much in Parliament after they hit retirement age.
But what has she done in her 40 years in Parliament, i’ve not really seen her noted as being a minister for anything, or leading on policies to be mentioned in the same breath as Tony Benn, or Ken Clarke, and also interesting that both Benn and Clarke were backbench non entities whilst in their 70s?
A lot of that is to do with media reporting - as usual the only things media are interested in is clickbait, controversial views/topics and culture wars so an MP quietly getting on with the job of representing their constituents (often in fairly dull matters) is not really newsworthy.
As soon as one of them opens a can of G&T on the Underground though, they're front page news for days...
Sums up the problem of election campaigning really. From both main parties, it's just culture war, blame, accusation and argument. Nothing on policy (actual workable policy that affects day to day life, not Rwanda or Palestine), no vision, no aspiration.
A choice between:
Stick with us, the plan (which we're not really going to explain to you) is working
or
We're not as shit as the Tories but we've kind of got a lot of their policies because we think some might be popular
I have no preference. This “less than perfect Labour party” are near indistinguishable from the Conservatives.
Which is fair enough, I think there's a few like yourself that will find themselves voting for "Brewster", but you were probably of that mind already a year ago(?).
The remainder of this week will be interesting now, as we'll discover just how tolerant of lefty slapping the remaining core labour voters and those swing voters actually are.I'll admit I did think this was one of those things SKS could roll straight on through, but it feels like a far more significant gaff now.
The metaphor of choice for Starmer is someone carrying a Ming vase across a polished marble floor in their socks isn't it, the handling of Diane Abbots case is currently a big slip, right now he's teetering on the edge of getting stable again or tumbling on his arse.
This is all ammunition for the press and Lil' Rishi in that first televised debate, and it all does the best thing possible for those opposed to him, chips away at image and character. Nevermind how many voters he'll alienate.
The metaphor of choice for Starmer is someone carrying a Ming vase across a polished marble floor in their socks isn’t it, the handling of Diane Abbots case is currently a big slip, right now he’s teetering on the edge of getting stable again or tumbling on his arse.
Yup, the Diane Abbott issue is a huge distraction and a gift to the Tories. Starmer could however end it instantly by simply saying that of course the sitting MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington will be the Labour candidate. That would pretty much be the end of the matter.
Although he really should not have that level of power in a democratic organisation, no one should.
