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Sanders would NEVER have won. I wish that were not the case, but it is.
100% agree.. Sanders wouldn't have stood a chance
Bernie Sanders? Seriously? He wouldn’t have stood a chance!
You'd be surprised, he always polled well against Trump, and I don't think sanders was getting the extra cool polling points that Biden/Clinton always get. In addition, I think he would have resonated well with some of the working class voters in the swing states. That said, imo pre-covid Trump was in a strong position to get re-elected
There's over a million votes to be counted in PA
Its tightening in Trumps favour in AZ & NV
WI still too close
MI a while off
This is all just too depressing now. Trump is going to play it like he said he would and now there are only two real options:
Trump gets a second term.
Riots.
I'm not a big fan of the US at the best of times but now they can go and rot in the filth of their own making.
Bernie Sanders? Seriously? He wouldn’t have stood a chance!
Maybe, we don't know. We do know for certain however that he would have fought a much more aggressive campaign, and he had an army of on the ground campaigners ready to sweat blood for him. I'm not so sure the policies are particularly important in this election, it's mostly personalities, and the still relevant anti-establishment undercurrent. Sanders would have put off some anti-socialist centrists, and perhaps some black people, but he would have scooped up huge numbers of white working class votes in the rustbelt states where Biden is struggling. If you look at the map this morning, I doubt any of the currently blue states would have been lost by Sanders, but he would have stood to gain in many red ones.
America is too bigoted to vote for a woman. To the point where they’d rather have a black man than a white woman.
That's my opinion why Harris is Biden's VP.
There's no way that the US will vote for a woman, let alone a Democrat one, so let the old vanilla guy clear the pathway for her. It may happen yet.
they can go and rot in the filth of their own making
Of course the problem this time is that, because we're rotting in the filth of our own making in the UK, it'll effect us much more in terms of a trade deal that's truly devastating for food standards, health etc, or one that's just pretty bad.
Let's be honest, over the last few days Biden has looked completely clapped out. Every time I've seen him campaigning I haven't managed to hear what he's saying, a combination of wearing a mask whilst talking into a megaphone and a weakening voice.
Trump held 6 rallies on Monday, ranting for over an hour at each. For a man supposedly recovering from coronavirus his energy levels were amazing. When Biden jogged up the catwalk a couple of days ago I really began to worry, in trying to show how youthfull and energetic he was he illustrated exactly the opposite.
Trump looks like the youthful candidate, Biden comes across as 15-20 years older than Trump.
I think the talk of best candidates is a bit of a distraction too. I think when one side is willing to play on people's most base emotions in the most cynical ways, there really isn't a lot you can do, and that's what's so worrying.
No reason at all to assume western liberal democracy will last forever, I think we are seeing the beginnings of that, honestly.
One thing that baffles me is the way he seems to have got away with shitting on the military, and this coming from a draft dodger. In a mega patriotic country that reveres the military it seems very odd.
Of course the problem this time is that, because we’re rotting in the filth of our own making in the UK, it’ll effect us much more in terms of a trade deal that’s truly devastating for food standards, health etc, or one that’s just pretty bad.
It'll make no difference, we'll be agreeing trade deals with the same folk whoever 'wins' this nonsense.
Even if you disregard how controversial she is (for whatever reason)
She's had some very stupid moments. Like using the confirmation hearing of Mattis to virtue signal, or riding the Jess Smolett "incident" which then turned out that was of his making.
kimbers
Fudge this I’m going for a bike ride
Kimbers wins. 🙂
Sanders would NEVER have won. I wish that were not the case, but it is.
Would have been a much better President for the US and the world.
But wouldn't get elected over there, not in a million years. I agree pandering to the centre is tinkering with the problems, but the fact is, people don't seem to want to vote for a big lurch to the left, even if it's bin their own interests.
For a man supposedly recovering from coronavirus his energy levels were amazing.
Did you not hear his Fox and Friends call? He sounded like hell. Slurring badly and rambling about how unfair Fox had been to him. He almost sounded drunk but probably just knackered.
Its worth remembering that, so far, more than 66m US voters have said that they want Trump (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment) to be their President.
That is simply nuts
Yep, it's amazing. We just can't see what they can. If it were just one state, or one demographic then fair enough but it's half of America. Part of it will be 'never Democrat' but the rest is amazing
Even if the counts continue, and Biden gets the states he needs... Trump is now set up to be "the real President" and a right royal pain in the arse of any future administration. What he managed to achieve in terms of damaging Obama (the birther nonsense etc) is nothing compared to the disinformation and instability he'll able to spread as the "defrauded rightful ruler".
He almost sounded drunk but probably just knackered.
Trump is teetotal.
"As Trump himself admitted in a 2018 Rose Garden press conference, his lifelong sobriety is "one of my only good traits." He went on to say, "I never had alcohol, for whatever reason. Can you imagine if I had? What a mess I would be. I would be the world's worst.""
https://www.mashed.com/239831/the-real-reason-donald-trump-doesnt-drink-alcohol/?utm_campaign=clip
Its worth remembering that, so far, more than 66m US voters have said that they want Trump (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment) to be their President.
That is simply nuts
Yep, it’s amazing. We just can’t see what they can. If it were just one state, or one demographic then fair enough but it’s half of America. Part of it will be ‘never Democrat’ but the rest is amazing
How do you think we're looking to the rest of the world at the moment?
With our lying, philandering, bumbling, racist, incompetent former-journalist and sometime TV host as PM, with his huge majority, about to commit the greatest act of economic suicide ever, that was voted for by a majority of the population.
I don't think we're in a position to be passing judgement on anyone
Alas Kelvin I think you’re right.
Its worth remembering that, so far, more than 66m US voters have said that they want Trump (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment) to be their President.
That is simply nuts
What proportion of brits voted for Boris (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment)?
The pessimist in me really does see Trump winning this as much as I hate it, I just don't see another outcome
Trump is now set up to be “the real President” and a right royal pain in the arse of any future administration
This is so true. He didn't get the popular vote last time but obvs didnt care but if he gets the popular vote this year but loses hes gonna go kicking and screaming out of the white house. He has a platform now and press will stick a mic in his face because hes gonna say stupid stuff like lets drink bleach to cure covid.
Trump is now set up to be “the real President” and a right royal pain the arse of any future administration.
Doubt it..his time will be spent on the golf course, perhaps punctuated by the occasional ill thought out tweet but that's about it I reckon..
Hopefully before he dies he'll realise that his legacy is to be remembered as the worst president in US history. Although that's unlikely as self reflection clearly isnt a strong point of his, and probably even less so when he's gone senile and dribbling into his cornflakes..
For a man supposedly recovering from coronavirus his energy levels were amazing.
Massive injection of steroids will do that to you no?
@Drac think you'll find the Corbyn thread is over that way <---------- his threads never go that way ------------>
Kimbers wins.
Nope, whoever used the phrase 'ranting shitgibbon' to describe Trump wins. Hands down.
Edited to include the 'ranting' bit.
I don’t think we’re in a position to be passing judgement on anyone
Absolutely. We are not better, and in many ways worse. I mean we don't have the extreme grinding poverty and hopelessness that exists in America, and yet we still voted for a snake oil salesman even though we're doing pretty well. It's all very well us looking down and sneering at America, but we're on exactly the same path and exhibit the exact same prejudices, we're just not as open about it.
Its clear from the present rambling of some Tory MP on Five Live, saying they have no preference as to who wins, that central office Dom has ordered them not to express an opinion
Have you seen Sanders speak and campaign? He was the perfect opponent against Trump, an aggressive, straight talking pit-bull of a campaigner. My point aboout Sanders has got nothing to do with the policies and is based purely on him having the presense and aggression to turn people’s heads away from Trump. We don’t know if he would have succeeded, but it’s almost certain that he’d have run a much better campaign than Biden.
Bernie would have lost before his first speech...
To implement any policies, good or bad, first a candidate has to get elected which sadly means a calculation had to be made (by the party) about whether to challenge the electorate's built in biases and bigotry, or pick a face that more of the voters won't object to before they've uttered a word....
Sanders didn't win the Dem's nomination because he was a "bad" debater or had "bad" policies, but because lots of Dems knew that the "Socialist" mud would be flung by Trump/Fox, would easily stick in the minds of floating voters and it would be a Trump landslide...
The reason Biden was put forward as the Dem's presidential candidate wasn't because He's the "Best candidate" but because he was the "Best" white, straight, male, centrist Democrat with a chance at winning this election... So far it seems that judgement was correct, He's still in with a chance.
Some argue being a Woman hurt Hillary with voters almost as much as her actual personality and/or policies, long before a single speech was made...
I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it currently works unfortunately...
A run off between two rich, old, white men is arguably "better" because they can only really be differentiated between on the basis of policy, personality and party...
So far it seems that judgement was correct
Err, have you been watching the same election?
How long before the US is voting on which You Tuber to have as president?
Bookies now making Biden favourite at just better than evens and Trump around 2/1.
I don’t think we’re in a position to be passing judgement on anyone
I don't think we are, or at least I'm not. The point is that half of America thinks that Trump is the right person which means that Trumps America is the real America rather than some deluded imaginary version. That requires a rethink of what we imagine America is
Same with the UK of course.
Highly likely that Trump is pumped up on steroids but 'Pumped up on steroids' is a fair description of American machismo generally. So it doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if he was pumped up on crack.
Just saw Biden on TV, he sounds like he has early onset dementia and I say that as someone whose mother had Alzheimer's.
Regardless of the result, I am envious of the level of grassroots political activism and engagement in America. Something we can only dream of in Britain.
They still have a long way to go before they have the grassroots political activism of Germany or Russia in the early part of the last century.
An interesting diversion while we wait for people to count votes...
https://twitter.com/latifnasser/status/1323333293467525126
They still have a long way to go before they have the grassroots political activism of Germany or Russia in the early part of the last century.
Heh.
Not sure it's a long way to go though, it's all gone a bit "March on Rome".
Err, have you been watching the same election?
You do know that Biden has a reasonable chance of winning?
What proportion of brits voted for Boris (liar, racist, sexist, incompetent international embarrassment)?
25,351 in the 2019 general election, 160,000 Conservative members in the 2019 leadership election
are we waiting on absentee ballot counting in NC & Ga ?
Michigan trump lead is being slashed - was about 235K in lead, now down to 65K in the space of 30 mins - there's hope.. CNN seem to have a half sensible commentary going on..
are we waiting on absentee ballot counting in NC & Ga ?
I think so. The details will depend on the particular state, but some states allow ballots that are postmarked by E-day, but delivered late.
https://twitter.com/jefftimmer/status/1323950843721183236
I look back at how I perceived the USA to be when I was a kid in the 70s and it was all praries, progressive and spaceships. Now the reality is bigotry, low standards and blandness. How depressing.
I look back at how I perceived the USA to be when I was a kid in the 70s
They were the leaders of the free world.
Now they've been sold tyranny packaged as "freedom" by a crooked salesman.
So have we.