[Closed] Twisted knee on bad surface Uni Car park advice?

[i] is everyone jumping on the String the claimer up bandwagon[/i]

Why yes i do believe you are correct. The problem is that we have been down the understanding and sympathetic route in this country and its inhabitants have proven themselves to be money grabbing slimey turds (On the whole). It has come to the point where we can no longer consider what is in the best interests of peoples safety and now have to consider what is in the best interests of the nations coffers.

Personally i think a person who is obviously active should accept that if they stumble and fall due to an uneven surface then tough titties. You will be wanting the fells sanitised next wont you.

Your responsible...you weren't watching where you were putting your feet...the ground conditions shouldn't have been like that so the landowner is responsible for not having sufficient lighting and poor maintenance.

Suck it up...it's not the landowners fault you have weak muscles/ligaments/stuff that make your leg hurt.

Eat more carrots so you have beeter night vision

Park in a better lit area

Make sure you watch where you put your feet in future

All of the above is useless info really but I felt the need to post it up - hope the injury heals quickly. I fell down 2 flights of stairs at work a few years back - ripped the ligaments in both knees...was in severe pain for 3 weeks but was back riding after 4 - no pain or twinges now, but it wasn't right for about 2 months after it happened.

LOL at the "MTFU" crowd, wow that's a difficult argument to make, especially if you don't engage your brains...

Where do you think the line should be drawn in these circumstances? If your child slipped and fell badly, say broke their spine, becoming a permanent wheelchair user or PVS under your care, you would be saying "MTFU"?

Thought not...

So if there's liability for the land owners in that situation, why not in this?

Seriously MTFU.
Have a word with the Uni, and let them know what's happened. But I'd be embarrassed to come on here and start talking about claims after tripping over. Get a grip mate.
And you need to do something if you are told at the NHS to cut corners, thats a far bigger issue.
However, do hope your knee is soon fixed, though you must have used the best A&E Dept in the country to get such an accurate diagnosis...

Good point cynic-al, I agree with the no claim culture but there is a scale that these things fall on. If my car was hit I would expect for the person at fault to pay for the damage. Same here I suppose.

-who's responsible?

You.

I've got an LED torch on my keyring from DX - cost less than a quid. Quite handy when it's dark.

Perhaps you should go riding without lights at night and when you hurt yourself you can sue the landowner for not lighting up the countryside sufficiently?

If your child slipped and fell badly, say broke their spine, becoming a permanent wheelchair user or PVS under your care, you would be saying "MTFU"?

People fall over. You can't (and shouldn't) always blame somebody else.

The original poster is presumably a mountain biker, but they are trying to claim money from somebody as slipping over may now stop them from riding their bike on rough trails...

People fall over. You can't (and shouldn't) always blame somebody else.

The original poster is presumably a mountain biker, but they are trying to claim money from somebody as slipping over may now stop them from riding their bike on rough trails...

I agree you shouldn't [i]always[/i] blame another, but do you think that a land-owner such as a council or university, who provides car-parks etc, has no duty to light them, surface them etc? We must all carry torches?

I'd guess the OP's claim would be for injury/loss of enjoyment but I am not a PI lawyer.

The "would you sue the farmer for not lighting the trail" argument is particularly smelly bulls***

There are guidelines as to the state of footpaths, pavements etc, if these aren't met and the landowner knew they were in whatever state they were in then they are liable.

If a farmer strung up barbed wire at neck height to catch out MTBers you'd be up in arms. Would you tell you'r mate to MTFU and get on with it when he's decapitated or would you be pissed off that someone had done something that endangered and injured your mate?

If the footpath/car park should have been a well lit area with a good surface then he's ever right to sue for any injury sustained as a result of it's not being so.

But it seems to appear that the surface was a known, and to expect the uni to repair potholes that might have popped up overinight is a bit much. And lets face it they are popping up everywhere in this rain.

This I suppose is why the Duke of Bedford won't officialy sanction trails in our area despite massive demand. In fact I know so. As soon as he actively encourages someone to ride on his land and then if they slip off he's history.

I think on balance the claim culture is generally doing more harm than good.

The MTFU/personal responsibility argument clearly miss's the point the uni have decided to build and light a car park for which they then gain financially from the users, they have a duty of care to the users . If they breach that duty they should be liable for any loss including pain suffering and loss of aminity. If the OP contributed to the accident by his own neglect his damages should be reduced in proportion to his fault .It aint rocket science . To expand if i go to the Alps and go up on the cable car the rope snaps i sue the cable car co. If on the way down i stear badly and hit a tree or rock MTFU that's the game i chose to play . If the trail is a built maintained one which looks fine but in fact is unsuported and falls away as i ride over it possibly the trail owners fault.
Bottom line if you are injured because some on failed to do their job or live up to their legal duty, you don't MTFU, they do and take personal responsability for their error.

So he needs to MTFU?
So I'm guessing all the people that use the carpark engage in some form of dangerous sport and should live their lives always expecting danger.

Can someone explain to me at what point does this situation become the land owners responsiility. I bored of this Compensation Nation but equally bored of people cutting corners at the detriment of everyone else.

Good point though Grumm. Maybe with the money the uni's saving by not fixing the repairs they can give every paying car park user a torch thus negating themselves from all responsibility...... Maybe they can give people a stick as well so they can prod the ground before they step on it to make sure it doesn't give way

Hi, had an update from the health and safety/Transport Dept.

They have loads of people complaining about the broken surface and faulty lights and I'm not the only one who has been injured over the last 6 weeks!

So they will be sending an email that certain sections of the car park will be closed off for repairs over the xmas break and new year. They apologised and offered to help me by psoting a claim form etc. I was suprised by their helpfulness.

Well as long as it doesn't happen to anyone else and I get my knee sorted is my goal.

I've got an appt 2morro with my G.P. to write my Bupa claim for an MRI scan once the swelling is down they can see what will be needed.

Thanks for the support guys and thanks to the people who strung me up and burned me on the cross with their white hoods lol.

And never use ice cream to cool an injury...

So a good result for the car park and I'm hoping my knee will be ok for summer.

LOL at GS - I presume you are (1) not a lawyer and (2) a tabloid reader? 😛

Students and staff have beem complaining and campaigning to get pot holes fixed for 2yrs...and they just used sand.

Ok so you knew there was a pot hole but was not more careful. Yeah, good luck with your claim. You'd better hope the uni lawers are not trying to get you to prove that you are not a moron.

CA - Not a tabloid reader just bored of people that can't be arsed to do a good job; Although i'm sure your very good at yours.

Ok so you knew there was a pot hole but was not more careful.

Juan,

Can you locate every pothole in every carpark you ever use from memory, in the dark, with no ilumination?

If yes, then may I suggest porn as a better and healthier way to spend your spare hours than catalogueing car park pot holes.

LOL oww! Juan being Juan! and your Englsh is still terrible 😆

Just consider yourself lucky it didn't happen in Daisy_Dukes car park. They have a sign up don't you know, and you park there at your own risk, plus you could have been flattened by a learner forklift driver in their's.

This is the third car park related post in a week!

I broke my hip in my dad's driveway, after slipping on ice... you'd be amazed how many people told me I should sue him, probably something like 1 in 5 of all the people I mentioned it to, even though they knew it was my dad. Quite a lot said "Don't worry, his insurance will pay".

Sounds like Violenti non fit injura - you knew the risks and still chose to take them or contributory negligence to me.

Sue by all means, but don't expect much ££ in the way of compensation. Net result of litigation will probably be that the carpark will be closed to all to eliminate the risk of future claims.

I'm not claiming of anyone! I have private medical care and the Uni has responded by repairing the site over xmas and giving me a claim form but I haven't lost out as I have crutches for my Halfords shift lol.

I'm missing out on riding and have enough work and hobbies to keep me entertained.

Think I might sell my mtb and xtr parts and keep the roadbike... 😈

yeah yeah i know my english is terrible and doesn't make sense 😉
What about your French 😉

I'm just teasing you (but I've never had a lady complain about my french) 😉

Your English is better than the..English!

My tourist French is getting better as I visit Paris quite often but I'm studying Manderin and Hindi classes at the moment (almost fluent -after a year except I can't read non-Latin based characters).

8)

Now can we talk about McLaren buggies please.

Child can't get injured when the buggy is set up.
Child can't get injured if it's kept away whilst setting up.
Child can get injured through carelesness.
I obviously have a problem with this responsibilty thing.
You can bet your bottom dollar that more fingers get caught in car doors.

Health & Safety at Work act 1974, Section 4, Subsection 2:

It shall be the duty of each person who has, to any extent, control of
premises to which this section applies or of the means of access thereto or
egress therefrom or of any plant or substance in such premises to take such
measures as it is reasonable for a person in his position to take to ensure,
so far as is reasonably practicable, that the premises, all means of access
thereto or egress therefrom available for use by persons using the premises,
and any plant or substance in the premises or, as the case may be, provided
for use there, is or are safe and without risks to health.

Lots of people have reported this, he is not the only person to be injured.

Clear breach of the law.

I actually think that the OP has been incredibly sound about this. The college/uni should be well aware of their duties under the law and have failed to either act on past reports or actually be proactive and identify the area as a potential problem.

I work in the health & safety profession (in education as it goes) and I hate the compo culture. I don't hate it as much as I hate seeing people get injured because organisations don't/won't sort their shit out.

Clear breach of the law.

Not quite as clear as that yossarian. See [i]violenti[/i] and contributory negligence. The perception of risk of a reasonable man etc

Yes the uni has a duty to maintain the carpark (so there is a case to answer) but the OP (it could, and probably would, be argued) could reasonably have forseen the risks (of crossing an uneven surface in the dark) and still chose to carry out his actions. (similar to recklesness in criminal law).

I think you are getting mixed up JP. Regardless of potential contributory negligence, the Uni still had a duty of care to provide adequately lit and maintained facilities which they failed to do - and had failed to address despite previous accidents and complaints stretching over 2 years!

as I said before, clear breach and in my experience of claims of this nature any private claim against the uni would not be considered contestable by the insurance company unless the claimant was going for silly money or was otherwise instructed by the uni. Considering that the uni have more or less admitted liability (judging by the correspondence they have had with the OP) I reckon its unlikely they'd want this to go to court.

Of course all this is separate to an HSE prosecution, I wonder if the uni have reported this under RIDDOR? I suspect not.

From oldgit

I think on balance the claim culture is generally doing more harm than good.

That sir, is a monumental understatement.

Regardless of potential contributory negligence, the Uni still had a duty of care to provide adequately lit and maintained facilities which they failed to do

Had I not said this in

Yes the uni has a duty to maintain the carpark (so there is a case to answer)

There are other things to consider than just 'they've breached duty should the OP sue'. That was the point I was making!

The uni may have signs up alerting people to the uneven surface and poor lighting. (poor practice to just rely on that but fulfills their legal duty).

Much prefer the rigors of Criminal Law, then the one word against another ambiguousness of PI Law. 🙂

They have the following sign:

You'll be clamped if you don't display your parking ticket

In that case them you want free carparking for you and all your uni mates or you'll sue!

[i]Quid pro quo[/i]! 😆

The uni may have signs up alerting people to the uneven surface and poor lighting

yeah our place tried to do that until I pointed out that you couldn't read them at night due to the [b]poor lighting[/b] 😉

JP - I think you'll find that just putting signs up is not enough - what if I can't read english/have a visual impairment/don't see the sign?

Crimminal law is more definite I'll grant you, the personal claims side of things is only ambiguous and hard work if the claimant has you by the bollocks.

anyway Zaskar, if you want a new bike I'd put a claim in against them for less than £3k. Given the circumstances, history and obvious liability of the Uni I reckon that the uni insurers would pay up. As much as anything it would cost them more than that to defend the claim.

I know that you've said that you aren't interested in getting any money out of this and thats laudable, just showing you the options... 🙂

There is also the concept of 'reasonably practicable' written within the law. It may not be reasonably practicable to re-surface and re-light the site in which case signage (pictoral preferably) would be adequate.

I despise this blame and claim culture, its pathetic. I am always suprised to see advacates of it on this forum, considering the fairly risky passtime we all have in common! 😉

Thanks for the advice Yossarian.

I'll only consider legal action if they don't repair the surface, someone else gets hurt (there 5 students claiming according to the Uni forums and car park repair facebook site and if my scan basically states my sportive days are over.

It's interesting to see both sides of the arguement e.g. I should be looking where I'm going and the Uni should keep the grounds in a good state of repair.

New bike? yes it sounds tempting! but I wouldn't be riding for a while and ethically I wouldn't be proud of myself -karma?

I'll wait on my knee to be fixed and see how much recovery I get out of it.

Told my manager that I have a knee brace on its way so I should be in work for my shift (part time Uni job) but don't expect me to lift things without help -and he was fine about it.

There is also the concept of 'reasonably practicable' written within the law. It may not be reasonably practicable to re-surface and re-light the site in which case signage (pictoral preferably) would be adequate.

hmmm, ok I think we're just arguing the toss now. Are you a lawyer by any chance? 🙂 I can't forsee a situation where a university car park could not be suitably surfaced and lit particularly if 5 other people have sustained injuries there. The other option is to shut off the areas causing the trouble but that would have a financial impact...

Oh and I am not an exponent of the blaim/claim culture believe me. A good part of my working day is taken up with preparing defences against chancers who do precisely that. I have one individual trying to claim against us at present who had an 'accident' in a lift 3 years ago, didn't report it at the time, didn't take any time off and has recently been invloved in a car accident whilst on holiday. She's now claiming against us for lower back injuries. Its a pathetic, purile attempt to make a bit of money on the side and will be kicked into touch but I still have to gather the evidence and write up the reports - PITA

zaskar- it sounds like your head is screwed on the right way round and the law is there to protect you and ensure you are reasonably protected from the acts or omissions of others. My comment about the new bike was kind of in jest but don't be a martyr if the injury you have has a long term effect on you.

hope you heal up soon

Are you a lawyer by any chance?

I despise this blame and claim culture, its pathetic. I am always suprised to see advacates of it on this forum, considering the fairly risky passtime we all have in common!

Never suffered an injury that's someone else's fault I take it?

Oh and that's "advocates".

Much prefer the rigors of Criminal Law, then the one word against another ambiguousness of PI Law

WTF? Like evidence has no bearing on Criminal law but is derminative of PI claims?

Degree in Criminal Law but [i]not a practicing lawyer

Ah, now I understand...

Drac wrote

I've worked for the NHS for 20 years now never been told to cut corners

Drac is right - the corners are cut for us by those much higher up 😉

I've tore something in my knee walking on the loose gravel/pot holes in the dark on the Uni car park. My foot gave way as the surfaceis loose and sandy/gravel.

I slipped opening my car door as the floor surface broke apart.

Apart from the obvious discrepancy in those statements, which I'm sure PaulMc would have a field day with in his day job, what sort of 'floor' just gives way? Sand and gravel tends to be a pretty solid surface and doesn't generally 'break apart'. Do you weigh 20 tons in your walking boots ?

I'm really trying not to be cynical here but how on earth do you do that much damage while, according to one of your statements, opening a car door.

Was referring to the standards of proof required Cynic-al.

Stick to the lower standards of civil law, it'll be easier to argue your point...

Oh and that's "advocates"

Never suffered an injury that's someone else's fault I take it?

Have we gone past the MTFU stage yet? 😛

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/anybody-sued-a-pedestrian

(Hand-grenade into thread)

Thanks Hora,

Your efforts to defame me with your pettyness only show your true character.

If you wish to aim your crap at me please go ahead.

I was only seekign advice of the forum. Which you wish to turn into pettyness.

Thanks.

Holy Thread Resurrection!

LOL thanks to Hora.

This was sorted out ages ago, Uni fixed the car park as I wasn't only one injured but I didn't claim.

Wish I did as other people did. Just greatful I recovered.