[Closed] Trying to settle an argument

During one of my (many) discussions with him he argues that the Americans would have been really keen to have shown off with pics taken after the event from the Earth showing the landing site on the Moon for all to see - so why haven't they?

Conversely, where are the pics taken from Earth demonstrating that there is nothing there??

GrahamS - the Chinese didn't put their first man in space until about 5 years ago. So they wouldn't have been any wiser than anyone else. The Soviets on the other hand, would have know exactly what the Yanks were up to.

I assume Rudeboy's on a windup? But just in case, and it's already been said but it got ignored, you never see the flag move once except when the astronaut's moving it himself. (there's a reason conspiracy theorist videos always stop before he steps away from the flag) The reason it doesn't flop down is that the flag wasn't just loose cloth- it's stiffened along the top edge, so it acts more like a sheet of cardboard than cloth. It doesn't move at all like a flag in the wind. Of all the moon conspiracy b******t, this is the weakest.

As for being able to jump higher- yes, they could jump higher, they're just choosing not to for the same reason that we don't constantly jump around here.

GrahamS - the Chinese didn't put their first man in space until about 5 years ago. So they wouldn't have been any wiser than anyone else.

they still have telescopes, sattelites, scientists and spies.

Tyger: even if it were possible to take the pic, would it make any difference at all to what your
friend believes? A grainy grey image of the top of a lunar rover surrounded by some rocks and craters. Could be the moon. Could be Nevada. Could be Photoshop.

Subsequent lunar probe missions could take pics. But why would the conspiracy guys believe them?

The reason it doesn't flop down is that the flag wasn't just loose cloth- it's stiffened along the top edge

It had a stick in it to keep it straight. See here.

[img] [/img]

Obviously they could be sure it would be windy enough on the moon.

here are NASA photos of the landing sites from Earth telescopes:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11site.html

they also have images from SMART which was a European moon surveyor mission.

Somehow I doubt these will convince him tho. I suspect nothing will.

You may also enjoy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations
and the various links therein.

I must say i always wondered why you couldn't see it through one of those satalite spy camera's that are supposed to be able to read a news paper from orbit or some such (have they got google moon yet?) plus all the tyre marks from all that hooning? It's not as if when they parked it up they'd say, look lads, it's a 2 seater convertable, and the most expensive care ever made, it doesn't even have an alarm, lets at least hide it behind that pile of rocks over there! NO, they'd of parked it next to the 'lander' (how that thing would ever get off again is beyond me!) so it should be easy to spot, why isn't it? Does seem a little odd. Also can anyone tell me how they got the car there, this thing doesn't even have a toe hitch - look!

[img] [/img]

have they got google moon yet?

[url= http://www.google.com/moon/ ]Yes[/url]

GrahamS - I got excited for a minute about the link to the NASA pics but if anything it compounds his theory as your can't see anything!!!

Anyone remember a book and film called Capricorn One written by Ken Follett (under the name Peter Hyams)?

Given other things that they have faked (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident ) it wouldn't be a massive surprise. Nobody here knows enough about it to really have an informed opinion - it's just to what extent you believe what you are told really.

I imagine it probably is genuine footage, but who knows.

I must say i always wondered why you couldn't see it through one of those satalite spy camera's that are supposed to be able to read a news paper from orbit or some such

Funnily enough they tend to place those spy satellites around Earth, not the moon! They are in [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Earth_orbit ]low earth orbit[/url], most are just a few hundred km above us. The moon, by contrast, is 384,000 km away.

Even Hubble doesn't come close to having a large enough telescope to resolve an image of the rover - never mind the frickin tyre marks! 🙄

I would have thought that the most dodgy part of the whole moon landing attempt would be the Saturn Five lift off - the largest machine ever made by man and what was basically a huge bomb. If the yanks wanted a contingency plan then how did they cover that one possibly going wrong ? Show faked footage "live" of a previous successfully launch ? What about all the people on Earth who witnessed its takeoff, all government stooges ?

Why don't we go back to the moon and mine all the elements for fuel?cos it will cost too much!

zaskar: My God you're right. He seems an entirely credible witness given the amazing effects in his own film. Those flashes of light could only possible be reflections off the wires.

Look at this secret photo smuggled out of NASA:
[img] [/img]

You can clearly see that same wire coming out the top of Aldrin's backpack. 🙄

Don't believe everything you read. It could be real it could be fake.

Nobody really knows. I hope it's not fake but it wouldn't be the first time the Governments have lied.

Weapons of mass distruction had loads of ppl calling for us to attack Iraq with bugger all there. 🙄

Nobody really knows

Well aside from all the evidence like the reflectors that have been place on the moon, oh and the analysis of the moon rocks by scientists around the work that show that they could only have come from somewhere other than the earth (to manufacture such rocks on the earth would have taken a project similar to the manhatten project!), yeah you're right, nobody [i]really[/i] knows.

By the way this

Weapons of mass distruction had loads of ppl calling for us to attack Iraq with bugger all there

Yes but none of that proves that [b]the original footage[/b] of the moon landing was genuine.

What if they knew that their programme was behind the Russians and couldn't lose face, so faked the landing a few years before they were actually able to go there? 😛

Don't believe everything you read.

I don't. I am generally as sceptical as the next man. But there is a enormous crapload of evidence that we went to the moon and only a minuscule amount of inconclusive nonsense that we didn't (none of which which stands up to peer review).

Nobody really knows.

400,000 people worked on the Apollo 11 project, not to mention the subsequent landings. Further tens of thousands of scientists across the world have had the opportunity to study the data gathered and examine the 371kg of rock recovered from the moon.

it wouldn't be the first time the Governments have lied.

True. But this would be a hoax on a scale that would be a million times more complex and would require several magnitudes more people to be complicit than say the Gulf of Tonkin or WMDs (which were pretty quickly shown to be false).

It [i]might[/i] just be possible to pull that off once. But six times??

What if they knew that their programme was behind the Russians and couldn't lose face, so faked the landing a few years before they were actually able to go there?

Right, so where did Apollo 11 really go then? And why did no one notice when the launched the "real mission"? 🙄

Or what if they did really go to the moon, but they didn't get any decent footage, so faked that? 🙂

Well given the political situation at the time I'm guessing that the Soviets would be watching and would have been the first to point out that the landing were fake, something that never happened, or are you going to argue that the Soviets were complicit in the conspiracy as well?

Some people are determined to religiously believe that the landing were faked and no amount of evidence to the contrary will persuade them.

Nah, tbh I am reasonably happy that the landing and footage was genuine, but some people are seemingly happy to always accept the official version of events about everything without question, and anyone who does question any of it must be a deluded conspiracy theorist or nutter (though there are lots of nutters out there).

The CIA etc have declassified lots of documents showing a history of large scale deceptions and conspiracies which would be dismissed as crazy nonsense if they weren't official records.

Theres this that proves we COULD easily land on the moon.
[img] [/img]

But as mentioned above, it would be far far too big a thing to hoax, and a little pointless. Plus someone would have VAST reserves of tax dollars somewhere 😀

As some of the Astronauts have said, if they faked it why did they bother going back [b]six[/b] times?

+1 for GrahamS, and RudeBoy is surely joking. Holding up the Gulf of Tonkin thing as an argument for it all being faked is really an argument for the opposite view, becauase it just shows that it will eventually (or pretty quickly) come out. It's just not possible for that many people to be involved in a hoax that you'd expect to last more than 5 mins.

Just like arguments against evolution, most arguments for a hoax moon landing just show the naysayers don't know what they're talking about.

As for being able to jump higher- yes, they could jump higher, they're just choosing not to for the same reason that we don't constantly jump around here.

and also because if they fall over and tear or damage their suits then they die!

some people are seemingly happy to always accept the official version of events about everything without question, and anyone who does question any of it must be a deluded conspiracy theorist or nutter (though there are lots of nutters out there)

There's questioning (which is fine) and there's talking rubbish (the "but the flag's moving!" stuff, which isn't). I don't think anyone has anything against questioning the official version but that's not to say that common sense and objective thinking need to go out the window.

The whole WMD/ Iraq thing prooves that the moon landings took place

If the US was this conspiracy machine people like to think it is they would have planted WMDs and "got away with it" - they didn't, no weapons were found and we all realised they were full of it.

why didn't they fake it - becuase there was no way they would have got away with it - just like they would have never got away with faking the moon landings

all conspiracy theories are clearly nonsense when you think about the planning and manpower which would have been required to pull them off - an army of "evil project managers". People talk - someone would have done so by now

Conspiracy theories provide a fun argument in the pub but some of you people really need to grow up

Google moon FTW!

😀

There we go.

Knew I'd forgotten something.

all conspiracy theories are clearly nonsense when you think about the planning and manpower which would have been required to pull them off

Yes, all conspiracy theories are nonsense - apart from the ones that have been proven to be true.

Well said tim.

Folk just like to believe in conspiracy theories because it gives them a thrill that they are "in on it" and that they are too intelligent to be fooled by "the man" like all those other sheep.

It is pure egotism and self-delusion.

apart from the ones that have been proven to be true

Out of nothing more than idle curiosity, what conspiracy theories have been proven to be true?

I've already mentioned one.

One conspiracy uncovered therefore all conspiracies must be true?
Should we list all the things that have been claimed to have happened that did those that diod not and see which list is the largst?
Whilst it is possible that there is a mass conspiracy to fake this (like it is possible there is a God) all the evidence points to there being no conspiracy or God.
You can’t prove negatives is the basic problem here but you should have some sort of BS filter or else you will believe any old cr@p.

The reason it doesn't flop down is that the flag wasn't just loose cloth- it's stiffened along the top edge

i'll give you that. But it still flaps about pretty freely, and ythere's other footage that shows it moving, although I can't be arsed looking for it.

I KNEW this would get some of you going! 😀 Seems there are plenty of people all to eager to debunk the 'conspiracy theories'; if you're sooo convinced yourselves, why are you going to such lengths arguing the case?

Thing is; we would all like to believe that Man landed on the Moon. What a fantastic adventure!

But the truth is; none of youse can prove Man did land on the moon, and that these vids we see are genuine. Get them into some video editing software, and speed them up slightly. Then notice how everything looks like it does in real life, down on Earth. And one of the first things you'd do, in 1/6th gravity, is jump about a lot! And you'd film it! Ripping their suits? There's other stuff of astronauts falling over, so I don't think that was as big a concern as you might think. They were multi-layered anyway. Of course, jumping cooduv also been faked, with wires and that...

What's inertesting, is that any suggestion that the landings may have been faked, is met with loud shouts of 'conspiracy theorist!' Why are you shouting so loud, if you have nowt to fear/hide?

I'll reiterate; I never said that Mankind has never set foot on the Moon. Just that there is the possibility of the footage of the landings being fake. To protect American pride. The Soviets had chalked up all the other Space firsts; the Yanks needed a big score, to stay in the game.

As for 'hundreds of thousands of people' needing to be complicit in any 'conspiracy'; bollocks. Only a few people would really have needed to know. It's relatively easy to dupe large numbers of people. It wooduv been pretty easy to get the astronauts out of any rocket, prior to lunch, as only a handful of people had access to anywhere near the rocket itself. So, maybe something was fired into Space, maybe something did land on't Moon. But quite a few of the images we've been allowed to see, are fake. Part of a publicity stunt. If they did actually land there, which is not completely iplausible, then we probbly din't actually see it.

As for the ridiculous comment about 'WMDS/Iraq- proof no conspiracy'; what you wibbling on about? The Yanks were showing off footage of loads of 'suspected' WMD sites long before the invasion, even though Hans Blixt had said there was nowt there! Come on, get yer head out of the sand!

US: 'There are WMDS in Iraq'
HB: 'Erm, well, actually...'
US: YES THERE ARE LOOK AT THESE EXCITING PICTURES WE'VE GOT OF THEM PROVING THEY ARE BEING PRODUCED'
HB: 'No, hang on...'
US: 'SHOCK AND AWE! IN WE GO! is not THIS EXCITING EVERYONE? WE'RE DOING IT FOR YOU, YOU KNOW. The economy? Oh, don't worry about that... WE WENT TO THE MOON YOU KNOW!'

Anyway; creates a good debate, this one, eh? 😉

Er... I wasn't claiming that that meant all conspiracy theories are true, just that you shouldn't unquestioningly accept the official version of events for everything

Check out the CIAs official records for their actions in places like Chile, Guatemala etc for some more. These were all things that were strenuously denied at the time and the people claiming them were dismissed as nutters and commie stooges etc.

Simon Ralli to the thread please, Simon Ralli to the thread.

Rudeboy needs an ally to support his increasingly desperate attempts to persuade others of the "conspiracy"...

Blimey, someone with thier own mind at last! Nice one Grumm; I'm glad [i]someone[/i] gets it.. 🙄

Anyone remember a book and film called Capricorn One written by Ken Follett (under the name Peter Hyams)?

RB... what actual evidence do you have that '[i]quite a few of the images we've been allowed to see, are fake[/i]'? Maybe it is just something that you 'know'? Or did someone on the internet tell you? 😀