[Closed] "Trains are a rich man's toy"

elfin, if you had a funeral to go to and you tried to book the day before, I'll bet you would have paid well over the odds, ie waaaay more than it actually costs the train operator to get you there. That's how your ticket was so reasonably priced.
Don't get me wrong, I love trains and am putting the whole family on one to that there London in a few weeks rather than drive, but the ticket pricing nowadays favours the organised and punishes the desperate and car-less. 🙁

ticket pricing nowadays favours the organised and punishes the desperate and car-less.

I am car-less yet I do not feel 'punished'. 😐

Most folk I know use the train for longer journeys anyway, so that's on top of the thousands of pounds a year they pay to run a car. Plus, no-one's mentioned such things as Congestion Charge or Residents Parking Permits yet. No-one I know who owns a car and works in London drives to work, as it's far too spensive and slow compared to Public Transport. I can get into the centre of town in less than half an hour. By car from here, in Rush Hour, would take forever.

Plus, right, what about pasties and stuff from motorway services? Or do you take a packed lunch?

How long it is take for drive car to North Wales from central London?(I know; it's five or six hours at least. problem on't motorway, and it could take several days)?

And in London; Oyster Card return journey is only about four pounds forty. No need for to pay CC or parking. 😀

I am car-less yet I do not feel 'punished'.

yeah, but you live in London! Tube/dlr/network southeast does not suffer from the daft pricing like the rest of the country's trains do, so it makes sense to lose the car if you live in London. I would if I did.

How many train journeys a year don't happen and become car journeys because you only know you need to go there at a couple of days notice, and so you take your car instead because they want a comedy three figure sum for £30's worth of fuel?

Now, means-tested train travel, that really [b]would[/b] be ace!

oh, and everyone knows the thinking man's driving snack is not a service station ginsters, but your own thermos of boiling water and a pre-bought doner flavour pot noodle. 😀

yeah, but you live in London!

S'probbly why I don't feel punished. Instead, I feel [i]privileged[/i]. 🙂

I accept not everyone is so fortunate. 😐

aye, cultural desert here, but we can still get doner pot noodle in Devon, and the trails are quite nice.

I am car-less yet I do not feel 'punished'.

You certainly look like you've had a life of being punished

I drive into London every day in my van. Work in Canary Wharf so its 80 miles each way.

Either move closer to work, or get a job nearer home and stop clogging our lungs up with your fumes please. Thanks. Or do you mind if I set up some massive diesel generators outside your house?

And is it as quick a journey when the M25 is (as is often the case) snarled up? Thought not.

What's the season ticket price for your journey?

I'm waiting for when Red Ken (cha cha cha!) gets back in, and extends the CC to the whole of London...

You certainly look like you've had a life of being punished

😮

Well by that reckoning, you've bin banged up in a dungeon all your life...

I accept not everyone is so fortunate.

... I had to go to a meeting in London a couple of years ago, 9am London bridge. Caught the train from Cheltenham, got a seat fine, got to paddington, it was horrific, i really don't like feeling like you are being shoe horned into a tube train.

The only good thing, Work payed.

Then on the way back standing all the way to Swindon, where the connection was cancelled. so stuck in swindon for a couple of hours!!!!!!

London might have things i like, the british museum, Kew, etc, i would never live there. To far from the things i want out of life, fresh air and countryside.

Wunundred! 😀

... I had to go to a meeting in London a couple of years ago, 9am London bridge. Caught the train from Cheltenham, got a seat fine, got to paddington, it was horrific, i really don't like feeling like you are being shoe horned into a tube train.

Erm, get a Brompton, or use a hire bike....

Then on the way back standing all the way to Swindon, where the connection was cancelled. so stuck in swindon for a couple of hours!!!!!!

That's the price you must pay for living in wherever it is.

London might have things i like, the british museum, Kew, etc, i would never live there. To far from the things i want out of life, fresh air and countryside.

I'm a twenty-five minute easy bike ride from a large forest, with trees, grass, muntjac deer and even cahs.

Horses for courses anyway. I prefer London to t'countryside. Countryside's where I go if I want to dump an old motor or fridge.

Well by that reckoning, you've bin banged up in a dungeon all your life..

That's not fair, they were just misunderstood slavers

The problem is lack of space on the tracks, short paltforms and lack of any national planning, lots of different companies run the trains, a few different companies own the trains, and network rail own and run the tracks and some stations.

We need renationalisation, into one cohesive company, that has the total control over track the trains and the stations, then a massive investment in track and signalling, along with bringing mothballed stock back into service, platform lengthening for longer trains would help,to run one train insted of 2 with a headway inbetween blocking the tracks, along with longer siding to store them when not being used.

As an example we could have 12 coach trains running everywhere in rush hour, and 4 coach trains running at other times,the problem being the cost of a new powered coach, as in the new DMU,S, the electric emus, have shared power, that takes power from one coach and feeds it down the train to the other coach motors, sadly electrification doesnt cover the whole country.

Then we have the primitive way of working where everyone starts at 09.00 am and works till 5.00 pm, whats wrong with flexi time, start anytime and work your hours, unles youre in some production environmnet,or part of a team eg working with the public who need you to be there at certain times.

Doing away wuith the above would alleviate the rush hours.

Elfinsafety - when did the borris bikes start? note i did say a meeting a couple of years ago, and does it really make sense to buy a Brompton for one meeting in London?

That only deals with a little bit of the journey though.

Since then i have discovered a solution, drive to west london and then catch the tube from there, get a seat and a bit more room. Its Cheaper and more pleasant than the whole london by train thing.

Fair enough. But if it was just the once, then suck it up and be thankful you don't have to do it every day, eh?

Its Cheaper

What about the cost to the environment? Increase in childhood asthma in areas close to main arterial road routes?

Cheaper for you, maybe.

Fair enough. But if it was just the once, then suck it up and be thankful you don't have to do it every day, eh?

Oh i am grateful i don't have to do it everyday, in fact i find it hard to understand why anyone would?

Its Cheaper
What about the cost to the environment? Increase in childhood asthma in areas close to main arterial road routes?

Cheaper for you, maybe.

Austerity were all in it together..... More seriously, it is cheaper in cash terms, which when you consider the cost of train tickets isn't actually that hard. Couple of years back caught a train in that cheap country Switzerland, Geneva to Verbier, the last bit was a bus, travelling along the lake shore past Lausanne, Montreux and into the mountains, A very nice way to spend a few hours, and all the huge sum of 100CHF return. This is of course the turn up undercounted fair. Train travel is to expensive in the UK.

Anyway back on topic, i only have so much money, so i have to spend it in the most cost effective way.

WTF, its HIS fault its so expensive!

in any case, its full up even at the expensive prices, so the cost isn't going to come down without additional capacity.

And what happens when they try and build more railways? NIMBY's start complaining the trains will "ruin the countryside" and make too much noise. What more than a 3 lane motorway and aeroplanes from heathrow roaring overhead? sheez.. And now Philip Hammond is agreeing with them!

we're all literally doomed.

How come everyone here who won't accept that trains are overpriced is able to plan their movements so far in advance? I needed to get down to Devon last week unexpectedly from Manchester.

Drive: 4.5 hours each way at 50mpg, traffic, depreciation, tyres etc. I cost my car at 45p/mile to run so realistically, £250 for the round trip.

Train: I needed to be there on specific days. Booking the day before would be FIVE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY POUNDS. I thought I'd done it wrong and had to call someone else to check the figures. That's not even an open return. And that's 5 hours 10 minutes, not counting transit time from city centre destination.

Plane: £57 each way including taxes. Taxi at one end added about £30. 55 minutes chock to chock, and being domestic was able to turn up at the airport 25 minutes before departure and leg it through security.

Flaperon - Member

How come everyone here who won't accept that trains are overpriced is able to plan their movements so far in advance?

Don't know. Why is it that people who think they're ridiculously expensive always base that on bad experiences caused by short-notice journeys?

Don't know. Why is it that people who think they're ridiculously expensive always base that on bad experiences caused by short-notice journeys?

The only fair i care about is the fair i have to pay at the ticket office when i turn up to travel. I can't guarantee what time i will get to the station, i can't guarantee what time i will be coming back. If i can i will try and travel off peak but that is about the only detail i have real control over.

I struggle with long sentences, but

Trains are too expensive.

End of.

They are full, aren't they? So they can't be too expensive.

Depending on your point of view of course.

Don't know. Why is it that people who think they're ridiculously expensive always base that on bad experiences caused by short-notice journeys?

You work for my local council, don't you?

Ive recently started commuting Sheffield > Leeds, weighed up a few options namely driving (and parking in central city leeds) vs renting a central flat vs the train.

The train won hands down, £51.30 per week standard or £81.10 first class per week. Thankfully I travel outside of the busiest times so it equates to 40 minutes of relaxation, or its an additional few hours each day I can spend productively (unless I splurge for first class and watch sky sports on the laptop instead 🙂 )

Id be spending more than that on fuel alone ...

I paid £84 to get to an interview in London a couple of weeks ago. Not a bad trip, busy on the way home tho. Last week I paid £16 to get to Bath which took half as long and was a lovely relaxing experience.

You win some, you lose some.

Oh and for all those who moan about delays on the rail network - never been stuck in traffic on the M4 then?

I can't complain, the only train journey I ever make is Lichfield (Staffordshire) to London Euston, which always costs less than £20 return and takes less than two hours.

Either move closer to work, or get a job nearer home and stop clogging our lungs up with your fumes please. Thanks. Or do you mind if I set up some massive diesel generators outside your house?

And is it as quick a journey when the M25 is (as is often the case) snarled up? Thought not.

What's the season ticket price for your journey?

You really are a complete arse aren't you. Tell you what you pompous little prick, why don't you pay my mortgage, my bills and put food in my kids mouths and I'll get a job locally so I don't have to travel. Or failing that, I'll move to London where my family has a lesser quality of life and I can be as self-righteous as you.

The M25 can be as blocked as it likes, I come in on the A12 and even when its blocked it's still a quicker journey than getting the train/tube. And how many times has the Jubilee line been in a mess this summer? Again, you're talking about something you know NOTHING about.

I work in London three times a week max and the days I do it aren't always the same. Therefore its almost impossible to plan ahead and paying for a season ticket is a false economy.

**** it I don't know why I'm even bothering. You're a waste of bandwidth, I'm off to bed.

mrmo - Member

The only fair i care about is the fair i have to pay at the ticket office when i turn up to travel.

Yes, you said that earlier. And it's nice that you highlight your narrowmindedness on the issue so clearly 😉 You don't care about the good fares, only the bad, fair enough but it doesn't mean the bad fares are the only ones that exist.

Don't know. Why is it that people who think they're ridiculously expensive always base that on bad experiences caused by short-notice journeys?

dunno - Its like people always overstate how expensive it is and how long it takes - and underestimate both for their cars. Several examples on this thread

Northwind, the only times i have ever tried to get the cheap fares they have not been available, i now longer bother. I will say it again, i want decent turn up fares, a decent fare structure. and a system that recognises i have a car as well*. I learnt to drive at the age of 33 because i had had enough of a train and bus system that was frankly crap.

*By that i mean that the fare for the train and the fixed costs for running a car and the bus connections need to be considered. call it an integrated transport system.

Yes, you said that earlier. And it's nice that you highlight your narrowmindedness on the issue so clearly You don't care about the good fares, only the bad, fair enough but it doesn't mean the bad fares are the only ones that exist.

Ahh... I see, a public transport system for the rich at peak times, for the rich at short notice, and for the poor if they're willing to book and commit to other plans a looooooooong time in advance.

You tell me why it shouldn't just be charged per mile, like nearly every other European country? Why are the fares incredibly complicated? Why is it cheaper in many cases to buy a ticket for a longer journey and get off early?

And don't just come back with "you're doing it wrong."

You tell me why it shouldn't just be charged per mile, like nearly every other European country?

Whether yield management has to go so far as to mean that there is practically no-one that understands how to consistently get the most advantageous fare for a journey is a different question...

I see, a public transport system for the [s]rich[/s][b] business traveller not paying his own fare[/b] at peak times

FTFY.

So at peak times going to London, the trains are rammed. And you want to reduce the price to make it appeal to even more people?

The reason that the fares are the way they are is because there is nothing like enough capacity in the network. Personally I'd like to see a massive programme of new railway building followed by a subsidised planned fare structure.

But who's gonna vote for that?

The rolling stock used by the line I'd use (god knows what its now called, used to be 'One') is ancient, cramped, smelly and just generally disgusting. I certainly wouldn't mind paying a bit more if it meant clean trains with plenty of room. However, currently if you get on any train from Ipswich before 8am its standing room only for an hour and ten, which is frankly rubbish.

On the flip side a mate of mine uses Virgin and can't praise them enough....

Personally I'd like to see a massive programme of new railway building followed by a subsidised planned fare structure.

But who's gonna vote for that?

Me! Me!

I'd rather see the £4.6bn for HS2 spent on making my trains less crap and less expensive. I'd even forgive the lack of a seat and punctuality issues if they were cheap. My local MP doesn't agree though. He wouldn't, he's rubbish.

I'd rather see the £4.6bn for HS2 spent on making my trains less crap and less expensive

HS2 will further cement the idea that the trains are not a aimed at anyone other than business customers, they seem to be hellbent on maintaining and increasing the exclusivity

HS2 will further cement the idea that the trains are not a aimed at anyone other than business customers, they seem to be hellbent on maintaining and increasing the exclusivity

I'd rather see the £4.6bn for HS2 spent on making my trains less crap and less expensive

What I am talking about would make £4.6bn look like peanuts. If only we had a comprehensive train network we could use that went to lots of small towns.. oh wait.. we used to have one of those...

What I am talking about would make £4.6bn look like peanuts. If only we had a comprehensive train network we could use that went to lots of small towns.. oh wait.. we used to have one of those...

If only we had politicians with sense and foresight who wanted the best for the travelling public, instead of trying to dump an expensive solution looking for a problem on us instead.

If only we could get someone other than politicians to look after it. Maybe someone whose job didn't depend on pulling the wool over people's eyes for short periods of time.

If only we had politicians with sense and foresight who wanted the best for the travelling public, instead of trying to dump an expensive solution looking for a problem on us instead.

Rich friends and party donations from big business beats 'best for public' any day, regardless of whether you are blue or red flavour. 🙁 Witness health reform, unbelievable pressure from rich private enterprise to let them in on it. Whether or not it is a better use of public money is completely and utterly immaterial, the question is how to dress it up so that Tory voters swallow it.

I'd rather politicians have responsibility for the rail network than a private company. The parent company of Southeastern Trains made over £50m in profit for 09/10 alone, which is cash that would go a long way to improving services.

At least you can vote a politician out of office every five years. We're stuck with Southeastern, in spite of the fact that most people hate them.

and does it really make sense to buy a Brompton for one meeting in London?

If you use Guildford station you can hire a Brompton by the day. They have a brompton vending machine on the station. Only a recent addition though..

also if you are a SWT season ticket holder you can lease one for as little as £2 a week.

Flaperon - Member

You tell me why it shouldn't just be charged per mile, like nearly every other European country? Why are the fares incredibly complicated? Why is it cheaper in many cases to buy a ticket for a longer journey and get off early?

And don't just come back with "you're doing it wrong."

Well... You [i]are[/i] doing it wrong! But I totally agree, the fares are too complicated, and it's ridiculous that I can often buy a fare from London to Glasgow for less than a fare from London to Edinburgh, on a train that PASSES THROUGH EDINBURGH ON THE WAY TO ****ING GLASGOW.

There's a lot that should be improved about our trains- it's possible to hold an opinion somewhere inbetween the 2 extremes. But right now we have a flawed but usable system that could be a lot better or a lot worse.

And if these business customers are turning in a profit, the problem is where?

The problem is the profit. Going to shareholders. Public transport needs to be "unprivatised" and not for profit. Those business customers should be working to turn in a profit for their respective companies, aided and abetted by a relatively cheap transport system, because at the moment high rail fares can only damage the economy.

[i]And if these business customers are turning in a profit, the problem is where? [/i]

if that is the case they should have no problem funding it without help from the tax payer.

I work for a TOC (Train Operating Company). You'd be surprised at how commonly viewed "Money making TOCs" are actually doing all they can to try and provide a better service for you as the customer. The reality is that Government and Government owned organisations (mentioning no names but they own the track and much of the infrastucture) are applying negative force in what the TOCs try to do to try and stop that(perhaps due to careless/lack of thought rather than malicious intent.