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How do you know that Zulu?
He had an illegally held gun - therefore, he was a real, identifiable threat.
All depends really doesn't it. To some extent you're right but at the moment, there's clearly a lot of lies/mistruths being told on all sides to fit the story they want so until we know for sure, it's all just conjecture.
Otherwise, I can refute your suggestion by saying that maybe the gun was in a locked box in the minicab that he had no access to and it only fell out once the bloke was shot and the bullet blew open the box.
there's clearly a lot of lies/mistruths being told on all sides
All we really know for sure is that "TJ and Cynic-al will have at least one constructive disagreement before August is out"
So if I say "I predict TJ and Cynic-al will have at least one lover's tiff before August is out" I can be a visionary too?
Shouldn't really but that is quite funny in an absurd way, TJ
That reminds me:
Hackney, currently...
Zulu-Eleven - MemberHe had an illegally held gun - therefore, he was a real, identifiable threat.
Doesn't carry the death sentence last time I looked. A gun isn't a threat unless it's used. Maybe the shooting was justified, maybe not but "He had a gun therefore it was completely fine to shoot him" doesn't wash.
Interesting quote in an earlier linked article.
A police source said: "I was told he was a major player and well known to the police in Tottenham. He was certainly not a sideshow."You are not going to waste a surveillance team, Trident team and CO19 armed team on someone who is on the periphery. We do not have those kind of resources."
Basically seems that the police logic is, we shoot bad guys, we shot Duggan, therefore Duggan is a bad guy
Well Clubber, its always possible that in fact he was a Firearms certificate holder, with one of the very small numbers of certificates issued for pistols, for dispatch of wounded animals and pests.
Maybe he was a professional pest controller? On his way (in a minicab), to dispatch a deer that had been hit on the road, or a fox in a trap - you never know, its possible innit?
A police source said: "I was told he was a major player and well known to the police in Tottenham. He was certainly not a sideshow
That reads to me that they found a policeman who has a mate who works in Tottenham, got a tiny bit of info about who was involved and is making random guesses. Totally pointless quote and shoddy journalism.
Exactly. Thanks for making my point, Z11.
Zulu - or maybe the gun belonged to the driver, had been left in the cab, was a replica, belonged to someone else all together?
If I was in a cab and I found myself with police guns trained on me I think I would have my arms firmly in the air, not grabbing for a gun (real or replica) that just happened to be left in the cab and proceeding to wave it around. In a sock.
so how do you know thats what happened MF? He waved the gun around did he?
Any evidence that he waved the gun around?
TJ, I was using comic effect.
Which doesn't work on you of course.
🙄
all kicking off in Hackney
my local Sainsbury's has closed just in case
tension in Lewisham
.
I'm going to stock up on spam and nylons
tin foil hat at the ready
'kin chavs are ransacking a sports shop in Hackney now. If i was in charge the snipers would be out on the roof tops as i type. Would sort the rioting and the over crowding issues out. Two birds, one stone
Oh it was funny, right
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Actually I think if it was you mf, you'd have put your hands up and shouted 'I HAVE TWINS YOU KNOW'
Well I was having a go at lowering the tone.
😐
Actually I think if it was you mf, you'd have put your hands up and shouted 'I HAVE TWINS YOU KNOW'
8)
I also reckon the police would shout back 'yeah we f@?£ing know!!'
🙂
[url= http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/07/7292281-the-sad-truth-behind-london-riot ]MSNBC's take on it[/url]
...here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"
The TV reporter from Britain's ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. "Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you."
Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.
I've not read the previous nine pages of squabbling however I've just seen it kicking off in 'that London' again and seeing the brazen way those scrotes are behaving I'd be surprised if there aren't more serious injuries or death. The unfortunate thing is that if one of the rioters is killed the police will be blamed, however if a policeman is killed the rioters will be boasting about it. I'm not condoning there actions of the police, but they are in a bit of a no win position!
Lewisham too now.
its ok theresa may has now said that violence is unnaceptable, thatll sort them right out
this article was written 9 days ago
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/29/young-people-gangs-youth-clubs-close ]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/29/young-people-gangs-youth-clubs-close [/url]
"The young people in Tottenham, they are not so much a community within a community, they are a community beyond the community, with their own rules, their own codes, their own hierarchy," said Symeon Brown, 22, who helped run a campaign to prevent the cuts in Haringey. "How do you create a ghetto? By taking away the very services that people depend upon to live, to better themselves."Professor John Pitts, who has researched gang behaviour for more than 40 years, says the "annihilation" of youth services, coupled with academies likely to favour middle-class students over disadvantaged children, could further disconnect young people from society and result in more entrenched gangs.
"Services are not just being taken away from young people, they are being taken from poor young people," he said.
"At a simple level that could mean an increase in antisocial behaviour and vandalism. In the longer term, if you withdraw state protection then there will be ever greater reliance on the groupings that emerge in that vacuum."
I know that if I lived somewhere where these imported scrotes were trashing the place I'd take great delight in sitting in an upstairs darkened room by an open window with one of these:
[img] 
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and a big bag of these:
[img] 
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Scumbags.
🙄CountZero - Member......... imported scrotes............
Imported from where? By whom?
I know that if I lived somewhere where these imported scrotes
Racist... I think you'll find the majority (particularly those currently in action tonight) are your average estate ned out for mischief, 'British Bred' through and through and supporters of the Engurland Soccer team too no doubt...
I read the term 'imported scrotes' as meaning the scum that come from outside the area where the looting is, spurred on by things such as:
Everyone in edmonton enfield woodgreen everywhere in north link up at enfield town station 4 o clock sharp!!!! Start leaving ur yards n linking up with you ****. Guck da feds, bring your ballys and your bags trollys, cars vans, hammers the lot!! Keep sending this around to bare man, make sure no snitch boys get dis!!! What ever ends your from put your ballys on link up and cause havic, just rob everything. Police can't stop it. Dead the fires though!! Rebroadcast!!!!!"
Northwind - MemberZulu-Eleven - Member
He had an illegally held gun - therefore, he was a real, identifiable threat.
Doesn't carry the death sentence last time I looked. [b]A gun isn't a threat unless it's used[/b]. Maybe the shooting was justified, maybe not but "He had a gun therefore it was completely fine to shoot him" doesn't wash.
sorry, but balls.
if I was pointing a gun at your head, is that not a threat? or do I need to pull the trigger to make you feel threatened? by that point, you wouldn't feel threatened....you wouldn't be feeling much of anything to be fair
Right, back to more practical matters. I fancy a new telly, which London post code should I go to this evening to pick up a free one?
whilst Hora's mind-dump above is a little reactionary, he's saying what a lot of people are thinking
Yeah, but that's only because a lot of people are ignorant and reactionary keyboard warriors...
Those two patrol cars parked under the railway bridge need moving ASAP before they get set alight and disrupt train travel for weeks.
Whose the bright commander on the ground?
Why haven't they learnt from Tottenham and nipped the riots hard?
Right, back to more practical matters. I fancy a new telly, which London post code should I go to this evening to pick up a free one?
Thinking the same thing meself actually... looks like Hackney might be the place to be, or Dalston, or Lewisham, or Stratford... mischief all over tonight it seems 🙄
morgs - Membersorry, but balls.
if I was pointing a gun at your head, is that not a threat? or do I need to pull the trigger to make you feel threatened? by that point, you wouldn't feel threatened....you wouldn't be feeling much of anything to be fair
Are you actively trying to misunderstand 😕 That would be using it, and as I said it's not a threat when it's not being used. But [i]possession[/i] doesn't justify shooting someone.
Why haven't they learnt from Tottenham and nipped the riots hard?
because they learnt that you shouldn't do that from the G-20 protests.....
Still no evidence that he pointed a gun at anyone, just the assumption that he must be a bad guy because the police shot him, and the police only shoot bad guys.
Fourundred!!!!!!!!!!! 😀
Psychle, forget Stratford etc; cheap tat. Get yerself down to Canary Wharf mate... 😉
You do not get riots without a disaffected population
I read the term 'imported scrotes' as meaning the scum that come from outside the area where the looting is, spurred on by things such as
You think someone advocating sitting at a window and fireing marbles at people with a catapult is making a possible distinction between people from the area and people from round the corner, get real it was a clear racist remark.
Are you actively trying to misunderstand That would be using it, and as I said it's not a threat when it's not being used. But possession doesn't justify shooting someone.
why is that using it? surely using it is pulling the trigger or to a lesser extent 'pistol-whipping' with it???
the fact that he had a gun (and I base this on the [u][i][b]ASSUMPTION[/u][/i][/b] that it was not concealed and in plain sight) is a threat in out culture. If you went to, say, Iraq, where guns are much more common then fine, no threat. But here, on our streets, if I saw someone with a gun, I would view that as a threat regardless of what was being done with it.
ffs get over yourself. I also read it as people imported from other areas of London, not at all racist
You think someone advocating sitting at a window and [b]fireing[/b] ?? marbles at people with a catapult is making a possible distinction between people from the area and people from round the corner, get real it was a clear racist remark.
Well, I respect your opinion.
Even though you are totally wrong.