Seriously, some times the rabid kee-jerk reactions on here (from all sides of the political spectrum on STW) leaves me at a loss for words. Have a read a round subject, form a balanced view. I'm not saying mines right, but when it's so blatantly obvious that all 3 main parties have serious question marks against them it pays to have an open mind..
+10000000000000000000 X A BILLION.
As I see it, there is only one way to solve this inane debate.
A mass fight.
All the Tories v All the Lefties v the yellow ones.
No holds barred, bare fist fight to the death.
Survival of the fittest.
Tories will win though, the lefties will be too out of shape after years of sofa skipping turkey twizzler munching, whereas 'the scum' have been eating all of the protein.
Simples
Agreed Ernie, however we're only on page 2. Could this be the onset of political debate fatigue?!
Tonyd, thanks!
If I was to get political,however, I'd mention that NuLabour set the Forces up for the fall, for the ConDems to deliver the killer blow!
All as bad as each other BUT: the Forces' own selected who was to go and when, so no politics there! As always, I'm sure it's way more complex than it looks, with certain trades needing to be balanced, insufficient volunteers from vulnerable trades etc. And the swinging axe that was "you WILL make the necessary savings!"
Bad times for many, not just the mil I'm
sad to say.
Well the Tories on here don't appear to be up for the challenge when "Tory scum" is screamed at them tonyd. Even I had to make a halfarse attempt to question the validity of the charge based on that link.
I'm a proud Tory. Huzzah!
I've given in to being labled 'scum' now, there's no point in me trying to defend against something so fashionable. Besides, a lifetime as a United supporter, i've been labled worse.
I've probably a sizeable chip on my shoulder too, I just wish I was as well balanced as the lefties, with a chip on both.
Just remember folks, Jesus was a Tory - ergo - so's his Dad.
I'm a proud Tory.
Such depravity 😐
Can't you reduce the shame by claiming you're a LibDem ? ........ it's the same thing, it just sounds nicer.
Con'Dem, its's the future, init
dear me..I'm a proud Tory.
but made worse by..
Huzzah!
Who the **** says
Huzzah!
But I would argue that a slavish devotion to ideology, at the expense of any shred of human kindness or empathy is a quality exemplified in this country by the Tory Party.
this is it i'm afraid. The tories venerate the base desires, other parties at least attempt to mitigate them.
I vote Conservative at the moment but what other option is there......
BeakerBand Ed.... surely not??
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Nah, the Dem's are gone now, just be back to the Cons. Unless the Tories form a coalition with Nu Lab: ConNuLab. Then all the proper lefties can get on with sorting out the Socialist Worker Party into a decent opposition and all the Tories and Right-wing-lite Nu Labs can have a love in!
I voted Lib Dem, there I've said it. It's the first step...
But I would argue that a slavish devotion to ideology, at the expense of any shred of human kindness or empathy is a quality exemplified in this country by the Tory Party.
another +1 here
Who the **** saysHuzzah!
erm, Tories?
Long Reign Lord Cameron! HUZZAH!
I vote Conservative at the moment but what other option is there......
Good point Frankers ......an aesthetically displeasing Ed Miliband who reminds you of a children's TV favourite ? Or the devilishly handsome David Cameron ? It's a tricky one. And people don't give those sort of considerations enough thought.
ernie_lynch - MemberI vote Conservative at the moment but what other option is there......
Good point Frankers ......an aesthetically displeasing Ed Miliband who reminds you of a children's TV favourite ? Or the devilishly handsome David Cameron ? It's a tricky one. And people don't give those sort of considerations enough thought.
Well I base all of my voting decisions on this.... what can I say
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Come on you Blues !!
Get in there Frankers!
slimjim78 - Member
As I see it, there is only one way to solve this inane debate.
A mass fight.All the Tories v All the Lefties v the yellow ones.
No holds barred, bare fist fight to the death.
Survival of the fittest.
Tories will win though, the lefties will be too out of shape after years of sofa skipping turkey twizzler munching, whereas 'the scum' have been eating all of the protein.
Simples
Not so simple I'm afraid. You have dismissed the fact that the lefties ranks have been swollen with the recently redundant working classes. Them lot that did all the manual labour. Strong in the arm, thick.....
I've yet to meet a tory who when pressed actually gives a shit about the poor.
I should qualify what giving a shit actually means I suppose. Yes, they care about cheap sources of labour to provide support to big businesses but no they don't care about poverty, its effects on families and totaaly distance themselves from any kind of moral resposnibility to help people without either being condescending or imposing some kind of 'social contract' that turns them into little tories.
nothing worse than a working class tory is there?
I make little distinction between the NuLav elite & the incumbent mob (indeed, the ConDem propensity for handing [i]everything[/i] over to Serco/Crapita/G4S in the name of, cough, "efficiency" simply enlarges on the Blairite vision).
Whatever the political hue, we are being shafted by a monied cabal of sycophants - most of whom would pish themselves with fear if they ever had to actually hold the line, in the various public services that they themselves so denigrate.
Tories will win though
How many are physically like Mr Eric Pickles? Maybe not so clear-cut as you think!
yossarian - MemberI've yet to meet a tory who when pressed actually gives a shit about the poor.
I should qualify what giving a shit actually means I suppose. Yes, they care about cheap sources of labour to provide support to big businesses but no they don't care about poverty, its effects on families and totaaly distance themselves from any kind of moral resposnibility to help people without either being condescending or imposing some kind of 'social contract' that turns them into little tories.
nothing worse than a working class tory is there?
A very good point well made.... but what do you do to support the poor ?? ❓
I make little distinction between the NuLav elite & the incumbent mob (indeed, the ConDem propensity ...blah blah... a monied cabal of sycophants - most of whom would pish themselves with fear ..waffle...that they themselves so denigrate
could you stop using big words please, us poor Tories are struggling to follow.
from whence does your education derive exactly?
I gotta get me some of that
but what do you do to support the poor then??
put people ahead of profits
complicated it isn't
it does however require you to squeeze the bollocks of people who you went to eton with or who sponsor your party or perhaps companies your are 'friends' with. Takes guts and integrity. These traits aren't just missing from the tories by any means, its just what fills the gap is even more repugnant than most others.
Smacks of Bureacracy incompetence to me than actual 'save more money if we did this'.
It'll only get worse as we don't need a MASSIVE army if we aren't in Iraq etc etc etc. Todays/future wars won't require tens of thousands in a country for intervention.
As for Tory? I don't understand. Should you also praise Tony/One-eyed idiot for 'job creation' then when they decided to invade countries?
How many are physically like Mr Eric Pickles? Maybe not so clear-cut as you think!
His insatiable appetite can deal devastating blows.
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from whence does your education derive exactly?
I was born this way. 😈
yossarian, I trully like your new world view, but I fear human nature will always prevail, no matter the colour of the party
I've yet to meet a tory who when pressed actually gives a shit about the poor.
This is the crux of the issue for me.
Tory politics is the politics of self-interest rather than caring about the common good - 'I'm alright Jack' writ large.
It's particularly sickening for those who have received all the advantages in life to claim to have pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps and talk as if everyone has the same opportunities they did.
but I fear human nature will always prevail
Human nature being what? Being selfish and greedy? Human beings have also co-operated and shared and helped each other for thousands of years.
wowzers.
I truly fear for humankind.
Go on slimjim - explain how I'm wrong.
whats the point, you've all made it abundantly clear how wrong I am.
David Cameron seems like a perfectly decent fella to me, I dont understand all this venom at all. Sounds a bit forced.
Human beings have also co-operated and shared and helped each other for thousands of years.
yet give a man/men power
Being selfish and greedy
pops up, 80% of the time, it happens all the time
yossarian, I trully like your new world view, but I fear human nature will always prevail, no matter the colour of the party
Just because you are a heartles **** dont be as stupid /arrogant to assume we all are or human nature is to be as heartless as you 🙄
arrogant, maybe, stupid - not all the time. realistic - yes.
heartless, no way man.
If you honestly believe that ANY organisation that weilds any kind of ultimate power, is not affected in some way by aforementioned human nature/corruption, then i'm not the only stupid one.
There are (probably) millions of great people in our country alone (which makes me wonder why we keep voting numties into power), i'd be amazed if any of us are infallible though
Tory politics is the politics of self-interest rather than caring about the common good - 'I'm alright Jack' writ large.
Have you (pl) ever considered that it's more a question of the self made telling the rest of the world that you too (pl) have an opportunity do do something for yourself (pl)? This is a preferred way to doing it over simply relying on handouts or that someone else finds the solution for you (pl).
Just a thought.
[/devil's advocate].
pops up, 80% of the time, it happens all the time
Pretty sad outlook on life if you just readily accept that people are mostly selfish and greedy, don't see that as a problem and act accordingly. I can see why you would vote Tory though.
I would also argue that a lot of the selfishness/greediness you readily accept is not human nature, it's because reckless competition and self-interest is lauded by the out-of-control capitalist system we have.
Have you (pl) ever considered that it's more a question of the self made telling the rest of the world that you too (pl) have an opportunity do do something for yourself (pl)?
The self-made like those in the cabinet you mean? We have terrible social mobility in this country with the odd exception that proves the rule - suggesting to many people that they have the same opportunities as the incredibly privileged people running the country is ludicrous.
The self-made like those in the cabinet you mean? We have terrible social mobility in this country with the odd exception - suggesting to many people that they have the same opportunities as those running the country is ludicrous.
Agreed. You will be in favour of bringing back grammar schools then right?
the self made
The present Tory front-bench...self made? Yeah roight!
EDIT: Oops, grum said it before me. 😛
Agreed. You will be in favour of bringing back grammar schools then right?
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yossarian, I trully like your new world view, but I fear human nature will always prevail, no matter the colour of the party
ah the classic tory refuge 🙂
I would say the one saving grace of mankind is human nature. When given the chance most people look after each other. A few don't i suppose, but they probably have little blue rosettes... 😉
The self-made like those in the cabinet you mean?
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Looking at a few and mistakingly forming an extreme view rather than being a bit less extreme like the majority of the back benchers.
Regarding having the ability to get off your arse and do something positive is within reach of everyone. I'm not talking about the Lord Sugars, I'm talking about the likes of TheArtistFormerlyKnownAS.... who's got off his arse and done something. An example to many of what can be done.
suggesting to many people that they have the same opportunities as those running the country is ludicrous.
This I agree with, Labour/Conservative, they're all the same. It's about power not the politics.
And baggy starfishes.
The self-made like those in the cabinet you mean? We have terrible social mobility in this country with the odd exception that proves the rule - suggesting to many people that they have the same opportunities as the incredibly privileged people running the country is ludicrous.
I don't think that's true, and I'd ask for your proof of this. While a small minority of very high end positions may favour the landed, most positions are open to anyone if they put the effort in. The very fact that there are notable exceptions proves that social mobility is perfectly possible in some fairly large extremes, it's just that those involved must put in exceptional effort to get to exceptional places in general, which is perfectly acceptable to me (I'm less keen on people with cash getting positions without any effort, but that doesn't mean social mobility is dead). I dislike the folk who will sit there and tell people that social mobility is poor and you won't get anywhere if you don't know the right people or have cash, because it's patently not true - there's plenty of kids of working class folk who end up directors of multinationals or high up management of some sort or other on good wages. It certainly isn't the case that born-poor, always poor, unless you are not encouraged - which is down to family values.
Regarding having the ability to get off your arse and do something positive is within reach of everyone
lovely theory but thats all it is.
