Most people won’t read the graph that closely and the authors risk being accused of tinkering with the visuals to over state their point.
If you've zero scaled the vertical axis could you take the horizontal axis back to properly preindustrial levels of CO2 please, Cougar, say 280.
The mention of absolute zero is an intersting point which leads us to where are the 140 ppm extra we've already emitted going to take us. + 3-4°C seems likely from the geological record once the ice has reached the appropriate level. That corresponds to a 5-25m sea level rise. And that's if we completely stop fossil fuel use tomorrow.
My browser finds stuff in French I'm sure you'll find key words to google in there.
The graph axis thing could go either way really. When you zero it it looks pretty minor, almost like part of a natural cycle. Wonder who would prefer that version?
As Ed suggests, it would be far better to plot it back to pre-industrial times and even better to plot back further so see the gradient on natural cycles (not asking you to do that).
My browser finds stuff in French I’m sure you’ll find key words to google in there.
CO2 is a meme? 🤨
😉
Here you go,
So by this logic the weather forecast should show temperature graphs referred to absolute zero?
It's not really a direct comparison. A temperature scale is essentially arbitrary, it's an artificial numbering scheme.
Yes – I am being argumentative for the sake of it. Sorry.
Feel free. I would. 😁
it would be far better to plot it back to pre-industrial times
I didn't check, but I assumed the graph starts at when the station monitoring went live.
In any case, I didn't mean to derail the thread. Like I say, I only edited it out of curiosity because non-zero graphs make my teeth itch.
The graph is showing the data that exist from that source. If you put an acre of white space in a plot in scientific paper by choosing axes that didn’t reasonably reflect the range of data the editor would just tell you not to be so silly and plot it properly.
Maybe climate change is a problem, maybe it isn't. I'm personally of the opinion that we're all doomed; I live 8m above sea level, my eldest son's house is even lower than that.
But that isn't an excuse to go round defacing public monuments just because you feel angry and can't be bothered to go through the democratic process. That's a route to a rapid end to the civil society (maybe that's what they want, I don't know).
All depends what the aim of the graph is. If trying to shut up the idiots saying it is just a change that happens as climates always changes then it would be beneficial to show say 1800 - current. Okay that would not be white space, just a more useful graph in many cases.
"I live 8m above sea level, my eldest son’s house is even lower than that."
Just plot sea level on a graph that starts at the centre of the earth. Problem solved.
FFS
Those data didn't exist in 1800. That's the famous graph of observed CO2 from Mauna Loa, started by Keeling in the 1950s.
But that isn’t an excuse to go round defacing public monuments just because you feel angry and can’t be bothered to go through the democratic process.
its not about anger, it’s about the failure of what you call “the democratic process “ which has (democratically? I think not) favoured the oil companies. What should people do? Start up their own multinational giants to compete on lobbying?
Defacing stonehenge isn't really my cup of tea, but neither is tone policing. It's a big world out there and no-one has a monopoly on "the correct way to raise a concern". People are allowed to differ in their approaches and opinions. Besides, plotting scientific graphs hasn't really got us very far over the last 5 years. (OK, that may be too negative, we've actually taken significant strides in decarbonising our power sources, but only travelled a small part of the journey so far).
JSO have always been careful, as far as I can tell, to avoid lasting damage in their stunts.
“in a few hundred years we’ll be on Mars, we will have created technology far beyond where we are now,
We still will run int6o the inevitability of physics and the vast amounts of energy needed to put and maintain people on mars. Its not going to happen at all. Physical limits are physical limits
FFS
Those data didn’t exist in 1800.
Okay, calm down. I wasn't aware of that and just asking for more data which now I know doesn't exist in your rather shit way of saying it. Pity though as would be useful to have as a wider perspective.
Uri Geller now claiming that the aliens who built stonehenge will now invade the UK as retaliation....................
Defacing stonehenge isn’t really my cup of tea, but neither is tone policing. It’s a big world out there and no-one has a monopoly on “the correct way to raise a concern”.
"Don't vandalise ancient UNESCO sites" is hardly engaging in respectability politics.
On the day two JSO protestors were jailed for the Van Gogh Sunflowers incident in 2022, another 3 JSO protestor repeat it, why, i've no clue, it's as if they want some of their members to be handed custodial sentences and in jail to be some type of martyr?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c243v5m0r0lo
why, i’ve no clue
Lucky for them you are doing exactly what they want even without understanding. 🙂
Back in the good ‘ol days of direct action, confronting directly those responsible for the issues, as Greenpeace used to do, by driving Zodiacs in front of whaling ships, protestors were prepared to actually put themselves at risk, by having the courage of their convictions.
What are these JSO protesters putting at risk, what courage are they showing by vandalism of a work of art that has nothing to do with the subject of their protests?
Well with all due respect to all in this conversation the most likely point of no return was around 1980. This is not used in general conversation around the subject as the "we can still save ourselves" v the "**** it, it's too late" has more kerb appeal.
It's inevitable that we will need a technology to save us, as abstinence is a very hard sell particularly in less well off parts of the world.
Also water as in too much and too little is a more immediate problem. Covid was a very big near miss, it might not have felt like that but it was - that view came directly from a virologist at Porten Down.
One might imagine that inhabitants of Florida and Georgia might be getting a bit of a wake-up call around now, but with DeSatanist as State Governor, I’m inclined to think they’re literally up shit-creek without a paddle. Or a hope.
What are these JSO protesters putting at risk, what courage are they showing by vandalism of a work of art that has nothing to do with the subject of their protests?
For the most part their liberty and place of abode/financial stability. Not a small risk for those approaching retirement and living in a major economic power. Next time you visit a Shell garage take a look at the posted High Court injunction on each and every pump, there's also one for Gatwick/other major airports.
