[Closed] Things clients blithely say to graphic designers

"[i]Stop being such a drama queen and give me what I ask for, not what you think I need![/i]"

This is something of a classic in the world of graphic design - bit like the Picolax thread on STW...

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

That must have hurt. Did they not understand you know best?

But who's paying?

LOL @ precious graphic designers.

Where's binners when you need him 😉

They are, but having them change their mind halfway through the job is annoying and a waste of time.

COOOEEEEEEEEE. I'm here.

My favourite phrase is "can you just......."

normally followed by "knock us up a 24 page brochure for about 4 o clock please"

and of course....

http://www.makemylogobiggercream.com/

They are, but having them change their mind halfway through the job is annoying and a waste of time.

It's out of scope, so you get to bill them more.

did your 'problem' resolve itself binners? Hope you found the twunt who did it... 👿

well it was always going to be damage limitation, but could have been worse. I've come to the conclusion though that its not too bad, all things considered.

After all: I don't have to look in the mirror every morning and stare back at a bitter, swirling void of spite, malice and emptiness where my soul should be. So its all relative really 🙂

After all: I don't have to look in the mirror every morning and stare back at a bitter, swirling void of spite, malice and emptiness where my soul should be. So its all relative really

I tried that once. I thought I looked like Les Dennis!!

[img] [/img]

...will there be bullet points?

That nowt. We've just had a pitched battle over Spurious Capitalisiation. I had Rank pulled on me.

I hope they don't read the Guardian, or get introduced to sans serif Body Text, they'd have an aneurysm.

You use capital letters? You can't be a proper designer then 😉

Worse still, I am the dragon that is a sub-editor. I think I need to breathe more fire, becuase I don't seem able to put people off their assorted ****wittery.

the fav round here is

"Its just a five minute job"

followed by "what I need is a pdf presentation, 40 pages all hot linked, you can get the images off the net, cheers"

if they can design that lot in five mins, ther welcome to ****ing do it! GRRRRRRR

Working for old fashioned people is really demoralising "have you got an old english style type?" 😥

This is something of a classic in the world of graphic design - bit like the Picolax thread on STW...

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

quality!

All professions get this. Why are graphic designers so precious about it? Is it because they are insecure as their job is basicly 'using a Mac'?

🙂

I'd have thought "nice Saab", would have been quite high up the list.

"nice Saab"

'Can't the computer just do it'?

Yeah, the F12 function key interprets randomly received client requests and performs said request in seconds.

No need to charge for it, we do it for the love of it.

Things that graphic designers say to clients:
'I don't think you're the kind of client we'd want'

(Me reviewing initial ideas: 'There's not really much there I'd like to develop')

stever - they go hand in hand I guess. Either they are crap at their job or the client is crap at understanding what works for their audience.

As we often say to clients - we aren't designing this for you, we are designing it for your customers.

Graphic designer 2, this week...

Me, best whiney-begging voice: 'I've been let down on a print job, any chance of replicating this for tomorrow morning if I get you all the artwork.'

Knock at the door 2 hours later. 'Here you go Steve.'

It was the former Mastiles. All the preciousness, none of the skills 🙂

Another personal favourite is doing a 'photo shoot' (ie: get some dick to take some photos on a crap digital camers, then saying "can you just photoshop this out, photoshop this in, take that out, get rid of this, put this in ..... blah blah blah

Here's an idea: why not get a proper photographer to take some quality pictures instead. It'll save me dashing my head in with a rock, give someone decent some much-needed business, it'll end up cheaper (how much are you paying per hour for this photoshop work?) and the end result will look ten times better

No. We haven't got the budget

Well my hatred of Word has reached new heights. I'd have finished the job if i was using InDesign.

I'm just thinking of the iPad i can buy with the fee from this work...

Agreed

I recently designed a suite of stationery and the client wanted the letterhead copying as a Word template - it took longer to figure that out than it took to design and artwork the letterhead in the first place.

Hateful software.

I do all my quotes and invoices in InDesign now. Much handier for pdf-ing and emailing to clients. That way they can't arse about with them too much (unless they're also graphic designers of course).

I seem to remember:
"Can anyone knock me up a logo for fifty quid?"
causes a lot of blood to boil..

"I'm just thinking of the iPad i can buy with the fee from this work... "

😉

Right.

Imagine that your client is actually hundreds of people, and their knowledge of what they want is fragmented across all their various brains. Now imagine that they can't comprehend what they've asked for, and don't know what is good or bad (a bit like someone blind from birth asking for graphic design work). Now imagine that they don't know how to communicate with each other or you.

Then they want regular progress updates and demand to see the things they don't understand but think they do because they are using the previous version.

Then put hundreds of millions of pounds on the whole deal.

That's IT.

I seem to remember:
"Can anyone knock me up a logo for fifty quid?"
causes a lot of blood to boil..

I think that was a real lack of understanding of the processes of graphic design, by the OP of that one. Fair enough, I don't think it was intended as a piss-take, and to be fair, quite a few folk were simply insulting, rather than trying to explain things. Matters weren't helped much by the OP asking people to submit designs, which they 'might' choose and pay for. I think they learned something from the episode.

Graphic designers can be up their own arses mind. Think because they've got a ****ing iPhone and a dockside studio that they're somehow something special. In my honest opinion, many churn out formulaic shite bereft of any real creativity, charge shitloads for it, and think because they've been to St ****ing Martins or wherever, that they are somehow an authority on design. Half of them can't even dress themselves without incurring the derision and disgust of others. Ponces.

I'll do the work better than them, and for cheaper. 🙂

I ****ing hate dealing with clients. I really want someone else to do all the "dealing with people" stuff... I spent 2 hours with a client today going through photos for their website, so frustrating - just pick a ****ing photo, nobody cares if the fence needs repainting as its likely to be so small you can't tell anyway!

I really need to get out of this freelancing thing and into a job where I just get handed down stuff to do rather than actually go out and meet people 😆

That's IT.

that's just business
same idiots, same crapness, different job titles
business is just a great big black hole of mindf*ck

Fred talks sense!

I don't know how you can bear it. Billing someone for 2 hours of your time whilst you watch them pick a photo?

Do a few weeks working with a shovel and you might gain a sense of perspective.

Hateful software.

To provide the opposite perspective...

An agency did a new corporate identity for us around 10 years ago. Included in the brief was to do a Powerpoint template (because that's what people use in the real world 😉 ) that we could use to prepare and email presentations to clients/potential clients. Their idea of a solution was to do a spiffing looking design in Adobe something-or-other then paste the graphic as the backgrond in a Powerpoint template - meaning that the presentation was several Mb before adding any content (too large to email). It took about 2hrs to reproduce the design in native Powerpoint objects at a few hundred Kb.

Conclusion: a few 'creative' types and some Apple Macs may look the part, but aren't necessarily going to deliver real world solutions...

Said agency demonstrated similar genius on other projects and, perhaps unsurprisingly, went out of business (owing lots of small local businesses work / cash) - before coming back as a phoenix company which the local 'Business Link' was happy to puff-up in their newsletter. 🙄

Do a few weeks working with a shovel and you might gain a sense of perspective

can you send me a purchase order number and I'll invoice you the £30k

Their idea of a solution was to do a spiffing looking design in Adobe something-or-other then paste the graphic as the backgrond in a Powerpoint template

I've been given a promo CD for a design company and expected something clever as then packaging and CD are nicely turned out. The Cd actually contains a powerpoint that is made up of what appear to be scanned pages from a brochure.
It was difficult to read the scanned text and not everyone has Powerpoint.
I was suprised they would do this in their own marketing.

+1 molgrips

My experiences, only over the last 25 years though...

Or a few years ago sat with the Communications department in a project meeting. After they managed to not actually do anything in the last week, I asked the question, "have they moved the (£12bn) acquisition date back?". "No, of course not", came the answer, "why do you ask?"...

[b]geoffj[/b] - Member
Fred talks sense!

You knows it! 😀

Do a few weeks working with a shovel and you might gain a sense of perspective.

Ok; discover you have a talent for something, spend a few years at college/Uni developing that talent, work for shite money for far too ****ing long, then have to deal with philistines who don't respect or appreciate your abilities and the effort that you've put in so that you can do something they can't, and you might get a sense of perspective.

Get back down that hole. And don't come out again until you've learned what it takes just to get by in an incredibly competitive industry.

And the next time you pick up a packet of something, or are on the motorway looking for the sign for your turn off, or even browsing the internet, remember it's graphic designers who create all that visual language to make your life easier...

Pft.

Beer o'clock....

i love my job, that is all.

Ok; discover you have a talent for something, spend a few years at college/Uni developing that talent, work for shite money for far too ****ing long, then have to deal with philistines who don't respect or appreciate your abilities and the effort that you've put in so that you can do something they can't, and you might get a sense of perspective.

😆

Or to put things another way: Get a job in your chosen vocation, then be paid good money to occasionally do things you think you're above, or for customers who you think are beneath you, then go online and bitch about it.

Hardly the end of the world, is it?

You finished that digging yet?

[img] [/img]

I'm just thinking of the iPad i can buy with the fee from this work...

Good idea, then you'll have something you can hate even more than Word.

It's no surprise to hear Elfin bitching about it though. And you know what, him and others like him here aren't even "proper" designers. They just played about in their bedrooms picking up a bit of this and a bit of that and then proclaimed they were designers now. Because tossing themselves off wasn't going to earn money to live in the real world.

Designer my arse Elfin. You wouldn't know Helvetica from my hairy tea-towel holder (though your "missus" does) 🙂

How are you getting on with your new "font"? Decided it wasn't worth the effort but that ripping off London Transport's (ie. a font someone actually spend hours labouring over, not just jigging about on an iMac for a day or two) would be easier?

😆

DD you really are a Hairy Pie of the highest order...

Nah, that was my pre-beer rantette. I am calm now.

I make no claims to be a 'proper designer'. I've had absolutely no training, but found a love for creating stuff on my little iMac, and really get a buzz from it. Occasionally I fool people into giving me money for doing stuff.

Just find it tiresome when someone who appears to have bugger all knowledge of design and what's required to be able to do it, makes sarky comments.

'Ooh, you should try digging holes, that's a proper manly man's job that is'.

Yeah, ok. I can only dream of such a profession; sadly, I lack the natural talent and skill for it... 🙄

My font? It's coming on. I'll show you when I've properly finished it. I'm quite pleased with it, and I'm learning all the time. Hopefully gonna go book shopping this weekend; Blue Palomino recommended a couple of good titles. Far more complex than I imagined actually. Really enjoying the whole process though.

Far more complex than I imagined actually.

Somehow, I imagine you saying that a lot. LIke when someone says,"'Ere mate, stick the kettle on will ya?" or "Oi'll 'ave a point of Stella fella"

😆

So you get a call from TBWA who liked your CD of work (this was before I had interwebs), can we see your portfolio?. yes, yes indeed. So you go down and the place is full of really good looking types s****ing around. you sit down with 3 of the good looking types and they look at your stuff, nice, nice, blah, etc. 2 days later you get a call, job for Natwest, bit of direct mail illustration work, cool, kerr-ching. so you do your thing and you send them some roughs. Then they say, yeah, but we only want this, and this, and, this... just like this (someone elses work), can you change this, and this, so it looks totally different to what we employed you for i.e my style of work, as evidenced in my portfolio. can you do it?. yes, course I can I need some cash, and it's lots. so I do it and I send them the hi-res artwork. I get the call from some guy, it's obviously been to some other eyes. Can you, you know, make it more "jazzy"?. What? WHHaat??

Stella?

STELLA???

What d'you take me for, Binners or something???? 😯

Can you, you know, make it more "jazzy"?. What? WHHaat??

Ha ha! Mmm, jaaaazzz....grreat!

I was in Finchley Road earlier. Standing (outside Natwest spookily enough) looking up and down the high street with all the shops. And it struck me just how much the job of the graphic designer has come on; all the different shops with their logs and corporate identities, window promotional graphics, vayns emblazoned with company logs, buses with ads all along the sides. Years ago, there would be far less colour, far less visual diversity.

Bit further on there were some fellers digging a hole in the road. They looked unconcerned by all the graphic designery stuff all round them. I think they were trying to get a cable into a narrow pipe, I'm not sure, there was a lot of swearing going on.

Just find it tiresome when someone who appears to have bugger all knowledge of design and what's required to be able to do it, makes sarky comments.

Someone moaning about being paid to watch a client (ie, the person who is paying them) pick photos? It's asking to have the mickey taken. As a freelancer, it's a bloody good way of picking up 2 hours of billable time without expending any effort. My point was that there are far worse things that you could be doing to make a living, even if you do have several years study and experience under your belt. Or in other words, be glad for what you've got.

It's very interesting that you went so ape over something not even directed at you.

There's no virtue in being precious over your qualifications by the way. I'm pretty well qualified compared to the average, but if shovel work's all that's going, you won't see my pride getting in the way of me picking up a shovel.

Ok; discover you have a talent for something, spend a few years at college/Uni developing that talent, work for shite money for far too ****ing long, then have to deal with philistines who don't respect or appreciate your abilities and the effort that you've put in so that you can do something they can't,

Mmm - sounds like life in IT Development and probably a 101 other careers

Enough of your bickering.

This thread is rather good too:

[url= http://www.27bslash6.com/missy.html ]click here[/url]

tron, maybe it isn't about the money all the time.

I know it's easy money sitting there waiting for a photo to be picked, but I'd rather be doing something where my brain was actually being used.

I do have some perspective, managed 2 days in a factory before quitting as I couldn't take standing there feeling my brain turning to mush. So I'm grateful for this, it's just frustrating.

Oh and annoying phrases that people use - "can we make this a bit more zappy?"

There's no virtue in being precious over your qualifications by the way. I'm pretty well qualified compared to the average, but if shovel work's all that's going, you won't see my pride getting in the way of me picking up a shovel.

I've cleaned toilets to earn money. Your point?

Someone moaning about being paid to watch a client (ie, the person who is paying them) pick photos?

Yes it's an inconsequential thing to you, but the discussion is about the things that frustrate designers. Yet you, obviously feeling left out and ignored, had to come on, make some sarky comment. Well you've got attention now. But you've upset me. 🙁

anyone else got any real world examples then? cos I've got **** loads!

it not "graphic design", but childrens book illustration...

"We like it, but can you take the hedgehogs out?"

No actually I'm sorry I'm tired, hungry and crotchety, and to be honest, I've overreacted to Tron's comments. And caused an unnecessary argument.

So I apologise, Tron.

"We like it, but can you take the hedgehogs out?"

Some **** would've got [i]served[/i] for saying something like that to me....

I've done far too many drafts (for which I've been paid), expecting a nice little earner to come from my efforts, only to be told 'sorry, we've decided not to go with it after all.'

😥

[img] [/img]

good man. Not many apologise for their comfuddlement on here 🙂

So you get a call from TBWA who liked your CD of work (this was before I had interwebs),

how recent? Our creative director is ex TBWA... top bloke and bloody good at his job

ages ago, must've been about 2003ish? when there was a lot of illustration work used on natwest banks. lol! like I'm saying tbwa creatives aren't good at their jobs! apart from employing me!

Yeah, he would have been there then, did 10 years for his sins!

Are you talking TBWA London or Manchester?

TBWA = Disruption.

Disruption is a tool for change and an agent of growth: a working methodology and a life view philosophy.

The word is difficult, uncomfortable but "Disruption" is not destructive. It is creation. Disruption is a means of creating something dynamic to replace something that has become static.

Disruption is the art of asking better questions, challenging conventional wisdom and overturning assumptions and prejudices that get in the way of imagining new possibilities and visionary ideasblah blah blah blah bullshit waffle ****.

What a packet of shit. Sorry, but that's just a load of pretentious guff. No wonder creative media types get a bad name. And their website's shit.

That makes me want to go to a trendy bar in Hoxton, walk up to a Nathan Barley type, smack him in the mouth and take his iPad.

But then maybe that's just me.

anotherdeadhero - Member
Worse still, I am the dragon that is a sub-editor. I think I need to breathe more fire,[s] becuase[/s] because I don't seem able to put people off their assorted ****wittery.

We should start a support group.

That makes me want to go to a trendy bar in Hoxton, walk up to a Nathan Barley type, smack him in the mouth and take his iPad.

Still available on 4OD i believe.

No don't get me wrong; I love design, and I admire those who are good at it. But there's an awful lot of ****ery going on under the name of 'graphic design'. Re-hashing a Kandinsky or Michael English poster does not make it great design. Just means you lack ideas of your own. It's not an 'homage', it's plagiarism.

And then you get agencies using words like 'symbiosis' and 'organic'. It's doing pictures not a ****ing nature documentary on BBC2 with David ****ing Attenburra! ****s!

I suppose it's incredibly subjective though. But to me, it's a shame that design seems to have gone the way of pop music and art, reduced to the creative equivalent of Pot Noodles and reconstituted meat products.

Well I was referring to manc

Have to agree with Effin - anyone seen the recent Design Week awards - best in show was an annual report that could have ( and probably has been) designed 100s of times in the last 15 years - nothing new, same old same old typeography, obvious photography, unimaginative layout. And it got 'Best in Show'. Utter rubbish.

But there's an awful lot of ****ery going on under the name of 'graphic design'

And wouldn't you know 😀

[i]Well I was referring to manc[/i]

I work there now

Hope it's going well for you then 🙂