[Closed] The SNP's record in government

Evening. I agree avoid the independence mire argument, I love Scotland, it'd be an interesting debate on what the SNP has/is doing.

Thanks Theresa for your work in England

High Hedges (Scotland) Act 2013

Winner

Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012

I haven't particularly looked at this legislation to know if it's any good. What I do know is that the SNP have overseen its implementation and are therefore ultimately responsible for completely ****ing up policing in Scotland.

Haven't read the detail of all those bills, but in general I think they're doing okay. Not brilliant on cycle provision, a bit too fawning towards big business for my liking, but I think their heart is in the right place.

Not having to pay any business rates is nice.

[quote=thegreatape ]Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012
I haven't particularly looked at this legislation to know if it's any good. What I do know is that the SNP have overseen its implementation and are therefore ultimately responsible for completely ****ing up policing in Scotland.

Not just the Police they have ****ed up the Fire Service in scotland as well

Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015

Is brilliant - you need police clearance and certificates to certificate to run an air rifle club or range

problem is, you [b]don't [/b] need them to set up a real rifle range, as a result people have been setting up .22 gallery ranges, where the owner is able to purchase weapons and ammo without any certification or paperwork, because its easier than setting up an air rifle club 😆

Ooh ooh. I think I know the answer to this one.

Is it because licensing of "real" guns is reserved to Westminster?

Yep 🙂

Theres no figures out for certificates yet, but according to the trade, they've seen a boom in people deciding to buy real guns, because if you're going to go to all the trouble of getting a certificate, you might as well get a real gun, so by trying to reduce the number of airguns in circulation, they've just increased the number of real ones.

the law of unintended consequences 🙂

So isn't that a problem with firearm regulations not being strict enough at Westminster, then? Not really the SNP's fault if Westminster won't tighten up on them.

So isn't that a problem with firearm regulations not being strict enough at Westminster, then? Not really the SNP's fault if Westminster won't tighten up on them.

How is more people utilising a perfectly legal cause within the legislation a problem?

That part of the law hasn't changed since 1968 in in fact the principle goes back about a hundred years - the fact that Scotland didn't figure in what would happen when they changed their own law is either incompetence or just an unintended consequence 😀

Depends if you think guns are a bad thing, I suppose.

I've been shot with an air rifle, it wasn't pleasant. Though probably not as bad as being shot with a bow, which isn't regulated.

The removal of Double Jeopardy was a bad one IMO.

If the state is going to prosecute, then they should only be allowed one bite of the cherry, and need to do it right.

Not impressed by their airgun and knife laws either.

The removal of Double Jeopardy was a bad one IMO.

"When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?"

Crimes Involving a Firearm
[img] [/img]

Looks like air weapons are the biggest problem

scotroutes - Member
'The removal of Double Jeopardy was a bad one IMO.:
"When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?"

True enough, but the removal of Double Jeopardy is eventually going to get abused by the state, and that is why we need it.

This is a desperately needed piece of legislation imo- Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012.

"Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012"

A terrible bit of authoritarian law.

If you are a bigot. Oh....

The leadership are certainly being forced to think again on Land Reform. I suspect much of the "new intake" has mord fundamental change in mind.

At the weekend, on LBC, Ken Livingstone compared the SNP to a communist party!

Basically he was saying that if you dissented from the party line you would be ejected somehow.

TurnerGuy - Member
At the weekend, on LBC, Ken Livingstone compared the SNP to a communist party!
Basically he was saying that if you dissented from the party line you would be ejected somehow.

By now Scots are used to Labour party high heid yins making these sort of fact free statements.

Perhaps he could point to some evidence of this?

It certainly was noticeable in the recent Labour party leadership election... 🙂

Meanwhile at the SNP conference there was mass dissent and the party line on Land Reform received some adjustment.

And the fracking debate wasn't exactly according to plan. Ken talking pish - whodathunkit

Perhaps he could point to some evidence of this?

Friend of my parents was a Labour councilor in Edinburgh, but jumped to SNP. After a year of being told not to step out from the party line, they quit. SNP councilor in Dumfries also eventually quit when they were told not to challenge what came from up high.

I would disagree that the SNP are 'communist', but they are heavily centralised. Look at Police Scotland, the Named Persons thing, proposal to centralise health records, Land Reform, etc. and you can see why people who aren't blinded by the light shining out of Sturgeon's arse might be a little concerned.

Kit - Member
...I would disagree that the SNP are 'communist', but they are heavily centralised. Look at Police Scotland, the Named Persons thing, proposal to centralise health records, Land Reform, etc. and you can see why people who aren't blinded by the light shining out of Sturgeon's arse might be a little concerned.

I also don't like the centralisation trend, however when the money supply is restricted, it's an obvious economy measure. Fiscal efficiency versus operational efficiency.

Maybe Scotland should have full fiscal control over its funds.

I wonder how that could happen.... 🙂

(I'm not a SNP member, and see no light shining from any of their arses 🙂 )

it's an obvious economy measure.

or an obvious anti-democratic measure ?

I accept your point about SNP centralisation in general Kit though some of it has imo been done with good reason,but I dont see how land reform is centralisation quite the opposite in fact. (edit)

Perhaps it's not an indication of centralisation, but I just wanted to gripe about it 😉 I don't see how the bill can progress without some firm legislation about triggers for challenging legitimately owned assets, from a rurally naive central government.

If you are a bigot. Oh....

The SNP's authoritarian legislation has been criticised by both Liberty* and Index on Censorship.
https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/free-speech-and-protest/speech-offences
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2011/11/scotland-football-hate-law-confused-and-unnecessary/

* the human rights organisation, not the expensive shop

@ Kit I don't see Land Reform as a "rural" only issue. There are implications for cities too especially in housing, with some of our biggest builders holding on too landbanks to build poor quality houses for maximum profit without providing any of the amenities needed to make a housing scheme a real community. In rural terms some landowners hold too much power,being landlord, employer, and sometimes councillor/mp/msp as well.Finally there is also poor stewardship of land in public ownership.
https://commonspace.scot/articles/358/down-but-not-out-castle-toward-community-takes-fight-to-scandal-ridden-argyll-and-bute-council

Bagehot had a review of SNP record in this week's Economist as well. Made many of the same points
A small snippet -

Ironically, the Scottish government’s underperformance rests precisely on the formula that makes it dominant. Special-interest groups are indulged, populist spending protected, services left unreformed for fear of making enemies, tabloid-friendly changes embraced and an “other” (the English, represented by Westminster) fingered for every failure or disappointment. The SNP’s soft autocracy in Scotland is the thread holding together the party’s distinctive tartan of universal handouts, leftist posturing, melodramatic flag-waving and structural conservatism. It amounts to a style of government that is more akin to Argentina’s Peronists than to the reformist Scandinavian social democrats to whom SNP politicians flatteringly compare themselves.

Isn't it more important to look at how they've run the budget and what taxation changes they've made and whether they've been successful. Legislating around air rifles strikes me as a waste of parliamentary time given other priorities.

@gordi if you want social housing it should be built by the government. It's provision should be nothing to do with the private sector. Let the SNP be judged on what they are doing to provide social housing, they can spend property taxes on building homes

jambalaya - Member
Isn't it more important to look at how they've run the budget and what taxation changes they've made and whether they've been successful. Legislating around air rifles strikes me as a waste of parliamentary time given other priorities.

Not just the legislation is it? The transparency and fairness with which you apply them make a big difference.

<cough> planning decisions for Trump golf resort </cough>

@ Jambalaya as far as social housing goes the SNP have the best record of any Scottish government. http://www.scottishhousingnews.com/4958/social-housing-completions-up-almost-20-per-cent-under-snp/

<cough> planning decisions for Trump golf resort </cough>

Yup, that's one reason I'm not a SNP member.

ninfan - Member

Point of the thread to get down what the Scottish gov are actually doing for Scotland with the power they have.

Likewise if you feel they are doing good or bad outwith this list, or that some of the above isn't relevant for whatever reason, please say so. [b]Only criteria i'd suggest is that it's attributable to the SNP.[/b]

The floor is yours! 😉 tbh, i'm not particularly wanting to say too much in the thread. Much is made of the SNPs poor record, I have my own opinions, as do alot of others, I'm genuinely curiously to hear others opinions, criticism or praise welcome..

Andrew Neil doesn't seem too impressed with them anyway, or the guy's ability to give answers.

For me, them pulling renewable energy funding to Scottish companies was unforgivable, especially after Salmond had spent so long bigging up the industry. Terribly short sighted and a waste of everything that had been done before.

@gordi that's a good thing then, I was responding to your post about the private profit motive which I see as irrelevant in this.

@seaso - if you are happy with their performance then that's good, it's your concern not mine thanks to devolved powers. I think there is a very short list of STWers, me most definitely not included, who are going to read the contents of a Holyrood finance bill and in any case it's the implementation not the legislation. I have to say I have low expectations based on the nature of their economic arguments I've been exposed to over the past 2 years.

I can't stand their centralisation of everything is deeply disturbing and police Scotland is a disaster. Paramedic we spoke to recently didn't have a good word to say about the SNP.

@dragon - genuine question - does it really make sense to regionalise government in a country of just 5m people ? Surely thats a recipe for a bloated government

The air weapons legislation is completely ridiculous as pointed out, totally born off the back of Daily Record populism. How exactly anyone expects this to be enforced is beyond me.

Also, not being able to buy a bottle of beer after a night shift is a pain in the hole, I'm sure all the jakeys have given up the Super T now that they have till ten o'clock to think about their sins. Or maybe it keeps them out the way of commuters who think the problem is solved. Who knows...

From what I understand Curriculum for Excellence is a heap of shite as well.

Jamba - we went from a two tier system of regional authorities and local councils in the early 90s to larger councils but no regional authorities, decentralisation if you like. No, it doesn't make sense but I'm nit sure if we have the power to change that.

@ jambalaya It's the unrestrained profit motive aka greed that is motivating corporations to hold onto land banks and driving up the cost of getting a home in this country so that's hardly irrelevant

[quote=jambalaya ]@dragon - genuine question - does it really make sense to regionalise government in a country of just 5m people ? Surely thats a recipe for a bloated governmentExactly - how many police forces does England have with 10x the population?

But how much do you really save as the demands on Glasgow intercity policing are wildly different from that in rural parts of the Highlands. Plus what we see is more centralisation with the big jobs in the central belt and a force that has too much power and can be influenced by the government too much.

For me it is less about population size and more about ensuring that there are suitable checks and balances.