and stating that black people have low IQs.
Has Johnson really said that? I wasn't aware.
Are you sure that Johnson didn't just say it to sound more like Winston Churchill who was well-known for his Anglo-Saxon racial supremacy veiws?
Mind you Johnson with his Ottoman blood is hardly an example of racial purity.
<h2>brownperson again I love your contribution, you make very valid points. I’d like to see the data that being born here doesn’t automatically grant citizenship. </h2>FRom here:
https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizenship/born-in-the-uk-between-2-october-2000-and-29-april-2006
<h2> </h2><h2 id="if-your-parents-were-not-british-irish-eu-or-eea-citizens-when-you-were-born" style="font-family: 'GDS Transport', arial, sans-serif; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-size: 1.6875rem; line-height: 1.111111; margin-top: 45px; margin-bottom: 0px; caret-color: #0b0c0c; color: #0b0c0c;">If your parents were not British, Irish, <abbr style="cursor: help;" title="European Union">EU</abbr> or <abbr style="cursor: help;" title="European Economic Area">EEA</abbr>citizens when you were born</h2>
You’re only automatically a British citizen if when you were born at least one of your parents lived in the UK and had one of the following immigration statuses:
<ul style="font-family: 'GDS Transport', arial, sans-serif; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; font-size: 1.1875rem; line-height: 1.315789; margin-top: 20px; margin-bottom: 20px; list-style: outside; margin-left: 20px; padding: 0px; caret-color: #0b0c0c; color: #0b0c0c;"><li style="margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;">indefinite leave to remain (<abbr style="cursor: help;" title="indefinite leave to remain">ILR</abbr>)
<li style="margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;">right of abode
<li style="margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;">right of re-admission
If the parent that meets these conditions is your father, he must have been married to your mother when you were born.
So if both your parents don't meet these criteria, then you are not automatically British, even if you are born here.
I'm sorry; I can't do anything about the formatting issue here; I simply copied and pasted from the government website.
I stand corrected
and I disagree. Anyone born here is british as far as I'm concerned
shamima begum? Born in the UK had her citizen revoked and made stateless.
Or how about England cricket captains born overseas? You don't get more english than being the cricket captain Ben Stokes is one example amongst many
Then why would you choose not to go today, causing your viewpoint to be less represented? Why not challenge them and show them they’re the minority? And as you say, Yaxley was told by the organisers not to attend and was arrested when he did.
Aside from attendees, such as the person arrested yesterday for carrying a sign with a swastika, there is Hamas links and support among the organisers of the Pro Palestine marches. Yet many more peaceful people were happy to attend and make sure their own views were heard.
Or just be honest that you picked a side.
I have 'picked a side', you are right. The side of peace.
As for the march today; I didn't say that I chose not to attend. I had a prior engagement to help a neighbour with something. My Jewish wife, and other Jewish people we know, chose not to attend. Would you say that they have 'picked a side'? What side have you picked?
I have in fact attended previous 'pro-Israel' demonstrations, as I feel it's important to listen to a range of different voices. I have witnessed Islamophobic behaviour by some attendees at such gatherings (as I have witnessed what I consider to be antisemitic behaviour in some attendees of 'pro-Palestinian' demos). I am also further concerned by the alliance the far-right have formed with some 'pro-Israel' groups. I am heartened though by the organisers of today's march stating that the EDL were not welcome. My overriding concern is that racism in all forms must be challenged whenever possible. So I think it's a shame that today's march was co-opted by known racists and xenophobes.
These are very specific examples. Shamima begum I disagree with her citizenship being revoked, I think she should be allowed back and get a fair trial .
I have no idea who Ben Stokes is so cannot comment
and I disagree. Anyone born here is british as far as I’m concerned
What do you feel about the immigrant Boris Johnson? Do you regard him as 'British'?
What about Sir Mo?<br /><br /><br />
I am just poking a bit of fun and your position on citizenship - its not as clear cut as you think. Ben Stokes is a england cricket captain - born in NZ IIRC but you donot get much more english than captaining the cricket team
A friend of mine was born in the Seychelles - that that make her less British?
Johnson was born in the US? Is he entitled to less than a UK born person?
Or how about my friend of danish birth - she is now a UK citizen but was not born here. Is she worth less than someone born here? she emplyes 2 folk. thats gotto give her some credit surely?
Brownperson / Ernie - can you suggest some reading for billabong?
I can honestly say I have no idea where BJ was born, please educate me.
Again I stand by my position, I don't know where big mo was born. If he's 1st gen immigrant and commits a crime deport him. If he has kids who were born here and they commit a crime it's a different discussion.
I’m sorry; I can’t do anything about the formatting issue here; I simply copied and pasted from the government website.
On a desktop you get the optionof "paste without formatting" - that gets rid of the nonsense something similar on phones?
I'd love to be recommended some reading btw
I can honestly say I have no idea where BJ was born, please educate me.
USA
so BJ was born in the US of A. He's american
Brownperson / Ernie – can you suggest some reading for billabong?
UK govt website I've already linked to, regarding all aspects of citizenship legislation. And not the Daily Mail.
I can honestly say I have no idea where BJ was born, please educate me.
Manhattan, NY.
Again I stand by my position, I don’t know where big mo was born. If he’s 1st gen immigrant and commits a crime deport him. If he has kids who were born here and they commit a crime it’s a different discussion.
Mohamed Farah was born in Somalia, from where he was trafficked as a child to the UK. Mohamed Farah is not his real name. Sir Mohamed Farah is a Knight of the Realm. Only a British Citizen can be made a Knight of the Realm.
I was hoping for a little more than read uk.gov. I'm genuinely interested in hearing a different point of view.
I was thinking some books. I cannot think of anything recent thats appropriate.
Orwell maybe? Which is his book that deals with racism and colonialism? - decades since I read it<br /><br />
I'm already an orwell fan
How about Norwegian fairy tales?
Norwegian fairy tales? tell me more
I feel you're already well versed in such.
you do?
why?
Anyone born here is british as far as I’m concerned
I was born British, in Germany. That’s what my birth certificate says.
YOu have made a bunch of statements with no basis in fact<br /><br />
If you like Orwellthen down and out in paris and london and road to wigan pier are both discussions of poverty IIRC and Shooting an Elephant is about colonialism and racism
Which is his book that deals with racism and colonialism?
Burmese Days
Kelvin would you consider yourself british or german? and why?
Kelvin would you consider yourself british or german?
British. And I have no right to German citizenship as I have a British birth certificate. But none of that has mattered for most of my life…
and why?
It’s just a statement of fact. I have always been British. Despite being born elsewhere. Not so simple, is it?
No it's definitely not simple.
ta Gordimor thats the badger!
There is no black and white in any issue. Everything is a shade of grey, this is why I ask the questions. To try and become wiser
And then we have British people born in the Caribbean, treated as outsiders because people “considered” them not British, and the evidence that they were indeed British was destroyed. Those Brits were often deported or denied medical treatment because they or their parents were born “abroad”, despite having (but not being able to prove it through no fault of their own) as much right to British Citizenship as you or I. No, it’s never simple, and anyone claiming that being British is as simple as being “born here” can be led to support the mistreatment and degeneration of “others” as if it was somehow a virtue… that’s the space the Far Right operate in.
I completely agree. A shameful part of our history
I have no idea where BJ was born, please educate me.
The clue is in his name..... how many British men do you know called Boris? And de Pfeffel?
His great grandfather was a Turkish politician, so a proper foreigner.
And probably muslamic.
If he’s 1st gen immigrant and commits a crime deport him.
Why would you want him deported, if he committed a crime… but not someone who committed the same crime, but happened to be born here? Why would you treat him differently? Where does that come from? Do you want Johnson deported? I was caught shoplifting at 14, should I have been deported?
Well actually few of us are british seeing as the british peoples where pushed to the fringes by successive waves of immigration - those pesky Romans, Angles Saxons and Normans. Very few pure bred britons around.
Personally my DNA on one side has me as mainly Sami and the other the classic UK mix of German, French and Danish. all my ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years tho
I also feel less and less british as the years pass. England has moved away from me to become a place I no longer recognise. Scotland is my home
Everything is a shade of grey, this is why I ask the questions.
Well, to be fair, you actually proposed a pretty right wing position to a (for a long time lurker, as I'm sure you're aware) fairly left wing audience and then invited them to tell you whether they consider that to be a far right position. And they did.
And then rather than particularly tell us what you think, you just keep 'asking questions' in a way that is plausibly deniable but which has got a few a bit worked up. Which would be good if they didn't, but that's the way it goes.
So a question in return. Do you think your approach is at all comparable to https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/sealioning-internet-trolling and if it is then would you consider changing your approach to not appear that way?
If you commit a crime you should be treated equally under the law. So if you were to for example steal something you should be equally tried under our laws. A native thief and an immigrant thief should receive the same punishment, however after you’ve served your time the native thief is let back into society, the immigrant thief should be deported IMO
I have no idea what “native” means in this context (and from your posts neither do you), but being deported for a crime is a punishment, so in your description two people having committed the same crime would be treated differently by the law. Why would you want that to happen in the case of Farah? Where does that come from? What would Farah have to do to deserve equal treatment to you or I…? What more could he do that he hasn’t already done?
[ EDIT: we haven’t actually established that I should get equal treatment, being born British in Germany… should I? Should Boris Johnson? ]
Theothejonv I've never heard the term before but perhaps you could describe it that way
and yes I would consider changing my approach if it's perceived that way
the immigrant thief should be deported IMO
That sounds ridiculous to me. It has to depend on circumstances.
Obviously if someone goes on a thieving spree on the day they arrive in the UK there might be a case for deporting them.
If however they have lived and worked here for years and have a family I don't see why they should be treated any different to a UK born thief.
I have no idea what “native” means in this context
Semi-civilised indigenous?
Here's the thing, we've been talking about immigration for many pages now. This wasn't my intent, I was interested in what makes someone 'right wing' in the UK today. Say I was to completely concede the immigration point, what would be considered right wing in the UK today (immigration aside)