[Closed] Support our Soldiers

yes, especially that massive oil field under afghanistan...

So..by that logic, it it exactly the same when police officers, paramedics and firemen die doing their job (oh well they knew the risks when they joined). How about dying in a car accident, or maountain biking? we know these to be a dangerous activities?
FFS does being military devalue your life?
There a lot of armchair warrior types on here who just plain don't have the spine to join/do anything meaningful and like to slate those who do, probably through feelings of inadequacy.
Alpin, has a squaddie shagged you wife bychance? mum? girlfriend? or a sailor shagged your boyfriend? kicked sand in your face?

"Highway of Dead Returning Service Men and Women Sent to Die In Foreign Lands - Where Their Presence Was Not Wanted or Specifically Called For - In Order to Appease [s]and Facillitate a Secure Supply Of Oil For[/s] Our Southern Neighbours"

better?

sorry. the first one was a rough draft for the new name of the stretch of road in Wotton Basset. although change 'Highway' to 'Avenue' as it's a little quainter...

maountain biking

you're right. that sounds dangerous.

no, my cousin is in the navy. although i think he's being discharged after finding out he's unable to do his job on a ship in a cabin several metres under water. he flipped out after going on his first proper sailing jaunt. he couldn't stay below deck without breaking into a sweat/scratching at the walls. even above deck he could hardly hold it together. he saw the ship's doctor who described him as being claustrophobic. he got evacuated off the ship and is now holed up at his mum's on full navy pay. this was two months ago. he thinks they've forgotten about him.

did know one squaddie - i think he joined as he liked the idea of being given a gun - but have lost contact over the years. he never shagged my mum, sister or girlfriend. in fact i'd be surprised if he's made love to anything other than his gun.

Highway of Dead Returning Service Men and Women Sent to Die In Foreign Lands - Where Their Presence Was Not Wanted or Specifically Called For - In Order to Appease and Facillitate a Secure Supply Of Oil For Our Southern Neighbours"

better?

sorry. the first one was a rough draft for the new name of the stretch of road in Wotton Basset. although change 'Highway' to 'Avenue' as it's a little quainter...

Ha "army style walkie talkie"

Please dont get me started!

no worries..... 😉

no, never voted labour.

agree, it's not the soilders fault that they are fighting in wars that may be futile and/or illegal. it is their fault that they signed up. as said before, they knew what they'd be letting themselves in for when the proverbial shit hits the fan.

I don't disagree, it's called [i]courage[/i]
Some have it, some don't.

that's a beer, isn't it.

can't get it round here, though.

alpin - at least show them some respect in death, just because you don't agree with them joining the forces. When told to go they go and serve our goverment, that is enough to earn respect from us all what ever the rights and wrongs of our countries recent wars. It's certain memebers of the goverment that we should chat with about Iraq and Afghanistan.

can't get it round here, though.

Didn't think so.

Why should we have unquestioning respect for all soldiers? Are there NO bad soldiers at all? Lots of them joined up to learn how to kill others, an element of "soldiering" as we seem to be euphemistically calling it. Frankly, not [i]my[/i] type of people.

You have a very twisted view of soldiers, and I believe that says more about you than them.
Sierra Leone, Bosnia/Kosovo, ****stan, they go where others can't and won't to do rough jobs. Not all of the tours are out and out warfighting, many more are aimed at helping people (see above).
I've been involved with mines awareness training in schools, providing security to threatened villages from marauding lunatics (seriously) and providing alternative routes to communities. My old unit also went to ****stan to provide earthquake relief. And no, I'm pretty certain that I'm not [i]your[/i] type of person.

i didnt join the army to "kill people" i joined up to learn a trade and mainly enjoy my life!

i have a great life. im off to germany in a few weeks, then i get posted to the falklands (yes i know im a bit late).

i have some of the best mates in the army and i can say that none of them joined up to "kill" people.

Backhander, agreed, you're probably not. And that's why, as a soldier, you don't get my unquestioning respect. There are good 'uns amongst you, and there are bad 'uns. Same with coppers, firefighters or anyone else in the line of fire.

So how do you and 1111 feel about killing people? Is it just part of the job? Do you say "whoa there sarge, I didn't sign up for this!!"?

There a lot of armchair warrior types on here who just plain don't have the spine to join/do anything meaningful and like to slate those who do, probably through feelings of inadequacy.

IMO it's better to pontificate in an armchair than go out and shoot up a lot of darkies for no particular reason

if i had to shot a terrorist who was going to shot my mates i wouldnt even bat an eye lid. luckly i have never had to do this.

let me ask you if a gun man had a loved one in his sights would you kill him if it was the only option?

I'm out now, but some people have the stomach for a fight and some don't.
At the end of the day, we'd all be wearing grey and speaking german if all of us were pacifists/cowards. I'm not overly enamoured by the taliban, nor was I by the serbs or the west side boys. It's not like they're being asked to kill children (as the taliban do). the ROE are strict and soldiers can only use lethal force in certain circumstances (unlike the taliban). Also, I think you'll find that most collateral damage is done by pilots not soldiers.
As I remember, you accept that you could be killed you just buy more PAX , get on with it and hope your skills are up to it.

IMO it's better to pontificate in an armchair than go out and shoot up a lot of darkies for no particular reason

you accept that you could be killed you just buy more PAX

i like that line!! ill be using that at depot

Why should we have unquestioning respect for all soldiers? Are there NO bad soldiers at all? Lots of them joined up to learn how to kill others, an element of "soldiering" as we seem to be euphemistically calling it. Frankly, not my type of people.

Sure, there are bad soldiers, just as there are bad people in other walks of life.

The word "soldiering" covers a wide range of activities/tasks you might have to carry out if you are in the forces, such as Military Aid to the Civil Power (firefighting, disaster relief etc), not just killing people. Having said that, the rule used to be [i]'soldier first, tradesman second'[/i] when I was in the forces, so everyone learns how to 'kill' as part of their training, although some are better at it than others.

Why would you automatically assume that everyone in the military is [i]"not my type of people"[/i]? Do you know them all? Do you know their reasoning behind joining the armed forces? Does your generalisation extend to the medical staff in the military, a lot of whom are there because the forces paid their way through medical school?

Or is your opinion influenced by some history with the military which has caused you to tar them all with the same brush as a result?

As for the killing people, well, as you say, it's part of the job. It has to be done, so it gets done.

However, justifying the killing is maybe not so easy for some of those that have to do it, as the increasing number of serving and retired service personnel with mental health issues illustrate.

It's up to you if you respect the soldiers or not, but I don't think most of them will care either way if I'm honest.

Like Backhander, I doubt I'm your sort of person either, but that's okay as it would be a boring world if we were all the same.

[b]1111[/b] - enjoy your tour of the Falklands. It was a hardship posting the first time I went, but a proper watersports paradise the last time I was shipped south!

Round of applause to 1111, wheelz & Backhander (+ any other armed forces personnel on the forum) You guys have done your duty and served queen and country. Without brave soldiers willing to risk their own lives we wouldn't be sat here now!

No I don't agree with some of the conflicts we have entered into but that's all about the w***ers that were voted in! Not the men and women that signed up.

It seems some on this forum would rather eat their tofu and think evil can be stopped with flower power than open their eyes and admit we need people willing to do bad things to stop very bad people.

did know one squaddie

Your arrogance to therefore condemn everyone in uniform is truly staggering and only one step below the glib pontification of sfb.

"i didnt join the army to "kill people" i joined up to learn a trade and mainly enjoy my life!"

So how do you and 1111 feel about killing people? Is it just part of the job?

I can confirm that what 1111 has said, is completely true - he didn't join the army to kill anyone. He joined the army to learn a trade and because he lived in area with pisspoor/non-existent employment opportunities for young men.

I hope he sticks with it and continues to make a career out of it, despite iirc, some hints a while back about wanting to leave. I also hope that he doesn't lose his life because of a ****wit decision made by some self-serving politician from the safety of his or her nice secure Westminster office.

As far as "shooting people" is concerned, I understood 1111 to say that it is only something which he would feel OK about if it was in self-defence.

Good luck in Germany 1111, and take care mate. And sort yourself out a bike to leave at home ffs ! 😉

and only one step below the glib pontification of sfb.

I don't mind glibly not killing people

TooTall - Member

[i]did know one squaddie [/i]

Your arrogance to therefore condemn everyone in uniform is truly staggering and only one step below the glib pontification of sfb.

well, i did know him. i don't know what you're saying. how have i condemed him or them?

oh, my aunt had her medical studies paid for by the navy, spent several years out in Gibraltar and now works, fairly high up, for the NHS. she'd say that her time in the forces was a pleasent one.

At the end of the day, we'd all be wearing grey and speaking german if all of us were pacifists/cowards.

that is a slightly different question/situation. i'm sure if the country really was under threat, 99% of able bodied STW dwellers would sign up to defend [i]their[/i] families, homes and way of life - as happened in the 40's. since we aren't under threat from foreign despots then i see no need to sign up and serve [i]'queen and country'[/i].

oh, i kann schon deutsch. heiss das, das ich für die gestapo arbeiten würde? JA!

the military is a tool used by governments to get what they* want.

* make your own mind up as to who [i]they[/i] are.

Soldiers do nothing in my name, they fight for our government.

And Im sure the majority signed up because they fancied it and thought it would be fun/exciting, not because they had some burning desire to serve 'queen and country'.

I'm happy for them, its nothing to do with me what others choose to do, but why does doing what your told unquestionably, especially when its often killing people for political gain, deserve such respect from strangers?

As stated above, its the public and government bleating on about respecting our soldiers who die so we can have a nice comfortable life, Im sure they themselves are just getting on with what they chose to do.

Although somejoin up because of family tradition, or because they are unemployed, I suspect most join because they want a more adventurous, meaningful life than they'll have doing some dull as dishwater job at home. The sense of duty and service and loyalty is something that comes to them as part of the military experience, particularly the regiment structure. And that can only be a good thing really.

Not all soldiers are perfect by any means, but on the whole they are a grand lot, and when you see some of the lowlife on the streets today it does make you wonder if getting rid of National Service was the right thing to do.

i think that our troops should be given respect, ok they sign up and know what they are letting themselves in for, but the bottom line is that where ever they are in the world the end result is mainly to protect you , and your family ,or people that need help, the actual guys on the ground do a great job, its the politicians that worry me.

Why would you automatically assume that everyone in the military is "not my type of people"? Do you know them all? Do you know their reasoning behind joining the armed forces? Does your generalisation extend to the medical staff in the military, a lot of whom are there because the forces paid their way through medical school?

I didn't say that did I?

I've met plenty of people in the army, navy, air force - I've ridden with some of them, I've had a few beers with them. Some of them have seemed fine and some of them have seemed like right nobs - about similar percentages to any given cross section of people that one comes across. I would hate to compromise myself that much to have my training paid for. If you join the army to learn a trade, then fine, but somewhere along the line, you have to square that desire with someone else ordering you to kill another human being - and not always in self-defense. That's a big old compromise.

Or is your opinion influenced by some history with the military which has caused you to tar them all with the same brush as a result?

Yeah, I was gangbanged by a bunch of sailors last weekend in Bristol...no, funnily enough, I can draw my own conclusions quite securely.

As for the killing people, well, as you say, it's part of the job. It has to be done, so it gets done.

This is the compromise I find hard to accept and it's why I would never "join up". It's a brutal attitude that I don't "respect".

It's up to you if you respect the soldiers or not, but I don't think most of them will care either way if I'm honest.

Like Backhander, I doubt I'm your sort of person either, but that's okay as it would be a boring world if we were all the same.

Well, we're all dandy then. I can freely disrespect soldiers who aren't my type of people because it's unlikely that a peace lovin' pacifist like me is their type of person.

that is a slightly different question/situation. i'm sure if the country really was under threat, 99% of able bodied STW dwellers would sign up to defend their families, homes and way of life - as happened in the 40's. since we aren't under threat from foreign despots then i see no need to sign up and serve 'queen and country'.

probably better fun there than Basra or Kabul.....

Fair comment

but we should feel grateful to them and their families when they die doing our elected governments bidding. SFB, you live in lala land mate. It must be nice there.

no, I feel sorry for them for being conned into wasting their lives as political pawns 🙁

i joined up and served 16 yrs, learnt a trade. travelled most of the world and served in the falklands conflict, adriatic war, gulf and a few other things unknown to the public. It was a buz, adrenalin pumping sometimes. i did it for me, no one asked me to do it. i dont need clapping or a pat on the back. we can all have an opinion and can voice it on a forum or a soap box without fear of reprisal. ITS A FREE COUNTRY.

no, I feel sorry for them for being conned into wasting their lives as political pawns

Don't feel sorry for them. I doubt there are very many British soldiers out there fighting who see themselves as political pawns to be pitied by people back home.

A lot of them will simply relish the opportunity to pit their training and skills against those of the enemy whilst fighting alongside their mates. It's the ultimate test, if you want to look at it that way.

Job wise, this might not appeal to a lot of people, but it certainly appeals to some - including me in my younger days. Don't just assume that they wouldn't want to be there as, for a lot of soldiers, that's simply not true.

They'll still whinge about the food though!

no, I feel sorry for them for being conned into wasting their lives as political pawns

Whilst you live what is evidently a fulfilling and rewarding existence as a free spirit who gives so much to society? 😐

A lot of them will simply relish the opportunity to pit their training and skills against those of the enemy whilst fighting alongside their mates. It's the ultimate test, if you want to look at it that way.

The "ultimate" test ? Really ?..........surely the ultimate test depends on the "enemy" ? 😕

Presumably the [i]ultimate[/i] test of pitting your training and skills against those of the enemy, would be to fight an enemy who had an airforce, tanks, heavy weapons, etc ..... just like you have. And to stay in the conflict zone not for maybe 6 months, but until the conflict was over - years if necessary.

I'm not sure that calling the US airforce in to demolish the side of a mountain because someone has taken a pot shot at you, necessarily represents the [i]ultimate[/i] test of your training and skills - although obviously it is some sort of test.

Thankfully it's been quite a while since British forces have been expected undergo the ultimate test of their training and skills. And hopefully it'll stay like that.

Ernie, the ultimate test of the British Armed Forces as a whole might well be a war as you describe, but for an individual any of the small unit contacts that take place on a daily basis in Afghanistan could be the ultimate test.

If he (or she) is not up to the job then he (or she) stands a good chance of ending up dead. How much more ultimate can you get?

The Taliban might not have the same level of equipment but, as the Russians discovered, they know how to fight and they know how to use the ground to best effect. (The Taliban are post Russian occupation, but recruited from the remnants of the Afghan resistance).

As for the length of the conflict, if you don't cut the mustard and get killed in your first contact it doesn't matter how long the conflict goes on for really!

Most of the guys I knew from school that joined the forces (and a careers advisor put some pressure on me to do the same) were just working class lads with few qualifications who thought it looked more interesting than being unemployed in Thatchers britain, or getting leathered by their jakey father every night.
Patriotism, guns or killing people had nothing to do with it.
On the subject of the current conflicts, does it occur to you that British troops are being used to fight America's war, by proxy, the same way that the British empire used troops from its subject nations?
Anyway the quicker they're all home, the better.

The Taliban are post Russian occupation, but recruited from the remnants of the Afghan resistance

And without any of the advanced weaponry which the US generously supplied them with when they were fighting Soviet forces.

Whilst I won't deny that Afghanistan represents a challenging environment, it can hardly be described as a conflict of two equal sides - despite the fact that the weaker side appears to be winning.

Whilst you live what is evidently a fulfilling and rewarding existence as a free spirit who gives so much to society?

you're making me blush :o)

And without any of the advanced weaponry which the US generously supplied them with when they were fighting Soviet forces.

Apart from the stingers that are still missing!

Didn't know they used civillian airports

a free spirit who gives so much to society

You haven't seen his pictures of ladies' arses then? You haven't lived...

Pieface - Member
Didn't know they used civillian airports

All the time...

Whe just never made it obvious....

I did 12 years, and loved it..