[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Farrell and Barritt supposedly out of the Wales game according to the London Evening Standard.

Bad news for Wales.

The good news for Wales is that this "opens the door for Billy Twelvetrees...."

Who will presumably hold the same door open for Jamie Roberts.

Gulp!

I'd go Burrell and Eastmond.

That's pretty much what people said about Andy Farrell when he was vying for the England 12 shirt and he turned out......rubbish.

Farrell was 31 when he started in union and had recently suffered a raft of injuries and a fairly major car crash which injured his back I believe. Burgess is in his prime, regarded as one of the best league players in the world and with time to learn. Completely different state of affairs.

Like I said, whether he's a success or not is yet to be seen. I personally believe he's left it too late for the WC. But, if he's prepared to stick around after that he has the potential to be a player in the mould of Roberts. If he'd come a year earlier I don't think we'd be in this situation of panic now Tuilagi's injured.

Completely different state of affairs.

I agree. It is. The rest of what you say is also accurate.

However, the point was that all that eulogising about Burgess was exactly the same as what was said about Farrell. That didn't mean he was a great union player and talking up Burgess doesn't mean he'll be great either.

I'm a huge fan of Slammin' Sam - as a person and as a RL player. I just have plenty of doubts as to whether he can make the transition successfully.

Jon Callard thinks Burgess has 3 world cups in him 😯

Talking of Sam, isn't it the Main Man's 50th cap against England?

It's all very well everyone having a go at "over lap" Twelvetrees but after this weekend that is twice recently "flat footed" Burrell has been done on the outside. 😆

Callard thinks Burgess has 3 world cups in him

Well he's got one RL world cup under his belt. Does that count as one?

that is twice recently "flat footed" Burrell has been done on the outsid

Yeah Burrell didn't look too clever against Racing Metro did he? 🙁

So Farrell out for 6N with a

high-grade medial ligament strain

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31002380 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31002380[/url]

And it's very wrong of me to be pleased.

I wish the bloke no ill will whatsoever, but I'm pleased that the coaches are going to have to try use Ford and hopefully chippy. Maybe then, a slightly less creative centre could work!

It might focus farrell on his game a lot more time off with players pushing for his spot. I hope Ford's performance is good enough for a permanent spot in September he looks like a more switched on rugby brain than farrell.

I think you englishers are being a bit harsh on Farrell. Starting Ford is a gamble, could be great or could struggle. Mind you if Samson isnt fit Wales will lose.

Farrell has missed so many tackles in defence at crucial moments in games. Time Out will do him good.

Ford has been better than Farrell in every age group they've played in. He's a better runner, distributed and kicker from hand. Farrell is a good place kicker and can be a good tackler (when he's in the right place and not getting involved in niggle off the ball). I know which one I'd prefer to have in my team...

Farrel does what is needed for an international 10. He is pretty solid in the tackle, kicks territory pretty well and his place kicking is up to scratch. International rugby is (sadly?) often more about being solid than spectacular when winning margins are small. Ford is the more exciting option but could equally be a bit of a liability at this level. Ford's place kicking stats aren't up to much either are they? The bigger issue is what happens if Ford gets broken? Not a lot on international game time for the 10's vying for a place in the team...

The bigger issue is what happens if Ford gets broken? Not a lot on international game time for the 10's vying for a place in the team...

We'll find out if Cipriani really has matured.

Annoying to see the age old question about England centres again. Just when we thought we had 3 or 4 decent ones to choose from, injuries and poor form raise there head. The only two playing consistently well are JJ & Eastmond, but are they World Cup level? No I don't think so. Lancaster may test them & Cips vs Italy or Scotland perhaps.

I can't help thinking that Fridays game will be more forward orienatated than usual. I'd like Burrel to score just to annoy AA 😉 but as usual our 3/4 appears afflicted.

My prediction; England 19 (1 try 4 pens) Wales 16 (1 try 3 pens).

Farrel does what is needed for an international 10. He is pretty solid in the tackle, kicks territory pretty well and his place kicking is up to scratch. International rugby is (sadly?) often more about being solid than spectacular when winning margins are small.

I think that that's what as an England supporter, I'm used to watching, but it's not what a really good fly half should be doing. There's that little thing about being able to spot the right option, and this sometimes involves passing the ball to a player in space, or spotting a developing overlap.

Something that I read about Chris Ashton. He found playing with Flood fantastic because Flood played flat and was happy to pass the ball to a player coming from deep. It worked for the pair of them. As soon as Farrell came along, that type of ball dried up completely so Ashton was of no more use. I'm no fan of Ashton, but there's something wrong if your best finisher simply stops getting any kind of ball...

I'd have thought that Lancaster first choice midfield v Wales was going to be Ford, Farrell, barritt. Two most experienced defenders he trusted and an extra kicker / playmaker to manage the game and keep the ball where he wants it. Not flashy or exciting but sensible to try to negate Wales backs by avoiding them as much as possible. Real back to square 1 for England's plans now.

TB, as someone who used to love watching the French attack off deep 3/4 lines in my youth and the Irish more recently, I get dismayed at England's inability to take the ball at pace. Gain line desperation gone too far? The downside of total rugby was having hookers playing at 13!! It's the RU equivalent of Fallaini ? - waste of time and space in midfield, just slowing things down and being dirty.

Still looking forward to 6N. The draw had already made it wide open - in terms of who has home advantage, when - let's see who makes the flying start. I enjoy the fact that (almost) any team could win.

Frustrating that England don't have a RWC team to blood properly though!

Nicky Thomas gone from Ospreys to Gloucester, big loss to the welsh game, he's a real prospect

Geoff Parling, Brad Barritt, Tom Wood and Kyle Eastmond will miss the Cardiff game

so say the beeb

Farrell was worth his big chance early in his career but he has not progressed. Judged at international standard his goal kicking is adequate, his positional kicking is terrible, his passing/game management modest. In the two head to head games I saw (H-Cup Semi 2013 and Final 2014) an aging JW humiliated him, the gulf in standard was enormous. England have done themselves a disservice by not bringing in Ford for more game time sooner. I don't like to see people get injured (especially knee injuries I winced when I saw it) but his injury has forced Lancaster to make the changes he should have made a while ago.

Nicky Thomas gone from Ospreys to Gloucester, big loss to the welsh game, he's a real prospect

[img] [/img]

Love it 😀

Hahaa what a monumental **** he is!!

Fine player wendyball antics aside though.

England injuries;
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Parling
Slater
Wood
Morgan
Farrell
Burrell
Eastmond
Barritt
Tuilagi
Foden
A couple of front rows and that would be a decent team!

England can still field a pretty good pack, but a starting lock will only have one cap, and the bench lock; 0.
The only two remaining centres are twelvetrees who is horribly out of form (and not that good when he's at his best) and Joseph who has not played for england for 2 years.
I'm hoping it will be competitive but a sound thrashing wouldn't be a surprise either. We will not be seeing expansive rugby in this game, well not from England anyway!

Well, we'll see how Wales get on vs our 2nd's.

Excuses coming in early Kryton 🙄

Get the excuses in nice and early!

😉

Beaten to it!

Still valid Captain 😆

Get the excuses in nice and early!

All bets are off if Samson gets injured early

The fact is; Wales are favorites. England don't really need an excuse if they lose

True. Wales are effectively playing our second team, with a limited number of caps and 2 weeks max playing together as an international outfit. I will yet won't be disappointed if England lose in Cardiff, and all the Welsh gloating that will prevail here will mean nothing.

If England win however, Wales will need to take a very hard look at themselves.

FWIW I have Ireland as 6N favorites to win now.

I will yet won't be disappointed if England lose in Cardiff, and all the Welsh gloating that will prevail here will mean nothing.

If England win however, Wales will need to take a very hard look at themselves.

Wrecker +1 annoying for WC but can't make excuses, not that they are necessary.

Wales as a team and at home should have adv over England (ditto Ireland)....

....and if WRU repeat the trick of billy goat gruff and a bunch of Caerphilly cheese/Brains SA breath breathing basses and baritones standing right behind our delicate roses at the start, then Engkand will be 0-20 before the start!!!!

Either way, hope it's a good match. Annoying that I am out for dinner so will need to be recorded!

Either way, hope it's a good match.

Yeah ditto. Hopefully it's a decent game.

Annoying that I am out for dinner so will need to be recorded!

That was extremely poor planning on your part.....

Looks like David Wilson could be out now too......Jeez.

Wales are effectively playing our second team

Nonsense.
Defeatist, bottler nonsense.

There'll be a couple of locks making a big step up, but that's about it up front.
At 6 they've got a multi-tour Lion available, 8's been shared between Billy and Morgan for a while now anyway, and Easter's the form English 8 in Prem and Cup this season and got loads of caps too. Front row has massive strength in depth - look at Marler, Corbs and Mako fighting over places.
Most people thought Ford at 10 anyway. Plenty of choice at 9.
At 12 and 13, there's hardly a tried and proven multi cap combo missing. Lancaster's still experimenting, and tends a bit towards "horses for courses" here anyway. Personally ,my guess would have been Farrell and Barritt [u]for this particular game[/u]. Now looks to me like it'll be 36 and Burrell ( who's on course to be fit to play despite being tagged injured above). That's hardly an earth shattering difference.
Must admit I'd really rate Manu if fit, but he's missed more than he's played recently so they need to be able to cope, or at least prepare without. And IMO, it works in their favour for september if they can bring him in as a bit of a wildcard without Wales having had a pop at stopping him now. Cracking interview with Mallett on bbc :

"Tuilagi is a force of nature, and you only get one or two of that type of player in a generation," said Mallett, who guided South Africa to a world record-equalling 17 successive Test wins from 1997-98 and will be working with Accenture to provide statistics during the Six Nations.
"He is so important, there is no question of that. If you have a Sonny Bill Williams or Julian Savea (New Zealand backs), or a Tuilagi, you have got someone who all the other players can feed off and play off.
"I haven't yet seen another player of that physicality in the England set-up. Luther Burrell is a very powerful, strong, player, but he's manageable. Tuilagi is not manageable. When he gets the ball on the front foot he's devastating."

Anyway, back 3 looks like it's what Lancaster would have wanted. Brown's established now. May is his favoured winger. And [i]Watson[/i] looks like the best young English back for a while. Needs to have a game or three before WC.

Also, Wolfhounds are [i]"effectively playing our second team"[/i] (your words) this Friday. Have a look at the strength of both teams here, this is gonna be some B-game.

Irish Wolfhounds:
Felix Jones (captain), Fergus McFadden, Keith Earls, Gordon D'Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald; Ian Madigan, Kieran Marmion; Jack McGrath, Richardt Strauss, Mike Ross; Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy; Dominic Ryan, Sean O'Brien, Jack Conan
Replacements:
Rob Herring, Michael Bent, Nathan White, Robbie Diack; Eoin McKeon, Isaac Boss, Noel Reid, Craig Gilroy

England Saxons:
C Pennell (Worcester), C Ashton (Saracens), E Daly (Wasps), S Burgess (Bath), H Slade (Exeter), L Dickson (Northampton, capt), M Mullan (Wasps), R Webber (Bath), H Thomas (Bath), M Garvey (Bath), J Gaskell (Wasps), D Ewers (Exeter), M Kvesic (Gloucester), T Waldrom (Exeter).
Replacements: L Cowan Dickie (Exeter), A Waller (Northampton), J Cooper-Woolley (Wasps), M Itoje (Saracens), C Fearns (Bath), J Simpson (Wasps), O Devoto (Bath), C Wade (Wasps).

SOB's back.

Also, would have been a great time for Lancaster to bring Steffon over to get involved a bit without losing any face. Except he's got himself locked up.

At 12 and 13, there's hardly a tried and proven multi cap combo missing.

And Thomson looks like the best young English back for a while

this is gonna be some B-game.

Sorry wrecker, that's who I meant. 😳

I don't see this England 2nd team thing either. To be honest I don't ever watch a Wales game and see them as favourites, even against a team like Fiji 😆

Is the Friday match televised anywhere? Could be an interesting watch.

It will be great to see Ken Owens [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31007653 ]making his return[/url] and hopefully be fit for the end of the 6N.

Is there any faint optimism from the Scottish fans this year? They have actually been running in tries in the November international and Glasgow seem to be doing alright... will be interesting to see if they can shake things up in the 6N

Pretty sure they're all full caps in the Wolfhounds game except Jack Conan, who's been Leinster's MOM on many occasions this year. 4 lions too.

Other game, bookies have Wales mild favourites for the match, not much in it.
But they have England as joint favorites for the title with Ireland.

Is the Friday match televised anywhere? Could be an interesting watch.

If Burrell's fit, then claims of "2nd team" are waay out. If the only two centres we have to choose from are 36 and JJ then I don't think it's a stretch to say that it's pretty far from the strongest side england could field. No excuses though, everyone gets injuries. It's a part of sport.

loum - Member
Wales are effectively playing our second team
Nonsense.
Defeatist, bottler nonsense.

There'll be a couple of locks making a big step up, but that's about it up front.

No, it isn't. There are 10 first choice internationals missing of a team of 14 to start.

There are 10 first choice internationals missing of a team of 14 to start.