[Closed] Steve Jobs (Not a thread for the Dianaesque Handwringing)

So a woman posts that her autistic kid can slide his finger across a flat suface and access stuff she put on there and chose for him means that Jobs saved the world?

The fact she chose to blog about it suggests she's bought into the BS, doesn't it?

The fact that nobody said any such thing suggests that the bs is coming from a different source. Why are you so determined to belittle a man's achievements?

If touch screens and apps are how people choose to measure a mans achievements in the world then that is fine, I simply measure people using a different scale

He did a good job at marketing stuff but 3 days of greiving for him seems excessive given that 8 people were shot in Syria today and it's not even on the news.

There's a saying about worshipping false gods

If touch screens and apps are how people choose to measure a mans achievements in the world then that is fine, I simply measure people using a different scale

I'm using that one the next time I'm proved a little bit wrong.

He did a good job at marketing stuff but 3 days of greiving for him seems excessive given that 8 people were shot in Syria today and it's not even on the news.

Again, and sorry if this needs to be pointed out for the umpteenth time for you, but nobody here on STW is "grieving"...a few people are arguing that the "salesman", "good marketeer" jibes are plainly bollocks - and you're struggling to defend them - if then, you choose to go on and spout about Syria, to detract from the failings of your own argument, then fair enough. Maybe start another thread?

you choose to go on and spout about Syria, to detract from the failings of your own argument

Darcy, unlike some of you I'm not here to be the winner of the thread and go to bed with a hard on feeling I've outwitted people I don't actually know.

Those are my feelings on the situation, take them or leave them, my line is drawn in the sand.

I have the strangest boner right now 🙂

But why, when your argument is failing a bit would you suddenly mention Syria? I mean...it's got bugger all to do with this thread? I have no interest in winning or losing, but sorry, if pointing out what I think is a bit bollocksy means that to you - it wasn't my intention.

The reason no-one lusts after a bog standard Dell is that most people have one or something similar

My GF has large iMac and it's an amazing machine to work at. I'm typing on a Dell because at the time I needed a cheap computer. But I wanted, and still want, an Apple.

The iPad is a device that no-one wanted, apparently. What's it for, I still don't know? Apple sells tonnes of them and the market is packed with clones, only few of which come close to the iPad 2. I don't need one anymore than I need a TV or a mobile phone. But I've toyed with a friend's iPad2, and it's absolutely great.

Darcy, I've spent the last 2 days being bombarded with Jobs. Front page of the the Times this morning all Jobs, I simply do not think he worth the column inches he's getting. I'll be the first to acknowledge I started reading this thread at page 3 and don't know if anyone has mentioned Jonathan Ive, the man who actually designed the iPod, but honestly was his mum a virgin?

Hard to imagine that anybody could be so wrong. For every product that Apple launched, there WAS no everyone else making the same kit, no Apple 1, no Mac, no iPod, no iPhone.

I'm afraid I have to return the favour mate! At the time of the apple 1 launch, IBM, commodore and HP were all producing similar kit. As for the ipod and iphone, both were preceded by Creative and HTC, funnily enough the guys Apple love to hate! Fact of the matter is Apple interpret other companies ideas then come back with something simpler and more accessible to general populous than the original, its like pop bands covering songs. Its good but not their idea.
In all fairness I should probably retract the statement I made earlier and replace it with Apple make technology accessible to folks that don't understand how it works, but then that's like saying driving instructors make cars accessible to folk that cant drive, and how many of them do we all encounter every day!

This kind of implies that everyone who buys Apple kit is an idiot and has been duped.

Anyone that pays £400-£500 more for a laptop just because its aluminium and has a paint by numbers OS is an idiot. I make no apology for that.

I qualify that statement by apple even using the same hardware as PCs to break into the market, a shrewd move by ex Jobs. They used power PC (IBM) chips for long enough until they realised PC hardware was leaving them behind. Thats when apple started using core 2s.

But I've toyed with a friend's iPad2, and it's absolutely great.

I found the novelty wore off after a few goes. Just an expensive toy to me, I don't get it at all.

I still have my old iPod mini and I think that iPods are probably the best portable music device simply because of the GUI and thumbwheel. I don't like the iPod touches though, I just can't get on with touch screens - they feel inaccurate and fiddly compared to proper buttons/keys. I don't like that you have to use iTunes with the newer models of iPod classic though, I want to upgrade to something with more storage but would hate to be forced to use software I hate. I'm able to use my old one with Winamp which I think manages the library a lot better.

I'm afraid I have to return the favour mate! At the time of the apple 1 launch, IBM, commodore and HP were all producing similar kit.

Oh yeah? For example ... (Hint - Apple 1 was launched in 1976, Commodore PET in 77, IBM PC in 81, )

If touch screens and apps are how people choose to measure a mans achievements in the world then that is fine

If that was all he achieved then it wouldn't really be a life worth discussing.

Fortunately most of us can look back further than five years ago and consider the massive impact he had on personal computing at Apple, on high end computing at NeXT and even on movies at Pixar.

There's a saying about worshipping false gods

NO ONE here is doing that. All the talk of cults and messiahs is all very funny, but it is really just bluster from the haterz.

People are simply recognising the significant achievements of a dead man and defending them against numpties who seek to belittle them for some odd reason.

If it was Bill Gates, Linus Torvalds, Tim Berners Lee, Richard Stallman or any other tech geek I grew up with, then I'd probably be here defending them instead. That's not god worship. It is simply acknowledging that here was a man that achieved some good stuff and now the world is a tiny bit poorer without him.

Graham, as this thread has shown their are those with an intricate knowledge of Steve Jobs career who place great value on his contributions and there are those who don't; it is clear where I stand.

I'm not suggesting any of the rational thinkers on here are cult members but as people who are debating at ten to eight on a Saturday morning I don't think we're that representative of how the majority use, consume and apply value to Apple products

This thread represents everything I love and hate about this forum (except bikes I guess). Rash and ignorant ranting, an explicit refusal to equate oneself with facts; defence and post-rationalisation of the indefensible. It's all here.

Carry on gentlemen. The perfect alternative to a newspaper on a Saturday morning.

Edit: sorry, meant to be clear that I don't think everyone is acting as described above. There's been some excellent argument and debate.

Well I apologise for not knowing the financial history of a computer company

Why did you bring it up then?

You said:

£150 million is lip service, Apple turned £7 billion profit in a quarter, that's more than my company, which is global, does in 4 years.

I was pointing out that the $150 million was invested at a time when Apple was making a loss.

You are perfectly entitled to your own opinions, but what lets you down is when you try to back them up with "facts" that are just wrong.

And what makes you look a complete idiot is that when people merely correct you on those points you suddenly come up with $hit like:

Well I apologise for not knowing the financial history of a computer company, I must have missed that while I was having a life.

There were some people here having an INFORMED discussion.

Why don't you go and get on with that "life" that you find so sadly lacking in the rest of us.

Oooh handbags! I had no idea I'd gatecrashed the Oxford Uni debating society, as for looking an idiot do you think I give a ****

Yeh, sorry, I did just make myself sound like a right pompous twit.

I was hoping you might have been a bit more contrite having had the chance to sober up.

as for looking an idiot do you think I give a ****

Clearly not.

I'm not sure that is something to be proud of though.

I wasn't drinking last night, I come here to let the Daily Mail in me (which is pretty large) flow; where would STW be without rash, uninformed people like me

We have other threads on here I'm sure you could make a useful contribution to, Ben. The question is, do you have what it takes to be a big hitter?

Anyone that pays £400-£500 more for a laptop just because its aluminium and has a paint by numbers OS is an idiot. I make no apology for that.

I'm an idiot 🙂 But I guess you could argue the same about the people who buy a Sony Vaio.

Anyone that pays £400-£500 more for a laptop just because its aluminium and has a paint by numbers OS is an idiot. I make no apology for that.

I bet you ride a really basic bike. No?

What has what bike I ride got anything to do with what computer I buy?

deadlydarcy - Member

....you choose to go on and spout about Syria, to detract from the failings of your own argument

But why, when your argument is failing a bit would you suddenly mention Syria? I mean...it's got bugger all to do with this thread?

BenHouldsworth has hardly been "spouting" about Syria, expressing his opinion by choosing to say :

[i]"He did a good job at marketing stuff but 3 days of greiving for him seems excessive given that 8 people were shot in Syria today and it's not even on the news."[/i]

is perfectly valid. Whether or not you, I, or anyone else, agrees with that comment.

It is clearly no less valid on a thread thread concerning Steve Jobs passing away than this post :

aracer - Member

We have other threads on here I'm sure you could make a useful contribution to, Ben. The question is, do you have what it takes to be a big hitter?

Pointless and meaningless posts like that, along with the use of tags, is a classic example of STW gang ridicule/bullying against those who take a minority viewpoint.

TopTip : try using the power of your argument to "win" an argument, instead of relying on school playground antics.

Pointless and meaningless posts like that

Am I being bullied by a gang? How exciting!

I was suggesting you might be an appropriate candidate to join one 😉

not into the sainthood/shrine/messiah reverence (that goes for anyone 'famous' like that druggy soul singer or the soldiershagger doe-eyed diana) but his contribution to the world of computing was a big one, thing is if you are an I.T. geek or work in an office with spreadsheets all day apples influence on your work is minimal or certainly no bigger than any other companies.

this sums it up quite well from the point of creatives who's industries were revolutionised by apple and it's products.

[url= http://creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2011/october/steve-jobs ]http://creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2011/october/steve-jobs[/url]

No thanks aracer, I'm a lone wolf

Anyone that pays £400-£500 more for a laptop just because its aluminium and has a paint by numbers OS is an idiot. I make no apology for that.

is it o.k if you do complex retouching, exposure blending/hdr*, edit in final cut pro*, use it to shoot tethered to a digital back* when on location and other 'creative' stuff like that?

*all on software that is not available for windows or is limited in functionality or lacks development(because the mac version is most popular) no powered firewire 800 on pc latop for location shooting either.

thing is if you are an I.T. geek or work in an office with spreadsheets all day apples influence on your work is minimal or certainly no bigger than any other companies.

But this is where so many people seem to be missing the point.

Apple computers are a tiny part of what Apple is now about, or has been about for the last 10 years. They even changed the name of the company from Apple Computer Inc to Apple Inc a couple of years ago.

Although Apple certainly led the way with many aspects of personal computing (not least in the way they made microsoft react with Windows) it has been the post ipod developments that have had the most impact on society - and that applies to office worker too in their home life even if they are running Office on PCs at work. Just look at how many times the ipod has been cited as a design influence on a massive range of products. Not only has Apple changed the face of consumer electronics it has also created a much wider expectation of good design generally.

Mr Smith, thats a fair point, what percentage of Mac owners do you think use them in this way, did apple finally release a backwards compat version of Final Cut? Good stuff 🙂

what percentage of Mac owners do you think use them in this way,

no idea.(don't care either!) i don't know anyone in my industry who uses a P.C. laptop apart from the 'suits' as that's what they get given to look at spreadsheets on, everyone else has a macbookpro. i know some companies that run some specific film writing software on p.c's but these never get connected to the internet and run fiber channel raids and graphics cards that cost more than a small car.

1freezingpenguin - Member
What has what bike I ride got anything to do with what computer I buy?

I thought my point was obvious and I'm sure you are not stupid:

You suggested that people who pay more for computers, simply because they are more attractive, or nicer to user, or for cache, are stupid.

By your logic, people who pay more for mountain bikes, simply because they are more attractive, or nicer to user, or for cache, are also stupid.

So you are calling a large minority people on this forum stupid.

So you are calling a large minority people on this forum stupid.

i would say a large majority on this forum are prone to acts of stupidity. you only have to look at Hora's posts to confirm this.

Where the **** in this thread have I called anyone stupid?

i don't know anyone in my industry who uses a P.C. laptop apart from the 'suits' as that's what they get given to look at spreadsheets on, everyone else has a macbookpro.

I've done video and web design on Windows 7, but I didn't need to use mac only software. If I was doing video more regularly I probably would have to get a mac though, Final Cut has nice tools despite needing to re-render sections of video all the ****ing time.

Final Cut has nice tools despite needing to re-render sections of video all the **** time.

if you use a fast laptop (like a new macbookpro) you don't even need to work on a proxy for short edits and any HD re-timing/grading is rendered in seconds.

For every product that Apple launched, there WAS no everyone else making the same kit, no Apple 1, no Mac, no iPod, no iPhone

Now I really don't think this is true. There's no question that Apple massively improved or even transformed most of those markets, which is their (note plural) true legacy and testament to brilliance, but they did not invent the personal computer, the MP3 player or the smartphone. Not even close.

We're not trying to belittle the man's achievements or denigrate him, we just want a sense of perspective. Hero worship of one man in fact belittles everyone else who was involved. Did anyone give a flying crap when Tommy Flowers died?

Well you've missed the point I was at some pains to make, which is that no product existed previously gat enhanced the user experience the way Apple did.

That's perfectly true.

if you use a fast laptop (like a new macbookpro) you don't even need to work on a proxy for short edits and any HD re-timing/grading is rendered in seconds.

I dunno, the iMac I've used and my hackintosh (better spec than most iMacs/macbooks) seem to take ages to render stuff, even just basic bits of text, dissolves and 3-way colour corrector were taking a long time. It's all stuff that was transcoded to ProRes as well rather than dumped straight in off the camera. Quite annoying but better than paying for Avid!

😆

Diana is dead???????

Diana is dead???????

evidently she ran off with the son of an Egyptian corner shop owner but he crashed his merc racing round the ring-road 🙁