[Closed] Speeding ticket, advice

Thing is, for everyone that objects to the police catching speeders there's someone else who thinks they don't do it enough.

If you don't believe me just pop along to a community council meeting.

I would rather drivers were watching the road and driving to conditions than having to focus on watching their speedo religiously in case someone is hiding in the bushes with a radar gun.

They may as well be done with all this crap and just put limiters in cars and automatically control limits. It's perfectly possible. No personal freedoms breached, and no possibility to breach speed limits. That'll make all the roads safer. But, no money for the police coffers

(assuming GPS is accurate), I'm pretty certain that's illegal.

Why would that be illegal ?

What! It's illegal to have an inaccurate GPS??

No wonder I got lost!

I would rather drivers were watching the road and driving to conditions

In principle I agree, but in reality, how many people do you trust to judge the ever changing conditions correctly and then drive accordingly? That's why there are defined speed limits.

nealglover - Member

I am not trying to prove you wrong.
Fine. If you are happy being an idiot, then that's ok.
At least you are aware of it

I will give you one suggestion about speed.

If you truly care about speed then propose to change Mph to KM/h and I can assure you the speed will go down tremendously.

🙄

edit:

thegreatape - Member
In principle I agree, but in reality, how many people do you trust to judge the ever changing conditions correctly and then drive accordingly? That's why there are defined speed limits.

You need to ask yourself this question ... in reality how many people died on an empty road without involving other people?

thegreatape - Member
If you don't believe me just pop along to a community council meeting.

I have a friend that is so petty about everything he wants to dictate his way of living on others. i.e. anyone that does not fit his view of living should not be out of the house at all ... that bad.

You need to ask yourself this question ... in reality how many people died on an empty road without involving other people

Two crashes, in 2014, that I've been to, that were fatal and involved only one vehicle. That's just in one small sub-division though - there might have been more in the rest of the country?

I have a friend that is so petty about everything he wants to dictate his way of living on others. i.e. anyone that does not fit his view of living should not be out of the house at all ... that bad.

An ideal community council candidate by the sound of it 🙂

I am just a little confused by the bit where you had to overtake him at that annoying speed of 70 mph. Is it safe to assume that after a couple of leap frogs you were going to drop him this time?
You think you were speeding, he thinks you were speeding, his machine agrees... I agree that prevention is much better than straight enforcement but you knew you were going to be speeding to get past.

I will give you one suggestion about speed.
If you truly care about speed then propose to change Mph to KM/h and I can assure you the speed will go down tremendously.

I'm not that bothered about speed really, not sure where I said I was.

I'm more bothered about people not paying attention to what's going on around them, like not seeing a radar trap and not knowing how fast they are going.

Oh, and idiots banging on on about zombie maggots and wishing police officers dead just for doing their job, obviously.

that will learn him

I got zapped for doing a massive 84mph on the M4 in the powerhouse that is a 54hp Fabia 1.2, on an otherwise unblemished licence.

Given I usually ride a 150hp Yamaha R1 for fun I sucked it up.

thegreatape - Member
Two crashes, in 2014, that I have personally had involvement with, that were fatal and involved only one vehicle. That's just in one small sub-division though - there might have been more in the rest of the country?

Well, to be honest the time is up for that driver (a common expression in other culture where self inflicted/accidental death happens) but on the positive note at least no others were involved. This is a none issue.

thegreatape - Member

I have a friend that is so petty about everything he wants to dictate his way of living on others. i.e. anyone that does not fit his view of living should not be out of the house at all ... that bad.

An ideal community council candidate by the sound of it

If we get similar people like my friend and you multiply that all over the country ... we are screwed. Absolutely. 😯

nealglover - Member
Oh, and idiots banging on on about zombie maggots and wishing police officers dead just for doing their job, obviously.

Is there a loss in pettiness of petty power? 🙄

Well, to be honest the time is up for that driver (a common expression in other culture where self inflicted/accidental death happens) but on the positive note at least no others were involved. This is a none issue.

I can add up the fatal crashes since January where people going too fast killed someone else, if you want?

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I would rather drivers were watching the road and driving to conditions than having to focus on watching their speedo religiously in case someone is hiding in the bushes with a radar gun.

Worthless argument. If you have no idea what speed you're going at without religiously watching the speedo you're a shit driver.

It's really not hard, don't pretend it is.

You need to ask yourself this question ... in reality how many people died on an empty road without involving other people?

I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head I've been to, I'd easily at least double that given sometime.

thegreatape - Member

I can add up the fatal crashes since January where people going too fast killed someone else, if you want?

Nahh ... I will get flamed all over if I apply other cultural thoughts on death. 😀

edit: I am referring to death by the driver him/herself and no others are involved. I mean like suddenly driving into a brick wall or something like that.

Drac - Moderator

I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head I've been to, I'd easily at least double that given sometime.

[b]
Like I said if the death does not cause other death other than the driver him/herself than that is a none issue.[/b] Get it?

Are you saying that if someone dies by their own hand it's okay?

I'm a little confused then as to why I needed to consider how many people died on an empty road without involving other people?

Is it ok for the police to do speed checks on cars that are not all alone - I.e. when others might be at risk?

Like I said if the death does not cause other death than that is a none issue.

to you morally and philosphically, possibly. In our society, and even from a cold economic perspective, it is an issue.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15975564

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/feb/26/transport.world

Speeding ticket, advice

molgrips - Member

Are you saying that if someone dies by their own hand it's okay?

You mean suicide?

Assuming you are. If a person is determined then s/he will eventually achieve his/her goal so nothing you can do about it. It is just a matter of how the person will commit his/her own suicide.

Ya, it is a none issue for me.

crashtestmonkey - Member
to you morally and philosphically, possibly. In our society, and even from a cold economic perspective, it is an issue.

Yes, I notice that.

Hence, you have rules all over that slowly creep into your space. I accept rules but the danger of rules in a run away zombie society is that rules have become an end by themselves.

😯

You mean suicide?

No I mean crashing into a brick wall say, accidentally.

EDIT Gaaah.. what am I doing.. do not argue with chewkw..

molgrips - Member

You mean suicide?

No I mean crashing into a brick wall say, accidentally.

Nahhh ... shit happens so none issue.

Well, it actually happened to me I kid you not. I drove straight into my parents' house/wall. I was supposed to brake but instead I stepped on the throttle. I was driving my uncle's Mazda 323 in those days ... well, the car was damage but not severely. The wall is still intact until today. 😯

Edit:

molgrips - Member

EDIT Gaaah.. what am I doing.. do not argue with chewkw..

Nahhh ... don't be silly who's arguing? 😯

Did you bump your head, perchance?

thegreatape - Member

Did you bump your head, perchance?

I got a scar on my head if that helps not from car but from a road/push bike if that helps. I fell and hit my head on a sharp metal bbq drum edge. Blood all over. Several stitches later back on the bike chased by dogs ... 😆

Nope. Still compute. The processor is still functioning fine.

Sounds like there's a good story there!

I once got a ticket for doing 95 in a 40. Contested it as I was driving up hill my mums 1 litre metro. Rolling road proved max speed of car was only 80. Paid for the test to be done at MIRA to confirm the top speed.

So funny in court when it was thrown out, was only doing just over 40 according to the speedo

having just re read the OP and skipped through cheekyw's ramblings

So I'll hold my had up and do the course, no point in disputing it. But the main thing that annoys me is the sneaky underhandedness of it. He would have had to put himself and others at risk to get in that spot running across 2 lanes to hide himself behind the barrier.

Anyone bothered to write a letter of complaint about this sort of behaviour?

Like I said if the death does not cause other death other than the driver him/herself than that is a none issue. Get it?

Who said it didn't?

Ermm! Got it?

Shit happens - what isn't on is how the officer went about getting the readin.
Your only "out" is how he took the measurement.
Forget about calibration, etc because they WILL have that covered.
You need to look at if he had it on a tripod - if he didn't then legally the reading is VOID.
It MUST be secured to prevent movement.
They can ONLY use a tripod outside of a vehicle or the support that uses the door/windowframe inside the vehicle.
They bend the rules massively on placement of camera vans, etc but the type approval for their use is very strict and is where the expensive lawyers get the tickets squashed.

hammyuk - Member
You need to look at if he had it on a tripod - if he didn't then legally the reading is VOID.
It MUST be secured to prevent movement.

Hmmmmmm, sounds like BS to me.

nealglover - Member

Why would that be illegal ?

C&U Regs.

You need to look at if he had it on a tripod - if he didn't then legally the reading is VOID.
It MUST be secured to prevent movement.
They can ONLY use a tripod outside of a vehicle or the support that uses the door/windowframe inside the vehicle.
They bend the rules massively on placement of camera vans, etc but the type approval for their use is very strict and is where the expensive lawyers get the tickets squashed.

Have you muddled up the rules/operating instructions for camera van equipment, which is very heavy, with those for hand held speed guns, which aren't?

No - regulations and type approval are VERY clear on how the devices MUST be set up and used.
Information is directly from several serving traffic officers who are also bikers.
They do something similar here in Hants at one particular site and you will always see the device on a tripod after a solicitor caused a huge court case to do with correct signage, usage, etc. There were hundreds of prosecutions quashed and fines returned!
It's one of those areas where because the public are generally ignorant to the fine print they can pretty much do as they please until someone with either the right knowledge or access to the information questions it.

What's the case that found they must be on a mount of some sort? I'd be interest to read it.

Poor targeting, reflective surfaces, "slippage", etc.
Even though the laser is stupidly fast in its return signal, there is still too great an error correlation hence the type approval and the ACPO guidelines clearly stating how they must be used.

The case of my mate down the pub?

About time the traffic laws were reviewed rather than used as another taxation for the unobservatant driver who drifts over speed limits put in place decades ago

You didn't "drift" over the limit - you deliberately broke it by a considerable margin.

So suck it up.

But there are so many different devices, a ruling that a particular method of using a specific device was incorrect would not automatically apply to every other device. Usually, when there is a judgement that far reaching then the information is circulated nationally so the police everywhere know about it. So I can't help but wonder if this was a ruling that applied to a specific situation? If you're able to find a link to the case, or even the name and year, I'd be interested in reading the rulings.

The case of my mate down the pub?

About time the traffic laws were reviewed rather than used as another taxation for the unobservatant

Radar Speedmeters are typically used as hand-held devices all of which are attended actively operated devices.
The speedmeter is aimed at the target vehicle at the front or rear with the radar beam being directed towards a target vehicle.
The vehicle will need to be tracked with the aiming sight to allow the instrument to make a satisfactory speed measurement of the target. Tracking of the vehicle should be maintained for a period of not less than three seconds wherein the speed of the target vehicle is indicated as being a steady speed that is in the opinion of the operator the speed at which the vehicle is being driven. The speed can either be constant or show an accelerating or decelerating reading that is commensurate with the operator’s observations. When satisfied the reading
is representative of the observations made the speed is locked into the device and recorded.

Not seen a radar gun for years, just lasers. Much more accurate targeting.

thegreatape - Member
But there are so many different devices, a ruling that a particular method of using a specific device was incorrect would not automatically apply to every other device. Usually, when there is a judgement that far reaching then the information is circulated nationally so the police everywhere know about it. So I can't help but wonder if this was a ruling that applied to a specific situation? If you're able to find a link to the case, or even the name and year, I'd be interested in reading the rulings.

Thats the issue - where the expensive lawyers get involved they will spend the money gathering all of the info, etc.
Joe Public can't afford that so pays the fine, gets the points.
I've personally seen the different devices being used, operators being trained, etc through work/friends and the differences are staggering in how they can/do read with tripod/handheld/vehicle.

Drac - Moderator

The case of my mate down the pub?

Your mate could be dead by now from self inflicted alcohol poisoning so is really a none issue surely? 😆

I bet you want some published scientific journals to even start a conversation, yes? 😯

mikewsmith - Member

WTF! Complain about people doing their job?

That's exactly how the bureaucrats will response. i.e. I work here and this is my job. A form of power play.

There are people doing job right and there are people deliberately attempt to use rules and job to exert power in a petty way.

😯

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