[Closed] Speeding advice - any experts about?

Just tried this. In 6th, putting the accelerator to the floor (past the kickdown) results in precisely nothing

Auto presumably?

it was the recommendation of the course trainer, who presumably knows what he is talking about

That is some assumption.

The trainer on my course was adamant that stomping on the brakes and invoking the ABS was the quickest way to stop a car. He might know THC, but physics was obviously not his strong point.

^^^ how do you stop a modern car more quickly than braking hard and invoking abs ? Assuming not icy etc ?

Threshold braking. Admittedly arder to achieve in poor traction conditions. But the point is threshold braking is the quickest. The big advantages of ABS is it's quicker than locked braking and allows steering control. When the ABS releases it's not braking, so the car is only actually braking some of the time, hence threshold being quicker.

If you attend a course tea and biscuits are provided. And you learn new skills.

What biscuits ? Clearly this is fundamental

Whilst threshold braking is indeed the fastest way to stop, the instructor was probably correct in saying that as 99% of the people attending the course would more than likely just plough into the back of the car in front if they had to stop in an emergency and tried threshold braking. Whilst it isn't the most hallenging technique in the world, to truly stop quicker than a modern ABS unit on a car with decent tyres, you have to get it absolutely perfect and in a real emergency, with no prior training, that just isn't going to happen. Modern car; just stamp on the middle pedal and let it sort itself out. Ditto with stability control etc. unless you are a driving God (well, this is STW....) then 999/1000 the car will stop better than you can. And in pretty much any condition. And with steering control.

The instructors position was that it wasn't possible to stop quicker, not that it was difficult but that it wasn't possible.

Update .. the biscuits are the posh 2 in a packet ones more Marriott hotel than travel lodge.
Sorry for the late reply, I've been building a engine to make my van faster.

^^This!!

They were chocolate chip cookies. And big. I had 4. 😀

Looks like you're maybe missing the point. Firstly, it was the recommendation of the course trainer, who presumably knows what he is talking about. Secondly, the idea, as he explained it, is that at 30mph most cars in 4th will feel 'about right' whereas if put into 5th or 6th the normal behaviour will be to accelerate up to 1500rpm or whatever feels 'about right' and then be speeding.

Auto presumably?

how do you stop a modern car more quickly than braking hard and invoking abs ?

Sanctimonious **** world. You've got evidence you weren't doing 35. Enjoy your day in court.

I *thought* that I was told to stay in 3rd in a 30 zone when I did my speed awareness course.
Not much use now I drive an auto most of the time.

There is me thinking the quickest way to stop a car is to run into something big and solid.......

Physics is obviously not my strong point...

Then why do you mention kickdown?

Cos it has one, though of course it's not actually a kickdown functionally, just that's what it feels like and it was easier to describe using a word rather than the paragraph I'm now having to type (though it's a fair question). I think perhaps it's an eco thing, to dissuade you from the loud pedal? Don't ask me, I didn't design the bloody thing.

I'm not trying to wriggle out of anything but, tbh and imo, a policeman would most certainly not have bothered to pull me over given the road, speed and conditions

lol, just for the speeding then...

BigJohn - Member
Sanctimonious **** world. You've got evidence you weren't doing 35. Enjoy your day in court.

It could easily be that in the offer of the awareness course standard practice is to round down the speed to the nearest integer number (hypothetically then anything up to 34.9 reads 34) then to round to the nearest integer for the prosecuted speed. As with anything measured properly there will be a tolerance, so long as that covers 34 & 35 I'd expect 10-15 with a couple of hard cases and free soap in the showers.

Cos it has one, though of course it's not actually a kickdown functionally, just that's what it feels like and it was easier to describe using a word rather than the paragraph I'm now having to type (though it's a fair question). I think perhaps it's an eco thing, to dissuade you from the loud pedal? Don't ask me, I didn't design the bloody thing.

Do you have a speed limiter function? On some cars with that you can override it by doing the equivalent of a kick down.

you needed a course to tell you not to use 5th or 6th gear at 30 ?

worse - someone else then went out and tried it ......

do you all hate your cars THAT much ? or are you all minicab drivers ?

Looks like you're maybe missing the point. Firstly, it was the recommendation of the course trainer, who presumably knows what he is talking about. Secondly, the idea, as he explained it, is that at 30mph most cars in 4th will feel 'about right' whereas if put into 5th or 6th the normal behaviour will be to accelerate up to 1500rpm or whatever feels 'about right' and then be speeding.

Which, as I demonstrated, is patently bobbins. At 30mph in 6th you'll not get it up to 1500rpm without written permission and two days' notice

err, we're actually saying the same thing here ! People instinctively change up through the gears to 5th or 6th after pulling away. If they do this in a 30 limit they are more likely to be sitting subconsciously at around 35-40 mph in 5th, whereas if they were conditioned to leave it in 4th, for the same 'normal engine revs' thy'd be doing 30 mph.

This was the point the awareness instructor was making. I;'m sure they are trained in technique and are not pitching to the driving elite of STW, who actually know how to stop a car without jumping on the brakes, despite that being taught to many of us by our driving instructors (accepting most cars have ABS)

how do you stop a modern car more quickly than braking hard and invoking abs ?

By being able to drive.

🙄

who actually know how to stop a car without [s]jumping on[/s] locking the brakes, as taught to many of us by our driving instructors

FTFY

^^ fair point on the 'locking', hence my original ref to ABS and subsequent edit 🙂

🙂

Just received a NIP. Driving back from France, 1.57am - 60 in a 50 on the M6. £100 fine. I was a cock. Suck it up buttercup.

I don't think it's a bad thing to get a speeding ticket once in a while. But it does irk when you are the only person on the road in the middle of the night.

Speeding advice

Don't.

Is my non-expert advice.

Typical STW response! He asked for on speeding, not not sppeding.

my expert advice is to push really hard on all the pedals util you find the one that makes you go faster. Then keep pushing har on that one and stop pushing on all the others, the important thing is to make sure you are in an area where you are not allowed to go as fast as you are going.

All this talk of 34/35 is missing the point.As far as I am aware you can be prosecuted for doing less than 30(any speed deemed inappropriate for the conditions) in a 30 zone as I am sure our STW Highway code and legal experts can confirm. This is something that they would probably teach you on a speed awaerness course.
I consider myself an STW driving god because my driving instructor once told me I had some of the best clutch control he had ever seen.He did go on to say that next time I should try putting the car in 1st rather than 3rd gear when pulling away at junctions 😳

Enjoy your day in court.

Nah, you don't even have to turn up nowadays. Just send your plea by post.

If the traffic allows, I use cruise to regulate the speed in 30/40/50 zones with my right foot covering the brake. It has become almost automatic as I have been doing this for 20+ years. Obviously It is not safe if there is lots of traffic, but in those conditions often the speed is below the limit anyway.

In 32 years driving I have yet to receive a speeding fine or other traffic conviction. I do find quite a few other drivers seem annoyed that I keep close to speed limits, when doing 42 in a 40 zone for example, but I just let them get on with it.

Edit: I am anal enought to check the speedo of each new car with a hand held GPS used by my passenger on a clear bit of road so I know the speed variation at 30/40/50, although of course this does change as tyres wear, but it gives some idea of true speed vs speedo. My current car is a pretty consistent +2 mph.

You received a NIP for 34 and then a summons for 35. I'd go and defend yourself and ask what the guidelines are (do some research on that force/their own guidelines/ring them up if need be to clarify). Then ask why the change of speed recorded between the two and subtly question validity and accuracy.

34mph would have shown a speedo of circa 37mph? What were the conditions like? Go in fair, honest and open.

No one is a saint when it comes to speed. Its using your common sense to the conditions and not being EXCESSIVE.

There are many crimes out there that need focusing on- excessive speed is one. 34mph isnt that IMO.

I got done for doing 34 in a 30.

On the course there was a bloke who'd been done for doing 33 in a 30. The course trainer didn't believe him, but he had copies of all the original documentation to show him.

Cougar - Moderator

That sounds like toot to me anyway, surely it's easier to speed accidentally in a gear that's still in its optimum power band? They teach you to drive at 30 in 4th gear rather than 3rd in driving lessons to keep revs low. I can't imagine you'd do a lot of speeding if you drove around at an indicated 30mph in 6th gear. With your foot to the boards you might get to 31mph in about a week, if it hadn't stalled first. I'll try it on the way home FOR SCIENCE

I was never taught to drive in a certain gear at a certain speed; you drive in the correct gear for the road conditions.

I think the point of all of this (which IainC I think, alluded to above) is that if you are in a 30mph limit and change too early to 4th/5th/6th the car will feel laboured, perhaps vibrate & rattle (mine does) and not pull at all. People generally will accelerate a bit to the point where the engine is 'happier' rather than change back to a more suitable gear.
In my car - 1.9TDi with 130bhp in a small car, 4th at 30mph doesn't feel right. I tend to leave it in 3rd on most occasions. In 4th, the engine is revving too low & feels juddery which makes the cabin a bit rattly (this is in a 12yr old Seat - you probably don't get the same rattles in a 6 month old BMW, or whatever). In 4th I tend to creep to around 35mph, which I don't do if I leave it in 3rd.
Leaving it in 3rd gear also means you can regulate your speed more easily & react to situations around you (someone pulling out of a junction ahead, for example) by just lifting off the throttle rather than having to apply the brake.

My wife's car is more powerful & quicker than mine (2 litre TDi with 140bhp in an Ibiza) but it also doesn't feel happy in 4th at 30.

hora - Member
You received a NIP for 34 and then a summons for 35. I'd go and defend yourself and ask what the guidelines are (do some research on that force/their own guidelines/ring them up if need be to clarify). Then ask why the change of speed recorded between the two and subtly question validity and accuracy.

There are many crimes out there that need focusing on- excessive speed is one. 34mph isnt that IMO.

34 isn't 40.

From here: if you hit someone at 30 you are 50% likely to kill them.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/killspeed.html

Saying this - you shouldn't cycle at 25mph+ should you..

Edit: I am anal enought to check the speedo of each new car with a hand held GPS used by my passenger on a clear bit of road so I know the speed variation at 30/40/50, although of course this does change as tyres wear, but it gives some idea of true speed vs speedo. My current car is a pretty [b]consistent +2 mph[/b]

Surely if you are anal enough to measure the variation, you would know that it can't be a consistent 2mph.

The variation must be a consistent % of the indicated speed.

2mph variation at 30 would be 4mph at 60.

[/pedant]

I think the point of all of this (which IainC I think, alluded to above) is that if you are in a 30mph limit and change too early to 4th/5th/6th the car will feel laboured, perhaps vibrate & rattle (mine does) and not pull at all. People generally will accelerate a bit to the point where the engine is 'happier' rather than change back to a more suitable gear.
In my car - 1.9TDi with 130bhp in a small car, 4th at 30mph doesn't feel right. I tend to leave it in 3rd on most occasions. In 4th, the engine is revving too low & feels juddery which makes the cabin a bit rattly (this is in a 12yr old Seat - you probably don't get the same rattles in a 6 month old BMW, or whatever). In 4th I tend to creep to around 35mph, which I don't do if I leave it in 3rd.
Leaving it in 3rd gear also means you can regulate your speed more easily & react to situations around you (someone pulling out of a junction ahead, for example) by just lifting off the throttle rather than having to apply the brake.

exactly, thankyou 🙂

No, actually with the past few cars I have had it is genuinely a fixed variation.
It used to be the case with cable driven speedos that the variation was a percentage ( often about 5% in the old days) but with modern cars, there is no direct link between the speedo head and the sensor. I believe the speed is taken from a variety of sensors and a variation is built in for 'safety' reasons and to allow for tyre degradation. In some cars I believe it is possible to code the speedos with an exact figure via the on board diagnostics

Before I had a GPS I used to calibrate the speedo using the markers on the side of the road that used to be there for this purpose. There was a set on the dual carriage way leading into reading from Basingstoke, just before the M4. As I said, anal. I have owned 28 cars and checked the speedos on all but the first few, so I have plenty of evidence over the years

Due to the gearing on my car 30 in 5th isn't right. To be honest if I sit at 50 on the M60 average works I'll sit in 4th gear @ 50 as the car seems 'happy' there too.

Do you have a speed limiter function? On some cars with that you can override it by doing the equivalent of a kick down.

Ah! Yeah, there is a Limit function next to the cruise control. I've never used it as I don't really see the point, I'd use the CC in preference. You might be on to something there.

People instinctively change up through the gears to 5th or 6th after pulling away.

Seriously? 😯

I'd have thought most people's instinct would be to change gear [i]later[/i], especially if they were prone to speeding. It's behaviour you're expressly taught out of in driving lessons, at 30mph you should be changing up into 4th unless you're going uphill.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone driving around in 6th at 30mph, though I suppose people are capable of anything.

As far as I am aware you can be prosecuted for doing less than 30(any speed deemed inappropriate for the conditions) in a 30 zone as I am sure our STW Highway code and legal experts can confirm. This is something that they would probably teach you on a speed awaerness course.

You can fail your test for failure to make progress, you're expected to drive at or near the posted limits unless conditions suggest otherwise. But you can't be prosecuted for driving too slowly on regular roads in and of itself, though if you were bimbling about everywhere without good reason then there might be a case for driving without due care / dangerous driving. There is a 'minimum speed limit' roadsign in THC but in a quarter of a century of driving I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh.

On motorways even, there's generally no minimum speed limit beyond not being dangerous. "Slow moving vehicles" are prohibited, is all.

I was never taught to drive in a certain gear at a certain speed; you drive in the correct gear for the road conditions.

It's a fair while ago now, but I remember being taught to change up to 2nd at around 10mph, up to 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30, all other things being equal. As you say, it's dependent of road conditions of course; I don't think it was ever supposed to be a hard-and-fast rule, just an idea for when a learner should be changing gear.

Alway makes me chuckle the amount of people who don't drive who reply to these sort of things.

Why?

[i]Alway makes me chuckle the amount of people who [s]don't drive[/s] NEVER SPEED! who reply to these sort of things.[/i]

I certainly don't see these people driving around. 😆

I remember being taught to change up to 2nd at around 10mph, up to 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30

So in a 30 limit, do you choose 4th and try to drive at 30 only? or drive in 3rd at 29 or less?

There is a 'minimum speed limit' roadsign in THC but in a quarter of a century of driving I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh.

Only one I've ever seen was for the Mont Blanc tunnel (obviously not the one in the Highway Code.)

Oddly enough, THC tends to make people drive very slowly indeed (although again, not the THC you were talking about 😉 )

Re the above what mileage in what gear. EVERY car is different depending on gearing and torque. For instance in a 6speed VAG diesel I was up into 6th long before I would in a petrol. In my 2.0 petrol I hang onto gears alot longer before shifting up. Partly because I like hearing the engine and whine of the parts 8)

[quote=stumpy01 ]I think the point of all of this (which IainC I think, alluded to above) is that if you are in a 30mph limit and change too early to 4th/5th/6th the car will feel laboured, perhaps vibrate & rattle (mine does) and not pull at all.

Which is the reason I don't change into 5th in a 30 zone, not because I'm worried about speeding.

People generally will accelerate a bit to the point where the engine is 'happier' rather than change back to a more suitable gear.

Well people are idiots aren't they, and this simply reinforces my impression of the level such courses are aimed at.

I remember being taught to change up to 2nd at around 10mph, up to 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30,

However since those dim and distant days, in my case 40 years ago 😳 , cars have gained an extra 2 gears and it was the view of the awareness trainer, and I can see his point, that the old 'top gear' i.e. 4th and 30 mph, is now 5th/6th and 40 mph. Obviously not all people fall into that simple subconscious behaviour, but the a fair percentage must , given that they made it a key point of the training...

But you can't be prosecuted for driving too slowly

Alway makes me chuckle the amount of people who don't drive NEVER SPEED! who reply to these sort of things.

I certainly don't see these people driving around.

I didn't say I never speed, but I don't do it by much very often, and certainly not in urban areas. If I hold people up, sorry.