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Aye okay then.
So if I sell up my £100k mid terrace and transfer my role with same pay to Kent or Suffolk I’ll be better off will I?
Of course I won’t, that’s why it’s a crap comparison. You are comparing somewhere with a low cost of living (Newcastle) to somewhere with a higher cost of living.
I really have no idea what your on about. The decent bits of Glasgow / Edinburgh / Dundee / Aberdeen / Perth are on the expensive side of the UK average housing costs wise. Newcastle is not a cheap place to live either. London, parts of SE & the home counties are a bit of an outlier.
Its not £1500 a year at 50 000 pa. its half that. check how its worked out. there is no way on earth its that much.
check the figures in the link I provided. It cannot be that much due to the very moderate increases
NO OOB - the tax cannot be raised a great deal unless its an increased burdon on the poor - because of the way the tax raising powers are limited. No power to alter allowances
tjagain
Member
Its not £1500 a year at 50 000 pa. its half that
its is TJ
Pop 50k in here and do the comparison between England And Scotland
50k in England = £37537 take home
50k in Scotland = £35993 take home
Have you tried to put £50k into the HMRC tax calculator?
I'm very interested in your alternate version of reality because it might save me a couple of thousand a year.
tjagian
Scots NHS for example cost 10% less in admin than in England. ie less than 10% of its budget compared to more than 20% in england
You sure about that figure?
The last report I read said that NHS Admin costs are running at 8% average. It's difficult to believe that would be possible if England, with 86% of the population was running at 20% admin as that would be, on its own over £24bn.
Also, you might expect that administration in England would be more expensive as there are more people, hospitals and facilities to manage.
Why does Scotland have so many hospitals?
NO OOB – the tax cannot be raised a great deal unless its an increased burdon on the poor – because of the way the tax raising powers are limited. No power to alter allowances
Not true. Scotland Act 2016 allows the Scottish Parliament to set rates *and bands*.
But not the personal allowance! That was my point. So the SNP cannot shift folk out of tax altogether so raising tax on those on moderate incomes means raising it on the poorest taxpayers as well
Daffy - its the money wasted on the fake internal market and the inefficiency this brings. 20% of the english NHS budget is spent on admin - some of it may be hidden in differnt budgets. the 8% figure is from long ago.
I suggest those of you who think you pay £1500 more tax on 50 000 pa actually look at the tax rates and work it out from first principles. Its simply impossible with the tax rates we have.
go on - look at the real numbers.
I suggest those of you who think you pay £1500 more tax on 50 000 pa actually look at the tax rates and work it out from first principles. Its simply impossible with the tax rates we have.
go on – look at the real numbers.
Whether it comes from the tax element, personal allowance, national insurance or whatever, the reality is someone earning 50k in Scotland has £1,500 less in their pocket than someone in England
In England the tax paid on earnings between 43,430 and 50,000 is 20% = £1314
In Scotland the tax paid on earnings between 43,430 and 50,000 is 41% = £2693
So the difference in tax between the two is £1379
This doesn't include any extra NI paid in Scotland
This doesn’t include any extra NI paid in Scotland
There isn't any. NI is not devolved
For 2019/2020 I believe the total difference is £1,544 pa and the additional amount recovered is roughly in line with the reduction in the Block Grant.
Here are the direct links to the calculations. The bands between England/ UK are completely different from those in Scotland
https://listentotaxman.com/50000?yr=2019®ion=scotland
https://listentotaxman.com/50000?yr=2019®ion=uk
Scotland Deductions
Total Tax = £9,042.36
NI = £4,964.16
Total deductions = £14,006.52
England Deductions
Total Tax = £7,498.20
NI = £4,964.16
Total deductions = £12,462.36
I forgot about the extra 1% on eranings between £24,944 to £43,430. That makes it up to £1500+ difference between Scotland and England.
I live in Scotland and I'm not objecting. Just calling out the TJ misinformation
I live in Scotland and I’m not objecting. Just calling out the TJ misinformation
Yip, same for me.
Happy to pay more for all the benefits we get (prescriptions, uni, childcare etc)
Of course, these figures don't include council tax, which hasn't been subject to the same rises as in England and Wales, so there is an offset there to consider.
The latest Scottish Tory leader also doesn't like taking responsibility for things apparently.
Ok
I forgot the huge rise in thresholds in England - I admit that which is what has made the difference - so that £1500 ( ish) is half tax rises in Scotland ( the numbers I had) and half tax cuts in england - the bit I forgot.
apologies!
tomd
Presumably the SNP want to attract the well paid jobs to Scotland, and taxing the shit out of them won’t help that
That's right, and why the answer is full fiscal control, ie independence.
No they don't like taking responsibility, much happier to continually blame Westminster for all the problems in Scotland. I wonder if in their much sought after utopian 'independent' nation,the one where they are somehow magically back in the EU regardless of facts like the ever increasing budget deficit exceeding 3% of GDP, forced to accept the Euro as the default currency etc, that theme would continue with constant beration of their new European masters. I think it would. So often wonder why they want independence when the reality seems like everything they shout about being oppressed in now would continue in other forms within the EU. I'm not sure they want independence at all, they seem a party who argue for the sake of argument, with no clear idea of how they'd actually go about enacting positive policy changes.
forced to accept the Euro as the default currency
Are you spouting that pish knowing it's bollocks or just repeating the bollocks you've been told in complete ignorance? The latter is slightly more forgivable.
What would be so bad about using the Euro? I often hear it used as a negative against an Indy Scotland joining the EU but just not sure why folk care, would save the hassle of changing currency when going abroad.
Yes we know that wouldn't have to use the Euro as shown by the 8 other countries in the EU who don't use the Euro.
What would be so bad about using the Euro?
Blah, blah, blah, taking back control, blah, blah, blah
Define abject disaster?
A decade+ of constant change and still no better than when it started.
An exam board that doesn't just examine but also sets the curriculum, that has made major changes to courses and exams almost every year sometimes after those courses have started.
Qualifications that are wholly unfit for purpose or the needs of pupils.
SQA produced assessment materials that contain serious factual inaccuracies.
Qualifications that are not valued by parents or pupils (N4)
Courses in S1-3 that do not correlate with S4-6 courses because they are produced by different bodies who essentially do not talk.
Inadequate detail on course content at all levels.
Virtually no course materials provided at national level - every school does their own thing and then gets criticised for inconsistencies.
An inspectorate that instead of upholding standards sets policy on an ad hoc basis.
Qualifications that are assessed through ridiculous tick box excercises.
Limited materials produced by SQA and then withdrawn leaving no official assessment materials.
Inconsistencies in what school produced materials the SQA approves.
Changes in the marking standard applied after courses have begun and sometimes after exams have been sat.
Record breaking levels of stress and absence among pupils and teachers.
Schools being urged to deliver units of work solely to improve their statistics rather than pupil outcomes.
Massive overemphasis on examinations.
Key assessment information buried deep in massive documents or not in the documents at all. It's not uncommon to find out key information by word of mouth.
Large parts of the above predicted and consistently raised by teachers and unions but not acted on.
I could go on and on TJ but you probably get the idea.
When it comes to education I don't know of any teachers who are happy with the SNP's handling of it. My wife was a primary teacher (now a tutor). she left because the job has changed so much over the years that it made her ill. Many others in a similar boat it really is a profession in crisis.
Despite that we both still voted SNP in the last election as there is no other option in our minds. Am I pro Indy? Well I am certainly moving that way with the way things are going.
Despite that we both still voted SNP
I've voted SNP in the past but their handling of education put me off doing so last time.
I'm another one happy to pay a wee bit more tax for the much improved services that we get here in Scotland. I don't earn a lot as a public servant (much less than £50k) but know, from the inside of the system, that we get a better value deal here by a fair margin. And anyone earning around £50k can readily afford an extra £125 a month to contribute to better services and a much better way of life.
Plus, I pay my taxes. All of them. No ifs, no buts, no trusts, no contrived insolvencies, no arrangements, no offshore tax havens nor managed service companies. Social responsibility is an alien concept to some people.
Are you spouting that pish knowing it’s bollocks or just repeating the bollocks you’ve been told in complete ignorance? The latter is slightly more forgivable.
No I don't believe I'm 'spouting pish' if my understanding of this colloquial term is correct. Countries which are currently applying for EU membership but are outside the criteria, again let's use deficlet's v GDP for example, have to compromise for entry. The EU negotiate the use of the Euro as compromise for entry where acceptance requirements are not met, with good economic reasoning for this in a country that has established that it cannot control it's debt. I'm not saying being in the Euro currency is a negative choice or even a term of acceptance that would be leveraged and accepted by the SNP, just that the SNP could perhaps not have full independent control in leaving the UK to join the EU, thus would continue their constant rhetoric of Scotland's woes being of other establishments control or lack of. These were my examples to support the OP in their observations of the SNP not liking to accept responsibility. I was not giving my views on an independent Scotland's political landscape, just giving possible scenarios as to where I support the OP in that the SNP do not like to shoulder responsibility.
A decade+ of constant change and still no better than when it started.
Better is a subjective term. Overall exam results fluctuate by small percentages. What were they like 10 years ago?
An exam board that doesn’t just examine but also sets the curriculum, that has made major changes to courses and exams almost every year sometimes after those courses have started.
Is the exam board the SNP? Why is setting the exam and the curriculum bad? Changes to courses and exams after the courses have started? Sounds like a pretty good preparation for the real world.
Qualifications that are wholly unfit for purpose or the needs of pupils.
How so? Has something changed from my day when, for example a University said you need 4 B grades at higher? Are the qualifications out of line with the demands of higher education?
SQA produced assessment materials that contain serious factual inaccuracies.
Are the SQA and the SNP the same organisation?
Qualifications that are not valued by parents or pupils (N4)
Why not?
Courses in S1-3 that do not correlate with S4-6 courses because they are produced by different bodies who essentially do not talk.
Have the SNP told the 2 bodies not to talk? Do they never speak?
Inadequate detail on course content at all levels.
At the direction of the SNP?
Virtually no course materials provided at national level – every school does their own thing and then gets criticised for inconsistencies.
When I was doing my highers back in the 1990s, our course material was photocopies from Carluke Highschool. The reason given was they were one of the first schools to implement Highers in Scotland. How come I managed to get 8 highers back in the 90s with no national level materials?
An inspectorate that instead of upholding standards sets policy on an ad hoc basis.
What does that even mean?
Qualifications that are assessed through ridiculous tick box excercises.
Welcome to the real world. Not an SNP specific problem
Changes in the marking standard applied after courses have begun and sometimes after exams have been sat.
Has been going on since my time at school and probably long before that. For example moving the pass marks for grades to ensure a certain amount of each grade is achieved
Record breaking levels of stress and absence among pupils and teachers.
Always been like that and again, welcome to the real world.
Schools being urged to deliver units of work solely to improve their statistics rather than pupil outcomes.
Massive overemphasis on examinations.
as opposed to uni or employers accepting pupils based on being the best fighter in the year, or top shagger?
Key assessment information buried deep in massive documents or not in the documents at all. It’s not uncommon to find out key information by word of mouth.
A few points ago you were moaning about insufficient documentation. Now there's too much info?
I think you just have to agree you will adopt the Euro in due course but set out the conditions you want to get to to adopt the currency. That may take quite a few years. So no impact in the short term.
I’m still not sure why they voted leave down south. What are these bad things our European masters have done to us? Is this just an abstract concept in your mind Lotto?
What are these bad things our European masters have done to us? Is this just an abstract concept in your mind
I never said European masters have done anything to 'us' ? I'm saying the SNP could possibly exchange what they espouse as control by a third party for possibly the same situation within the EU, thus the SNP would continue the rhetoric of Scotland being behest of others and continuing to fail to accept responsibility in support of the OP observations. My personal view is that whatever form an independent Scotland was to achieve then the SNP would be very unlikely to stay in power. In the long term at least, as other political parties and polices may become more attractive under different leadership and direction.
Education is a mixed bag of some OK and some not OK - and those responsible are a mix of local authorities, quangos and the scottish government. the link I put up before from the national shows the good side. I know some teachers in both england and scotland and no doubt the scots ones have a better job in many ways - but yes its far from perfect but hardly a disaster either.
Its one area where the SNPs centralizing and controlling instincts have not worked as well as they might - but they only set policy in broad. Local authoritys actually control the schools.
And anyone earning around £50k can readily afford an extra £125 a month
How do you know what someone can and can't afford? 50k is alot if you are a single person with no dependencies. 50k isn't all that much if you are the sole earner in a family of 4 with a decent sized morgage to pay. I'm not saying you'd be on the poverty line, but I'm sure in that situation you'd miss 125 quid in you pocket every month.
If you can't run a family & home on £50k you're doing something far wrong.
That's a lot of money and leaves plenty of wriggle room for modest luxuries.
Don’t know so much I’m skint & waiting for pay day. I get a lot more than that and I have no mortgage, no car loan & I didn’t have council tax to pay this month. Think I’m just shit at being careful with money.
WTF do you spend it all on? thats a lot of avocado toast.
I do like the way that some people say that someone on £50k should be able to afford £125 a month to give to the Scottish Government. It just sounds like the politics of envy, spending someone else's earnings.
And whilst I'm here, the SNP is and has been for the last decade the Scottish Government. the two are synonymous. To split the two as different organisations is being blind to the fact. The SNPs record in government is not good, too many indicators heading the wrong way. As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job. They can (and do) blame Westminster, but the rest of the UK has had the same austerity and seems to have done better.
The SNP is now stuck. It realises that it has a limited time to make the case for independence before the general population get bored of them doing it. At some point they will lose control of the Scottish Parliament (if you are the dominant party there is only one way to go) at which time independence will go on the back burner. The forthcoming trials (plus the recent resignation) do not help the image of the SNP. SO the SNP must act now - hence all the noise. Westminster, in particular No. 10 hold all the cards.
^ squirrel
@boardinbob it would take hours to answer all your points as most of them are based on misconceptions about how the Scottish education system works or based on being a client in that system 20+ years ago rather than a provider today.
If I have a spare hour later I'll try to correct to some of your more obvious errors. 🙂
Totally agree with your appraisal sadmadalan.
Sadmadalan
Unfortunately you only have the misinformation from the union press to go on. In many measures the Scottish government are doing a decent job and have done what they can to mitigate the ills of austerity. Look at the link I put for the other side of the story.
The SNPs record in government is not good, too many indicators heading the wrong way. As someone living South of the border, I find it strange that the Scottish Government/SNP are spending some much time, effort (and money) on setting out the case for an independent country, but failing in the day job
Actually the unionist parties spend much more time talking about the SNP talking about independence than the SNP do, most performance metrics are improving and are better than in england, we have no bedroom tax, we have lower waiting times for A&E, we have a lowering crime rate etc etc. Read the national link ( accepting its own bias)
They are not perfect by any means and I think after 10+ years in power they like all governments are beggining to run out of steam and need to be refreshed but compared to the dysfunctional mess in Westminster they are so much better
I’m saying the SNP could possibly exchange what they espouse as control by a third party for possibly the same situation within the EU
Yep, Scotland in the EU is exactly like being in the UK. Who can forget the EU telling the UK they couldn't have a referendum to leave and the long, drawn-out legal battles that followed.
If you can’t run a family & home on £50k you’re doing something far wrong.
That’s a lot of money and leaves plenty of wriggle room for modest luxuries
I'm not saying you can't run a family home on that. But you won't have lots left over, so to my point, you would miss 125 quid a month.
I have plenty of mates who have family incomes around that, and once they have paid the morgage, paid off their car loan (and they don't have 50k audis before you assume they do), and paid for all family essentials and treats for kids they don't have much left over.
I don't know how much you earn but I'm sure if you cut back on all the things you didn't really need then you could probably spare money to pay extra tax as well. That's not to say you wouldn't miss it. Fact is people don't work hard to mearly get by..