[Closed] Sir Elton John receives the greatest gift of all!

Oh DO get lost, you couple of tiresome homophobes. 🙄

trailmonkey's talking sense on this one. They are being totally selfish. To adopt a child in their position is one thing but to go out an engineer one is something totally wrong as far as I'm concerned.

And please, no one is being homophobic. The whole 'is it because he is gay' thing is getting really tiresome now.

Engineer? They used a surrogate!!! If your going to go down the whole 'it's wrong to create a human with scientific assistance' which is what you seem to be saying then we're heading towards a whole different argument surely?

But hey, this thread has it all, homophobia, ageism and prejudice against those with mental health issues. What is going on.

Elton is going to be essentially sponsoring a child isn't he?

I mean, he's not going to be getting up in the night to feed it, change its nappies, read bedtime stories, sit in A&E, iron school uniforms, make packed lunches and so on; he's going to pay someone else to do it.

...like many other children of the idle rich I suppose.

I'm sure the odd birthday party will be featured in Hello magazine, and cutely dressed little un will get in the papers tho..

But hey, this thread has it all, homophobia..........

Where ? You might accuse me of sexism by daring to suggest that children should ideally have a mom but do you know what, I'll live with that if I thought that that weight of opinion might make childrens lives' better.

But the Pilot is right, all this 'izzit cos dey is gay' stuff is pretty lame.

What about a female - female couple?

My dad died when I was 16. He was 59. I guess, going by the state of this board, he should have had me when he was 20 or something....

Lets ignore the gay aspect of it, however hard it is for people to do here. The biggest question is 'will the child have a good life'. He'll certainly not want for anything. He'll be brought up with a nanny I should think. The only views we have of Elton/David are the things on the telly, I don't know what they are really like so can't really say.

I even say that about Fatcha. I abhore her policies and she came over like an evil monster but I only saw what was on the telly. For all I know she's a really nice person. Saying that, look how her son turned out! 😀

The phrase about taking planks out of your own eyes keeps coming to mind here....

You might accuse me of sexism by daring to suggest that children should ideally have a mom

We don't live in an ideal world. And the most salient point is that the child is loved, not the gender of the person caring for it. And you didn't suggest that children should ideally have a mom, you put it a lot more strongly than that. How do you feel about fathers for example? Are they expendable?

FFS canigetoffendedforyouworld strikes again.

No we don't live in an ideal world, however for the nth time, this isn't about a child being saved from an imperfect situation, this is about a child being borne into one out of design. Yes i do feel strongly about it, it's horrible that a child should not have a mom, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm sure that there are lots of fantastic fathers out there who have struggled through terrible circumstances to bring up kids on their own and have raised wonderful children but that's not the issue that we're talkin about is it ?

Trailmonkey - then please elucidate: what *is* the issue?

The point I was making is that there are lots of people who grow up in families which are not mom+dad +2.5 kids. There are plenty on here, including me. If you think that some of those families situations are horrible, and you wouldn't wish it on anyone, then I pity your ignorance because it is perfectly possible for those families to produce well balanced decent human beings.

Methinks the homophobe protesteth too much...

Trailmonkey - then please elucidate: what *is* the issue?

this is about a child being borne into an imperfect situation out of design.

There are plenty on here, including me. If you think that some of those families situations are horrible, and you wouldn't wish it on anyone, then I pity your ignorance because it is perfectly possible for those families to produce well balanced decent human beings

Of course there are and of course it is but how many of those situations were contrived ? Really, is it that bad a thing to wish that children at least have the chance of a mother ? Jesus 🙄
And my knowledge of a family situation being horrible is not borne of ignorance so reel your own in a little.

trailmonkey, you've made some worthwhile points about his age but this has me intrigued can you explain it

choosing for a child not to have a mother is despicable.

Because I think deliberately depriving a child of it's/a mother is a horrible thing.

Do you know what ? If that makes me a bad person then shoot me.

If you think it makes me a homophobe then you're a tard.

Over and out.

Well bugger me,(old northern saying)Congratualtions on David and elton becoming fathers, if baby Zachary could choose his parenmts who do you think he would choose, some woman, film or popstar, so far oop there own arse the baby is just seen as a token like a handbag, with a husband who is a bit thick, but has a saleable face. Quite a few around to see.

Or Elton and David 2 multimillionaires , who have wanted a baby and a child that the baby grows into for a long time. Two people who can pay for decent care, and a possible uni education in latter life.

Best wishes to them.

What about a female - female couple?

2xMum = Awesome > 2xDad

Because I think deliberately depriving a child of it's/a mother is a horrible thing.

clearly but why was my question, I had no father its not really bothered me, is that not as bad in your eye?

Trailmonkey, you'll probably find that a reasonable percentage of those situations were contrived, in that people with free will made the decision for the family not to be a normal unit. I'm sorry about your family situation. To speak plainly, your strong desire to see every family with a mother does imply that those without are incomplete, [i]lacking[/i] in some way which makes the situation "horrible". Would you feel the same way about two women, for example?

I just feel that a loving family unit is the important thing, the nature of its constituent parts less so. Whether Elton John and his partner can provide that is something none of us can know. And as others have suggested, there are factors involved that I'd see as being more relevant than the sex of either parent.

Over and out.

Re surrogacy Emma82, well what is it other that engineering? And yeah, with so many people on the planet and so many unwanted kids in the world I do think people should at least think before exercising their 'right' to have a child.
And re two women having a child, yep I think it's wrong to deliberately deny your child a father, just as much as it's wrong to deliberately deny it a mother.

To me, this smacks of self-indulgence. It will however provide employment a-plenty for all the outsourcing that will inevitably take place.

I'm tending to agree with trailmonkey, crikey and The Pilot.

But then, what do I know?

C_G
mother of 2 adult children brought up in the 'traditional' way.

So it's not about the parents being gay....but if me and my gf have a child, pilot and Trailmonkey think it's wrong, so it is about us being gay?

You can't have it both ways guys

What about a female - female couple?

I think it's wrong to deliberately deny your child a father, just as much as it's wrong to deliberately deny it a mother.

Why? Would you then force people in unhappy relationships (or indeed, no relationship at all) to stay together?

[i]We know a [s]lesbian[/s] couple who adopted.[/i]

There's no real need (other than in the context of STW...) for the sexuality of parents to be related or even considered. There is a significant difference between adoption and surrogacy, and even more difference between surrogacy and paid-lots-of-money-by-celebrities surrogacy.

Okey dokey, it's not an argument that anyone can win because peoples opinions are engrained in them so I'll leave it there. I'm sure elton and David won't give two hoots either way. They'll be too busy watching their nanny change nappies and make bottles 😆

Edit: 63 is far too old to be a father.

There is a significant difference between adoption and surrogacy, and even more difference between surrogacy and paid-lots-of-money-by-celebrities surrogacy.

I agree

He/she/it'll never want for flowers anyway....

To lighten the mood somewhat; I was grumbling to the gf who's taking up most the dining room with course work * points to mound of text books where there was once a gf* about this thread and she went White as a sheet

"isn't it a bit soon to be talking about families?"

Haha LOLing at her.

We know a lesbian couple who adopted.

There's no real need (other than in the context of STW...) for the sexuality of parents to be related or even considered. There is a significant difference between adoption and surrogacy, and even more difference between surrogacy and paid-lots-of-money-by-celebrities surrogacy.

crikey - just for the record, the 'fix' was not required. My response was direct to emma's earlier question - I was merely confirming the couple concerned are female and gay. I wasn't not making any other form of statement on the sexuality of the couple or their suitability to adopt...

Emsz it does look a little like you're playing sexual politics here. None of the remarks are neccessarily homophobic but it does look like you're trying to push that as an agenda.

I don't believe that same sex couples should be allowed to adopt either. I believe, like TrailMonkey, that children need both a mother and a father.

On that basis, I don't believe that single people should be allowed to adopt on the same basis.

That's got nothing to do with sexuality primarily and everything to do with what I believe to be important for society. But the byproduct is that in that world, you would have a policy that does treat same sex couples differently to hetrosexual couples. My whole life I've been an ardent defender of equality and in particular gay rights.

These views were formed early in my career when I actually acted as a witness for a close friend (who has since died of Aids) who was bullied out of his job because he was gay. He brought a case and acted as a witness for him at the tribunal. It cost me my job but I felt very strongly about what I had seen.

So, I am not sure whether believing that a child needs a mother and a father makes me homophobic or not in everyone else's mind, but it doesn't in mine.

I am not sure whether believing that a child needs a mother and a father

why do you think that?

have I stumbled on mumsnet or the Daily Fail website?

WGAF about stuff like this? Why are so many so quick to judge?

The couple are free to do what view have done. Plenty of kids born into worse situations.

Get over yourselves! This makes the VPP thread look heavenly!

geetee1972 - Member
Emsz it does look a little like you're playing sexual politics here. None of the remarks are neccessarily homophobic but it does look like you're trying to push that as an agenda.

I don't believe that same sex couples should be allowed to adopt either. I believe, like TrailMonkey, that children need both a mother and a father.

On that basis, I don't believe that single people should be allowed to adopt on the same basis.

So, I am not sure whether believing that a child needs a mother and a father makes me homophobic or not in everyone else's mind, but it doesn't in mine.

Posted 1 minute ago # Report-Post

So what happens when the kids parents divorce, row every day, become alchoholicsor druggies, or even one dies.

What happens to the kid the, the parent has to get married straightaway to give the child 2 parents.

Sadly gay bullying is still there from both sides it appears.

So what happens when the kids parents divorce, row every day, become alchoholicsor druggies, or even one dies.

It's a tragedy. In the case of divorce we should be aspiring for it not to happen, but it does happen and in those cases it's a tragedy. In the case of one parent dying, that's even more of a tragedy.

But none of that is the same as saying that the state is going to sponsor the situation as something that is OK.

Sadly gay bullying is still there from both sides it appears.

This is precisely what I mean by 'sexual politics' - this is turning an argument that isn't there to suit a political view based on sexuality.

I believe, like TrailMonkey, that children need both a mother and a father.

But you're wrong. It may be preferable in some cases but it isn't a need. And in many cases it's preferable that the mother and father are not together.

For you to say that divorce is a tragedy is odd, and completely at odds with my experience.

C_G
mother of 2 adult children brought up in the 'traditional' way

Nuff said

without offending anyone for a change is this not a case of "I want" and money talks

Presumably the complainees were just as prompt in raising these objections when Ms Ciccione and Mrs Pitt went shopping for babies and can qoute the threads wherein they did this?

If not, why not? How is this one different? Ah-Haaa....

I wasn't going to comment here because, frankly, I have more interest in China's rice export figures for 1984 than I do in some celebrity and their partner adopting an anklebiter.

However, I'm somewhat surprised at some on the opinions being expressed here, I thought I'd inadvertently scanned into the Daily Mail forum for a moment. So.

Let's look at this.

They're two blokes, so no mother. This is a straw man - they'll have an entourage looking after the kid day-to-day, nannies and the like, there'll be no shortage of mother figures. Plenty of kids grow up well-adjusted whilst being brought up by single parents.

He's old. Well, ok, but a lot of people are - maybe he'll pop his clogs when he's 80; the kid will be 20 by then, and will want for nothing.

They bucked the system. Bone of contention maybe, but whilst he didn't meet the Ukranian criteria a couple of years ago (or the British - did they try here too?) he clearly met the US ones. So what are we really saying here, the US adoption system isn't strict enough? That's not really a criticism you can lay on the couple though.

He's got a history of addiction. Fine, but he's clean now isn't he? Are we judging people on their past rather than their present now?

Are they fit parents? Who knows. I know little about Elton John or Mypartnerdavidfurnish beyond the facade presented in the media. What I do know though is that plenty of scumbags reproduce every day, without any screening process whatsoever. The adoption system is bursting with kids who have been removed from unfit parents. Is our outrage misplaced perhaps?

Finally, they're gay. Care more?

But you're wrong.

My experience of life is that they do. Your experience of life is likely to be different and you may have reached a different conclusion.

I can accept your conclusion is different to mine. But to say either is wrong is arrogant and ignorant.

Greatest gift of all ? I've got four kids but I had some lovely pants given to me at Christmas , mmm

[i]Emsz it does look a little like you're playing sexual politics here. None of the remarks are neccessarily homophobic but it does look like you're trying to push that as an agenda.[/i]

Geetee some people on this thread have used the word despicable when describing a family without a mother or father, seeing as it is impossible for a gay couple of either sex to provide that they must therefore think gay families are despicable as well. A quick google reveals Rod Stewart (old singer) to be father at 60+ and Bob Geldof a single father at 59 adopting his ex wife's (died of drug overdose, shall we discuss lifestyle choices of gay people now?) child. No one mentions them at all.

This thread has been a thinly disguised "oh look at the Gay men buying a baby" From the start

Has anyone yet explained their reason(s) for believing it necessary for a child to have a mother and a father?

Is such a belief just that, a belief, or is there some proper, studied evidence to support such a position?

The couple are free to do what [s]view [/s]they have done

Well in some countries they are - like the USA. But they wouldn't be in the UK which is where Elton has his "main residence".