Erm - how do you know what charts Mermaids use, rene59?
Twitter censorship again
A user is suspended until they delete their tweet (referencing misleading murder figures) quoted by Jeremy Vine.
This user said 'fortunately very, very few trans people murdered in this country'
https://twitter.com/PilgrimTucker/status/1095681379143241729
The (horrifying) murder figures for trans Brazilian sex workers are regularly bandied about as though the refer to the UK.
Similarly, questionable suicide figures are frequently shared, despite condemnation from The Samaritans.
Erm – how do you know what charts Mermaids use, rene59?
According to this in the spectator it has been used. (No idea on the truth of it though)
According to this in the spectator
🙄
The mermaids chart in action
https://twitter.com/MichaelConroy68/status/952235320665362433
Erm – how do you know what charts Mermaids use, rene59?
Erm - why wouldn't I, allthegear?
Rolleyeyes followed by the same chart in use, including mermaids logo
Just because you don’t like the source it doesn’t make it false. 👍
Twitter censorship again
A user is suspended until they delete their tweet (referencing misleading murder figures) quoted by Jeremy Vine.
This user said ‘fortunately very, very few trans people murdered in this country’
If your going to post the tweet, at least quote what it says... they said more than you quote and the tone of what was in the rest of the tweet is quite different to the last line.
I have no idea about Greer’s attitude to trans people, but she does have some very odd attitudes to other things; she was on a programme about the exhibition Amazing Bodies (IIRC), which displayed anatomical models for use by medical students. All of the displays were artificial, using materials like silk, wax, etc, but she started ranting about how it was disgusting, pornographic, it should be banned...
I saw the exhibition, and I saw her rant on telly, and all I could think was, ‘daft old bat, has she been drinking?’ Nothing she said made any sense at all.
Mad as a bag of owls.
Is the US still tolerant?
Well, 60 years or so ago they segregated people on the basis of race so they’ve certainly been going in the right direction over the last century or so.
I certainly don’t have any objections to their 1st amendment.
You may not, but it seems that many in America do, the incumbent POTUS for starters. His continual attacks on the press and media in general are having a severe impact on freedom of speech. Or hadn’t you noticed the reports in the press, in particular the direct attack on a BBC reporter at a dTrump rally by a bloke wearing a MAGA hat?
Then there’s the demonising of anti-Fascist groups, and their labelling by the FBI as terrorist groups when they confront the likes of the KKK, who are ‘very fine people’, according to Agent Orange.
I get a lot of American news feeds through Flipboard, and what they show is that America is still a Confederate country at heart, and has a layer of intolerance that hasn’t diminished in the last century or so.
Germaine Greer was critical of the #MeToo movement, which made her very unpopular with a lot of women
If your going to post the tweet, at least quote what it says… they said more than you quote and the tone of what was in the rest of the tweet is quite different to the last line.
If you are going to criticise the non posting of a tweet, could you not have posted it yourself (I don’t use twitter so have no idea what it says)
Neal, can you not see the preview of the link on this thread? I've noticed this forum now showing clickable previews like facebook does when you paste a link.
The full text reads
"Very sorry, but you are factually incorrect. In the UK between 2008 and 2017 there were more trans identified males who killed other people, than there were trans people murdered. Fortunately there are very, very few people murdered in this country"
neal
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/silencing-of-free-speech-gender-wars/page/4/?bbp_reply_to=10486004&_wpnonce=4bb54df478#new-post
In this post, just up the page, you can read it without being on twitter.
Cool. Cheers 👍
I still dont get why technically is posting all this guff??
Are you a russian troll?
Indeed.
Can the site devs hurry up with that "ignore user" function please?
Well to me that Tweet will be the Twitter auto filters picking up on keywords creating a false negative rather than a block for pointing out Jeremy Vine is wrong.
Indeed.
Can the site devs hurry up with that “ignore user” function please?
You don't have to open every thread.
This thread was started in good faith. You may choose to choose to think otherwise.
You might also feel the thread started about me is hilarious banter. I might feel it's bullying but, I'm an adult, not a cry baby, so I'm ignoring it.
A few posters seem to agree that proper debate is not happening.
Well to me that Tweet will be the Twitter auto filters picking up on keywords creating a false negative rather than a block for pointing out Jeremy Vine is wrong.
and I reckon with a little practice you could trigger those more frequently, but that is a deeper question about motivations for some people
this was linked here last week I think
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p06y74zp/altright-age-of-rage
Some interesting tactics going on there, quite a few people cleverly playing a part out there.
Source of that accusation?
Rachael Perman was outed, nationally, as a result of Greer.
Legitimate concerns are not the same as outright transphobia. Yeah there are people that don't know how to accept challenge and respond appropriately but that's hardly unique to this debate. Just pick any multiple page topic on here to see that in action.
One thing I do find amusing is the amount of otherwise right wing or misogynistic guys that are suddenly champions of feminism when it comes to "concerns" regarding trans rights. I suppose it's a bit like them not liking brown people unless they are killing the brown people they like even less. Not that I'm implying everyone with such concerns fits that picture but there is certainly a Venn diagram overlap there.
I have seen no articles that accuse Greer of outing Rachael Perman.
From what I gather, she objected to Permanently appointment at a time when women were and still are finding it difficult to get appointed to more senior positions due in part to poor support for motherhood.
You might also feel the thread started about me is hilarious banter. I might feel it’s bullying
What was that about free speech?
Just sling yer hook you weasel.
I have seen no articles that accuse Greer of outing Rachael Perman.
it can't be?
Pete Hegseth denies existence of germs, saying: ‘I can’t see them, therefore they’re not real’
🙂
What was that about free speech?
Just sling yer hook you weasel.
I said I was was ignoring it, so your response is to have a go at me?
I said I was was ignoring it, so your response is to have a go at me?
Pretty much standard fare from that one, so don't think you're special 🙂
A 'TrollFarmWorld' thread would be much more interesting you know inept.. go on, show us yer troll farm!!
I’m bewildered at the best of times, but this thread is a real eye opener. WTF is that chart all about, Barbie and GI Joe, really? Women not violent, gender wars, police queuing outside Greggs. What’s happening?
It's not quite correct to say greer outed Rachael Padman- she had been living as a woman for nearly 2 decades and had been open about it at work and in her circle, so it wasn't a secret.
But what Greer did was take her life and privacy and blow it up into a news story. Since it's Greer, there's no way to know if she did it because of genuine transphobia, or just because she's a horrible publicity seeking arse- it could be that she resented the fact that she totally lost the argument within the college and so decided to make it into a massive public mess out of spite. Or it could be that she just sensed a way to get in the headlines again, just before her new book. For sure she used the language and arguments of transphobia but that might have been cynicism or convenience rather than a genuine belief- wouldn't be the first or last time.
(Weirdly Padman wasn't the first trans person in the all-woman college, she was just the first that was unlucky enough to annoy Germaine Greer. She was, otoh, the first woman at her previous all-male college, but apparently that's the wrong sort of feminism)
Anyway, Greer got to resign from the college before she was kicked out, and never made any retraction or apology, so she probably thought she'd done just fine- bizarrely she got a public apology from the Guardian who accused her of essentially being a horrible arse, and quoted her unsympathetically yet accurately, but Padman never received any apology. I met her one time at work, she's pretty sound and a huge credit to cambridge.
Technicallyinept
A pensioner saying they’d defend themselves against thugs (in their twenties) is threatening violence?
Yes. That's the situation you described. My point is that she was allowed to speak despite there now apparently being threats of violence from both sides (according to you and no reason to doubt it).
However, Angelos wasn't allowed to speak as he [i]couldn't[/i] be protected. I think that's called victim blaming.
SquirrelKing
Maybe as a man it’s not really your place to be defining what is and isn’t misogynistic. Just a thought…
Why? An appeal to authority if ever there were. Only women can define mysogyny? I know so f-ing stupid women.
Technicallyinept
A pensioner saying they’d defend themselves against thugs (in their twenties) is threatening violence?
makecoldplacehistory
Yes. That’s the situation you described. My point is that she was allowed to speak despite there now apparently being threats of violence from both sides (according to you and no reason to doubt it).
That's bollocks. A woman joking about self-defence is not threatening violence.
The threats in this 'debate' are mostly one sided. I'm not going to claim entirely one-sided but it may as well be, there is simply no-comparison either volume or nature.
Linda Bellos' comments vs TRAs online posting selfies with barbed-wire wrapped baseball bats and suggested that TERF lesbians should be ****ed with them and have their insides ripped out are in no-way comparable.
In Liverpool and Manchester stickers bearing the words 'women don't have penises' or 'women, noun: adult human female' were called hate speech. Liverpool council and Greater Manchester Police (GMP) were quick to instigate a witch hunt.
This week, stickers appeared in Manchester bearing the words 'Protect Trans Kids. TRANS KIDS BURN TERFS'
Not a ****ing peep from GMP or Andy Burnham
ps. Angelos turned up at the meeting (as a member of the audience), the audience insisted he speak. Apparently lots of interesting discussion were had.
I thought things would settle down after the UK GRA consultation but they seem to be escalating.
As they behaviour of these TRAs makes it way into the mainstream press (e.g. the mail covering the case of a breast-feeding, menstruating mother arrested and held in police cells for 7 hours, away from her children and without sanitary protection), there is a very real risk of a backlash against the transsexuals quietly going about their lives, plus lesbians and gays.
The comments on the mail article above were disgusting
It's interesting that no-one commented on the other item in the original post, the removal of a poster campaign in New Zealand (funded by a small group of women). All they women were asking for was to be consulted on policy changes they think will affect them.
GeeTee has been banned? Gosh, only ever saw evidence of him being sinned against rather than sinning, one less reason to spend time on this site.
I was baited and I bit and I used pretty sweary language directed at Edukator. Actually I first tried to post an image with the language I wanted to use knowing that the site would automatically censor the words and when that didn't work, I used asterisks.
I knew it would result in a ban and have no issue with that decision. I think it's right and proper that it happened.
On the other hand, the way that some other people, like Edukator and Binners like to misrepresent people whose views they don't agree with, or even go as far as accusing them of being something vile and entirely other than they really are (I mean come on guys, you've never even met me in person; you know nothing about me really), is a fine line that seems to result in more tolerance.
I think that's a good thing; I think that represents free speech even if it is often wrong or misplaced.
I mistakenly assumed it was of a more permanent nature, well that's all good.
I mistakenly assumed it was of a more permanent nature, well that’s all good.
So does that mean you're staying?
