"If you burgle a house in the country where the householder owns a legally held shotgun, that is the chance you take."
Judge Michael Pert, QC
This statement, combined with the absence of prosecution of the householders once the facts had been established; does this usher in a new era of increased power to honest people against pilfering scum?
Or does it give a green light to vigilantésque homeowners tooling themselves up within their fortress homes; trespassers will be shot, survivors shot again.
Has anything changed? It feels like it has, although I understand that legally at least, it hasn't. Or has it?
Who cares? I'm off to buy a shotgun.
Shotgun, Bastard and Dribble.
I'm not so sure about this new Trumpton remake.
Looks as though this story and the "brave" burglars story are chronologically arse about face.
I guess it could be used as case law in future similar incidents. It does kind of set the bar really
licence to shoot folk but it will be popular just like the death penalty would be
personally not impressed as people are putting possessions above a life- even if they are a robbing scrote
how low would you go?
1 chipped cup?
your £20 microwave?
your laptop?
Nothing has changed.
A person has the right to pro-actively defend themselves (i.e. strike first if an attack is suspected). You may use what is to hand as a weapon.
If you find someone in your house, you could be forgiven for thinking that they are there to murder you, rape your wife and/or children...who knows, are you going to risk it? No, so we have established you now have the right to attack the intruder (as many have done using various weapons including knives and swords). If your LEGALLY OWNED firearm/shotgun is to hand , you don't have to unload it, lock it away, and then find another less lethal weapon...you use it because it is what you have.
how low would you go?
1 chipped cup?
It's all about "reasonable force" isn't it. Shooting someone in the head gun for stealing a teacup is just reducto ad absurdum. Well, or American.
Junkyard - Member
licence to shoot folk but it will be popular just like the death penalty would bepersonally not impressed as people are putting possessions above a life- even if they are a robbing scrote
how low would you go?
I wouldn't go through a check-list that's for certain.
shouldn't you lose your gun licence if a loaded gun is ever "to hand" ?
I'm not sure that this verdict is saying you can kill to protect your property. The burglar was reaching into the knife drawer when the guy shot him. There's scope for a 'in fear for his/his wife's life' there, if the perceived threat is sufficent and imminent. I can't see the CPS letting someone away with shooting someone for stealing when there's no risk of harm to anyone.
Maybe house robbers should sign something legal upfront to the effect that they promise not to hurt anyone they may disturb during the robbery?
That way householders can sleep easy in the knowledge that they'll never be scared into defending themselves.
Classic pump action shotgun Vs Benelli M4 ... I will have the latter. 
I suspect someone will take the Tucker approach in future and get it wrong and end up like Tony Martin.
I also expect that the householder will lose his shotgun licence if he is shown to keep it unsecured overnight. They are supposed to be secured and unloaded when not in use from my understanding of firearms law.
If my second point is correct he's up shit-creek without a paddle when the scrotes get out and decide to come a calling again, or his mates in the interim.
I'm not sure that this verdict is saying you can kill to protect your property. The burglar was reaching into the knife drawer when the guy shot him.
Perhaps the burglar was reaching into the knife drawer to get a knife for self defence as someone was just about to shoot him. 🙂
scaredypants - Member
shouldn't you lose your gun licence if a loaded gun is ever "to hand" ?
I thought that, at least. Does anyone know if he has or not?
off to polish my LEGALLY HELD shotgun all night (officer)...
if the perceived threat is sufficent and imminent. I can't see the CPS letting someone away with shooting someone for stealing when there's no risk of harm to anyone.
I'm fairly sure that uninvited men in my house whilst I'm sleeping would pretty much cover those bases. Knife drawer or not, terrifying. I'd like to think in that situation I'd shout a warning and the intruders would run away. But I'd really want the (perceived) reassurance of a loaded twelve bore in my hands just in case they turn out to be cocky twunts...
It's hard to say for certain, but I'm 99% that I would shoot (maybe kneecaps ;-)) some intruder in my house in the dead of night, I don't care what his intentions are - mine are to protect Mrs and Baby Wilko. One things for sure though, by the time I'd dug out the keys to my shotgun cabinet, got out a 12 bore, grabbed a box of cartridges and loaded 2, they'd have nicked all my electrical equipment and sold it on.
What about a pump action 12 bore pair of bombers?
If I apply for a shotgun license, and when they ask what I want the gun for I say 'shooting burglars' how far will I get?
Well Sweepy, my understanding is that as long as you don't say "I intend to shoot burglers in the back as they run away" it's all fine.
This statement, combined with the absence of prosecution of the householders once the facts had been established; does this usher in a new era of increased power to honest people against pilfering scum?
Or will it mean the pilfering scum will come tooled up and possibly shoot first?
If I apply for a shotgun license, and when they ask what I want the gun for I say 'shooting burglars' how far will I get?
I told the visiting police firearms officer that it was for my 'Zombie Apocalypse survival plan'(tm)
He thought I was joking...
shouldn't you lose your gun licence if a loaded gun is ever "to hand" ?
Why? The law says that firearms have to be kept 'secure'
Nowhere more secure than in the bedroom with me, is there?
My mate has always said if anyone broke into his house and entered intending to steal or cause harm to himself or his partner that he'd have absolutely no qualms about removing one of his shotguns or rifles from the cabinet and using it, as long as the person was advancing towards him that is - anything else and he wouldn't get away with it.
He does stay in a big victorian country house with a long access road and in a very isolated position, fully alarmed house with window bars on the lower basement section of the house so if anyone managed to get through all that i guess they are determined to break in and fully deserve what's coming, which would be 3 pointers and 2 daft spaniels creating merry hell. Knowing him i guess he wouldn't shoot to maim either, brought up in Ireland in the 1970's and early 80's before he moved out of the trouble to London in his early 20's to make his fortune so to speak, from what scant info i've been told regarding growing up in Ireland round about that time it was brutal and seemingly random inhuman violence with indiscriminate kneecappings for petty misdemeanours, vicious beatings from so called terrorist organisations along with similar from the police/army and bodies dumped at the side of the road as a warning were commonplace so hell mend anyone who tries to take what's his nowadays. He was taken aside a few times for daring to go out with a Catholic girl and beaten rather badly, and had to watch as the provo's kneecapped his mate for working with a Catholic building firm, the violence was too much so that's why the pair of them left Ireland to go to London and are still together today.
It's hard to imagine that was only 30 odd years ago, despite what they say it still goes on to a similar but not as explicit extent nowadays, kneecappings and beatings along with extortion are still commonplace but we never hear about it.
For what's it's worth a few years ago i/we caught someone in my house trying to get out my bedroom window, we heard a commotion in the bedroom after coming home late from the pub one night and i ran through to see this little scrote trying to climb out through my window... I'm not saying what happened to him but he fully deserved what he got and i'd have absolutely no second thoughts about doing similar today if i found someone in my home or attempting to break in.
I suspect someone will take the Tucker approach in future and get it wrong and end up like Tony Martin.
It's not MY approach. It's law! 🙄
It's how that scumbag Kenneth Noye got away with murdering the unarmed Policeman John Fordham in cold blood.
Nowhere like stw for whiney middle class bleeding heart cockbags. 😆
...and Tony Martin illegally sourced and held a weapon specifically for the purpose of shooting an intruder. A pre-meditated crime. Not in the least bit relevant.
Had Tony Martin of used something he already owned, he wouldn't have had a case to answer.
I lived on the same road as Tony Martin back when it happened. There was very much a strained relationship between different sections of the community afterwards, shall we say.
Mind you, we did have police cars passing the house every other hour all through the day and night for a few months - kinda handy on the crime prevention front, I guess.
Rachel
Nowhere like stw for whiney middle class bleeding heart cockbags.
or the testosterone fuelled knuckle dragging bell ends
falkirk-mark - Member
Nowhere like stw for [s]whiney middle class bleeding heart[/s] [u]low IQ reactionary right wing[/u] cockbags
FTFY, HTH 😀
EDIT I prefer Junkyard's version.
Last time I checked IQ was around 130, I do believe what goes round comes round and do not have much faith in our justice system.HTH
Do you really need IQ to shoot intruders?
I think you are thinking too much ... just pull the trigger and get it over and done with.
🙄
It's how that scumbag Kenneth Noye got away with murdering the unarmed Policeman John Fordham in cold blood.
That's not true - the jury did not find that Noye killed Fordham in cold blood.
Had Tony Martin of used something he already owned, he wouldn't have had a case to answer.
That's not true either. The reasonableness of the force has nothing to do with weather a weapon used is owned legally.
falkirk-mark - Member
Last time I checked IQ was around 130, I do believe what goes round comes round
Shooting burglars may well get you your karma, did you think of that? 😉
don't know that I would want to use a shotgun, a bit messy.
Maybe a decent .22 and aim for the thighs on first encounter...
Don't have a shotgun, but a very, very sharp Grunsfors axe, a Gurkha Kukri, and a Puma White Hunter, waved in a perps face might persuade them that the person holding the handle of a large pointy object has certain advantages.
A bokken (Wooden samurai sword) looks rather like a real Katana in the dark... I have 2 knives and a hatchet in my room 3"(folding), 3.8"(Sheath (Bushcraft)) id be fairly tempted to give any intruder i found a good shank in the leg before tieing him/her/it up in the bath and calling the cops. (I'd bandage the wound as well, I'm not a total ****)
cynic-al - MemberShooting burglars may well get you your karma, did you think of that?
It definately gives you XP. And if you shoot 50 in the head you get an Achievement.
Perhaps the burglar was reaching into the knife drawer to get a knife for self defence as someone was just about to shoot him.
Perhaps the burglar could have avoided the situation entirely by not being a burglar?
It definately gives you XP
I thought support for XP was soon to be abolished, hence W7?
*Facepalm*
Well it certainly seems to give forumites a green light to selectively [mis]quote the Judge in two different threads!Or does it give a green light to vigilantésque homeowners tooling themselves up within their fortress homes; trespassers will be shot, survivors shot again.
The sentence you quoted needs to be read in context. The Judge was not trying the people who fired the weapon, he was trying the burglars (who pleaded guilty) and making clear he was not going to show any leniency because they got hurt in the process.
shotguns are for cowards
we all know that a set of lowers from some bombers is all you need
sadly i only have some fox float lowers under my stairs,, would tehy be up to the job?
