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This is more about the technical if's & but's rather than swinging accusations about. I am just interested tbh.
My wife was witness to a rather horrific incident on Saturday in her car. She was within meters of the incident and was quite lucky to come out of it unscathed which is more than can be said for the party involved. Once she had stopped her car (my daughter was in the car and was on the phone to emergency services etc) she calmed down a bit and called me as some doctors and nurses were straight on the scene trying to help the person.
So she called me when they were waiting for air ambulance etc. I asked her if she had in any way been involved in the incident to which she replied no. I then told her i had put a built in dashcam into her car a few months earlier for this kind of situation. You wouldnt know its there, it doesnt need turned on or off and it just has a loop of a few months at a time for recording. So she will have had absolutely everything recorded on what caused this incident.
My question is about how the police took the evidence. They asked if she had a dashcam and she said yes. They told her they needed to take the SD card for evidence and just went and removed the card. They did say they would return it and took her details. Are they allowed to do this? I dont have an issue with them doing it but what if there was something on that card that incriminated my wife. I wondered if they would have a process to inform us that we were handing over evidence that may self incriminate a bit like being read your rights when being arrested.
Maybe i am reading too much into it
Interesting but thats not self incrimination is it? Just evidence?
Are they allowed to do this?
Yes It’s evidence of a potential crime.
I dont have an issue with them doing it but what if there was something on that card that incriminated my wife.
Then your wife would be in bother. It’s the risk you take.
Dashcams monitor your own driving much more than they monitor everyone elses.
AFAIK, they can seize it yes, and they don't need your permission, as it may have evidence on it. If there's something on it that incriminates your wife, you may get a NIP.
Interesting. Thanks
Well, the alternative is refusing to provide the evidence and/or tampering with it, both of which are likely to cause even more bother.
The problem with dashcams is that they show all the facts, as some of my cycling mates have come to realise.
There is 100% no guilt here other than maybe a few expletives and she was happy to help. I just found it a little confusing that in a situation where you may incriminate yourself, you provide the ammunition through your dashcam.
I just found it a little confusing that in a situation where you may incriminate yourself, you provide the ammunition through your dashcam.
It’s no different to them seizing your phone, your satnav or any telematics in your car. It’s just data that can establish what actually happened.
If you are recording then that is evidence and it doesn't care who it incriminates.
I would say you potentially stitched your wife up by not making sure she was fully aware of the dash cam. Which is a bit shit.
Dash cams do change the owners driving behaviour too as anything you do is also in camera
OP this is not self incrimination. Self incrimination is when you make statements that may incriminate yourself. This is just evidence - it’s no different to the police seizing as evidence a knife with the fingerprints on it or the falsified accounting records kept on a hard-drive.
As I understand it / I am not a lawyer, not in the police, but did work on 24h In Police Custody for several seasons so did spend a lot of time sat around watching them work and watching the on-duty solicitors make sure proper processes were followed (i.e. get their blatantly guilty clients off).
If she had refused they could have got a warrant to search the car and sieze the card.
If you had watched it back and conveniently edited out bit of bad driving that would be tampering with the evidence.
They could watch the whole SD card back and use it as evidence against you for bad driving entirely unrelated to the case, but that would require time and effort so unless there was a reason to I wouldn't worry.
IF they did come back to you about your or your wife's driving then speak to an actual lawyer as it would come down to a who said what, did they get permission to take the footage or did they just ask if it existed and take it, etc.
I then told her i had put a built in dashcam into her car a few months earlier for this kind of situation. You wouldnt know its there, it doesnt need turned on or off and it just has a loop of a few months at a time for recording.
TBH if it was me I'd be more scared of my OH's reaction to me secretly recording her for months 😂
OP this is not self incrimination. Self incrimination is when you make statements that may incriminate yourself. This is just evidence – it’s no different to the police seizing as evidence a knife with the fingerprints on it or the falsified accounting records kept on a hard-drive.
I was about to type similar - a bit like police wanting to take a knife away but you asking that you be allowed to wash it first?
TBH if it was me I’d be more scared of my OH’s reaction to me secretly recording her for months 😂
Def this, you would have been on my shitlist for months if someone had installed a dash cam and not told me.
That being said you would hope people would notice
Dash Cam Footage in Traffic Violations and Accidents
Dash cams have become increasingly popular among drivers, especially those who want to document their driving experiences and protect themselves from potential accidents and traffic violations. However, dash cam footage can also be used by law enforcement agencies as evidence in traffic violations and accident investigations.
Evidence in Traffic Violations
If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, such as running a red light or speeding, the police officer may ask to see your dash cam footage as evidence. While you are not required to provide the footage, it can be used against you in court if you do not comply.
In some cases, dash cam footage can help you dispute a traffic violation. For example, if you were pulled over for speeding, but your dash cam footage shows that you were not speeding, you can use the footage to prove your innocence.
Use in Accident Investigations
Dash cam footage can also be used in accident investigations to determine who was at fault. If you are involved in an accident, the police may ask to see your dash cam footage to help determine the cause of the accident.
In some cases, dash cam footage can be the deciding factor in an accident investigation. For example, if two drivers are involved in a collision and both claim that the other was at fault, dash cam footage can provide a clear picture of what actually happened.
Owner's Rights and Responsibilities
As the owner of a dashcam, you have certain rights and responsibilities regarding the footage recorded by your device. Here are some things you should be aware of:
Disclosure of Footage to Authorities
If the police request access to your dashcam footage, you have the right to refuse. However, if the footage is relevant to an ongoing investigation, the police may obtain a warrant to access it. In such cases, you are legally obligated to provide the footage.
It is important to note that intentionally withholding or tampering with footage that is relevant to an investigation is a criminal offense. Therefore, it is in your best interest to comply with any lawful requests for access to your dashcam footage.
Data Protection and Ownership
As the owner of the dashcam, you are responsible for protecting the data it records. This includes taking measures to prevent unauthorized access to the footage, such as keeping the device secure and ensuring that the data is encrypted.
It is also important to understand that you own the footage recorded by your dashcam. This means that you have the right to use it as you see fit, subject to any applicable laws and regulations. However, you should be aware that sharing the footage publicly or using it for commercial purposes may violate the privacy rights of individuals who appear in the footage.
Law Enforcement Requests and Subpoenas
If you have footage of a crime or accident, it's possible that law enforcement officials may ask for your dash cam footage. In some cases, they may even subpoena it. Here's what you need to know about law enforcement requests and subpoenas for dash cam footage.
Formal Request Procedures
In most cases, law enforcement officials will make a formal request for your dash cam footage. This request may come in the form of a written letter or email, or it may be delivered to you in person. If you receive a request, it's important to respond promptly and provide any information that is requested.
Compliance and Resistance
If you refuse to comply with a request for your dash cam footage, law enforcement officials may seek a subpoena to force you to turn over the footage. If you still refuse to comply, you may face legal consequences.
On the other hand, if you do comply with a request, you may be able to help law enforcement officials solve a crime or accident. It's important to weigh the potential benefits and risks before deciding whether to comply with a request for your dash cam footage.
Implications for Dash Cam Users
Awareness and Best Practices
As a dash cam user, it's important to be aware of the potential implications of your footage being accessed by law enforcement. To protect yourself and your privacy, it's recommended that you follow best practices when it comes to managing your dash cam footage.
Firstly, make sure that your dash cam is properly installed and functioning correctly. Check the recording settings to ensure that the footage is clear and that the camera is recording audio, if desired. Additionally, regularly check the storage capacity of your dash cam and delete any footage that is no longer needed.
It's also important to be aware of your local laws regarding dash cam usage. Some states or countries may have specific regulations regarding the use of dash cams, such as where they can be mounted and whether or not audio recording is permitted.
Finally, consider password protecting your dash cam footage or storing it on a secure device to prevent unauthorized access.
Potential Legal Consequences
While dash cam footage can be useful in providing evidence in legal cases, it's important to understand that it can also potentially be used against you. If you are involved in an accident or incident that is being investigated by law enforcement, your dash cam footage may be requested as evidence.
However, if your dash cam footage captures illegal activity, such as a traffic violation or even a crime, you could potentially face legal consequences. It's important to be aware of this risk and to ensure that your own actions while driving are legal and safe.
Additionally, if you delete or alter dash cam footage that is being requested as evidence, you could face legal consequences for obstruction of justice.
Conclusion
As we journey through the roads of our daily lives, our dash cams silently capture every turn, every stop, and every unexpected event. Understanding whether law enforcement can access and use this footage is more than just a legal inquiry—it's a matter of balancing our right to privacy with the mechanisms of justice.
We've navigated the complexities of this issue, highlighting the importance of staying up-to-date with changing laws and regulations that impact our digital footprints on wheels. Being informed and aware of your rights is the first step towards ensuring that your journey through both the roads and the realms of privacy remains as secure as possible.
Always remember to drive safely, stay informed, and keep a watchful eye on your rights as much as you do on the road ahead.
“No, you can’t take that bloody knife with my fingerprints all over it officer.”
No she hasnt been 'stitched up' and no there isnt any hidden agenda for recording her driving. Its a dashcam we purchased because my young daughter was going to be learning to drive in it but subsequently got her own car. The dashcam was put in one evening in 5 mins and forgotten about. After 30 years together if she wants to do anything, she doesnt need or ask my permission and tbh i am not interested. There is no underlying nastiness going on.
In fact ive just remembered she used her mobile phone light to enable me to connect the cam up in the dark when i installed it. We put it in and forgot about it. No secret filming.
“No, you can’t take that bloody knife with my fingerprints all over it officer.”
The difference there is the reasonable grounds for stop and search, or arrest. The card in the crashed car would be evidence from a potential crime scene. The card from a witness' car isn't. If the "witness" was racing the crashed car then it'd be part of the crime scene and they'd be back to having reasonable grounds?
IANAL
Slightly different angle...
What if your dashcam wasn't synced to the cloud or whatever, so the SD card was your only record.
Now lets say there's an incident where it's vital you retain the footage so you can make a copy before handing it over - say to prove non-fault on your part, for example.
If the police take the SD card straight away, what if they break it, lose it, or cack handedly erase it or something...then you're boned. Surely you can retain it until you have made a copy, or simply supply a copy to the police?
Dash Cam Footage in Traffic Violations and Accidents
The language in that article suggests that it is US focused. If you want the legal position in the UK, probably best to have another look.
All evidence is evidence though isn't it, they could (legally*) request doorbell footage and all sorts. I'm pretty sure 'evidence' is pretty sancrosanct in that respect.
* Both senses AIUI - they are reasonably allowed to ask to see it and/or can get a warrant or whatever the right document is (IANAL) to demand it if not voluntarily given.
I then told her i had put a built in dashcam into her car a few months earlier for this kind of situation. You wouldnt know its there
So how did the police know she had one? I'm confused 😂
a bit like police wanting to take a knife away but you asking that you be allowed to wash it first?
That doesnt seem to be the same scenario with use of "witness" vs "involved".
From what I can tell the former they can ask but not demand it without going to get a warrant etc but in the latter they can seize it.
theotherjonv
Its the fitcamX which are specific to the models of car as they replace trim pieces. As i said, you wouldnt know its there other than a sd slot.
Ok, maybe your initial wording could have been better then.
Maybe you reminded her of the dash cam, otherwise it just implies you fitted it without her knowledge
“They could watch the whole SD card back and use it as evidence against you for bad driving entirely unrelated to the case, but that would require time and effort so unless there was a reason to I wouldn’t worry.”
How long will this time and effort impediment remain? I’m pretty sure somebody somewhere will be working on ML systems for identifying likely offences in dashing footage right now, and initial analysis will be entirely automatic. You could feed in months of video and potentially very quickly get a list of itemised footage of speeding, red light infringements, dodgy overtakes and so on.
mattyfez i had exactly those thoughts. Our ability to use the footage to prove anything disappeared the second the officer removed the card.
So how did the police know she had one? I’m confused 😂
I asked her if she had in any way been involved in the incident to which she replied no. I then told her i had put a built in dashcam into her car a few months earlier for this kind of situation.
They asked if she had a dashcam and she said yes.
You won't make detective at this rate.
More Juliet Bravo than Gene Hunt
"I asked her if she had in any way been involved in the incident to which she replied no"
"what if there was something on that card that incriminated my wife"
So after 30 years together, you still don't believe a word she says! 😀
Having had the police take my bike camera and then proceed to break the SD card and 'loose' the footage (it involved someone running me over) I'd avoid letting that have it until I'd secured the footage myself.
If you just witness something and you have footage that can help I'd send them the relevant bits afterwards, not the whole SD card. If you are directly involved in something then this wouldnt be a good idea as it could be seen as obstruction of justice.
mrchrispy i do believe we wont ever see that SD card again tbh. There was no choice to send them the footage. They took it. The incident happened in front of her and all it proved was that no other party was involved but i like to wonder what if's etc.
I dont understand OP
Why did you secretly fit a webcam to your wife's car? Do you not trust her driving ability, or want to know where she is travelling?
I've never seen a after market dashcam fitted in a car that doesnt have wires sticking out somewhere, also how does it get its power?
By the way I hope she didnt use her mobile phone at any point 🙂
I dont understand OP
Why did you secretly fit a webcam to your wife’s car? Do you not trust her driving ability, or want to know where she is travelling?
erm....
Its a dashcam we purchased because my young daughter was going to be learning to drive in it but subsequently got her own car. The dashcam was put in one evening in 5 mins and forgotten about.
How long will this time and effort impediment remain? I’m pretty sure somebody somewhere will be working on ML systems for identifying likely offences in dashing footage right now, and initial analysis will be entirely automatic. You could feed in months of video and potentially very quickly get a list of itemised footage of speeding, red light infringements, dodgy overtakes and so on.
Lets hope so, I hope all vehicles will be required to have such a camera fitted and working before they can be driven, might encourage saome road users to improve their standards. If you choose not to install a dashcam in case it reveals that when driving you do not always obey the law then perhaps you need to have a good hard think
It's a good thing they took the card. It prevents your partner from viewing it over and over again.
erm….
Its a dashcam we purchased because my young daughter was going to be learning to drive in it but subsequently got her own car. The dashcam was put in one evening in 5 mins and forgotten about.
Still doesnt stack up IMO, Id be telling the wife if I put a camera in her car, or mine.
If it only took 5 mins to install there must be leads going to cigarette lights/usb ports. Maybe the Mrs doesnt open her eyes when she drives?
Police seized mine last year when a HGV decided to change lanes and write my car off. The Police were right behind me at the time too.
It seems people don’t read threads before posting stuff like this! (Meaning Funkydunc’s post). It’s well explained - she helped with the installation and forgot about it! The question was about the police and the evidence not why the camera was there…
I am not going back and copying/pasting every bit for you funkydunk. Everything i say here is written earlier in the thread
The dashcam was purchased for my daughter learning to drive.
I fitted it, with the help of my wife one night months ago. She in fact used her mobile phone light to help me see so 100% witnessed it. I dont have secrets from her and i dont have to check on her. 30 years together and she does exactly what she wants.
My daughter purchased her own car and noone gave the dashcam a second thought until my wife called me having witnessed the accident and i suggested she checks the dashcam i fitted to her car (Poor choice of words)
As i said to theotherjonv - Its a fitcamX which if you have a deek is 100% wired in to original wiring and does in fact take someone with a little knowledge 5 mins to install with zero wires showing etc.
Put your suspicious mind to rest please.
The police will always want the original evidence, if possible, because it's the best evidence.
It'll depend on the incident but proportionality is key; had your wife been sitting in a lane of traffic and the car in the adjacent lane went through a red light with no other consequences then nobody would have bothered her (probably).
This is a guide for more serious collisions, "consider the forensic seizure of clothing and/or property (including mobile telephones) at an early stage" and "Identifying and recovering footage from sources of CCTV (public, private and domestic systems) that may help to identify suspect(s) and witnesses" https://www.college.police.uk/app/roads-policing/investigation-fatal-and-serious-injury-road-collisions
I always keep a spare micro-SD card in the car so that I can get home with continuous video cover.