Forum menu
I did my celebrating last night. After the SNP ignoring the once in a generation referendum it is now dead for a generation.
You keep telling yourself that.
You're going to have a last hurrah at the next SP elections. Then I'm afraid it'll all be downhill from there.
Unless someone can remind Starmer that Scotland exists. You reckon that's going to happen?
I've not looked at Indy polling for a while, found myself on the recent Redfield poll and was abit surprised to see Labour neck and neck with the SNP for Holyrood voting intentions.
However, when voters are asked who they would vote for if a Scottish Parliamentary Election were held tomorrow, Labour has regained a narrow 1% lead over the Scottish National Party in our constituency voting intention poll.
The Scottish Conservatives, meanwhile, fall to their lowest ever vote share (14%) in our Holyrood Constituency Voting Intention poll.
Altogether the results of our Holyrood Constituency Voting Intention poll (with changes from 1-2 June in parentheses) are as follows:
Scottish Labour 34% (+2)
Scottish National Party 33% (–)
Scottish Conservatives 14% (-3)
Scottish Liberal Democrats 8% (-1)
Reform UK Scotland 6% (+2)
Scottish Green Party 3% (+1)
Alba Party 1% (-1)
Other 1% (+1)
I notice Alba lost all their deposits. The alternative SNP party doesn’t seem to picking up many votes on a platform of accelerating the path to Independence.
Sturgeon says nothing to do with her. Maybe her memory failing her again.
Unless someone can remind Starmer that Scotland exists. You reckon that’s going to happen?
What specifically do you mean by this?
As Bruce says, the easiest way for Labour to crack on and take the wind out of the SNP's sails is to resolve some of the societal problems that motivate people to want it. If we end up with a better, fairer, more prosperous society as part of the Union, I can probably live with independence becoming a non-issue in my lifetime. The unionists have the upper hand now - time to put their money where their mouth is...
What specifically do you mean by this?
What ditch_jockey says.
Labour have a ridiculous majority and in a couple of years they are going to be the leaders of a coalition in Holyrood. There will be no more excuses, that if only it wasn't for the Tories/the SNP Scotland would be great. Or at least, not quite so shite.
Personally, I don't think things are going to improve much. The same fundamental issues that hamstrung the SNP will still be present and who exactly will the unionists blame then?
But who knows, maybe Labour will do something radical. Personally, I won't be holding my breath.
https://twitter.com/Forth1News/status/1809086439453262054
First time I've seen this interview. Pretty much sums it up for me I think.
in a couple of years they are going to be the leaders of a coalition in Holyrood. There will be no more excuses, that if only it wasn’t for the Tories/the SNP Scotland would be great.
What does that specifically have to do with needing to "remind Starmer that Scotland exists"?
OK, one example. Scotland needs immigration. England doesn't.
Or rather, Scotland wants immigration, England doesn't.
Starmer has a choice to make. Is he going to run scared of Reform or of the Scottish voters?
I'd like to see him pull off his mask and reveal his true intention of reversing the damages done by Brexit. However, I don't think that's very likely given that he went out of his way to reiterate yet again there would be no reversal in his lifetime and no concessions to a closer alignment with the EU.
Or maybe he'll allow Scotland to set it's own immigration policy. It would be the obvious solution. How likely do you think that is?
Or is your argument simply that Scotland is just like any other region in the UK and should just sit down and be quiet?
The immigration problem is that over half a million immigrants came to the UK last year. Why do only a trickle come to Scotland? Scotland wants immigrants but immigrants don't want Scotland.
I'm not convinced an article by Murdo is going to swing many opinions not already fixed.
Why do only a trickle come to Scotland? Scotland wants immigrants but immigrants don’t want Scotland.
Economics...now tootle off and educate yourself.
So, according to you an Murdo Fraser, Scotland's taxes are too high and that's why migrants don't want to come? That's the closest thing I can find to a suggestion of what needs to be done in the article you posted (by the way, well done for posting an article written by a Tory on today of all days).
I'd say that this kind of proves my point. If the UK as a whole has too many migrants but Scotland doesn't have enough, it doesn't say much about the chances of a Labour government easing restrictions so that more migrants might get lost and find themselves in Glasgow instead of London.
I'd say the main issue is that the Scottish Government doesn't have the tools to allow the required investment. The good news is that Labour (and probably even Murdo Fraser) will soon be able to prove me wrong and finally reveal the solutions to the problems they have been so keen to point out.
Unless you'd like to suggest how to attract more migrants to Scotland yourself? Something beyond, Get The SNP Out?
Economics…now tootle off and educate yourself.
Not exactly an enlightening response, from what i've seen and read, it's a genuine issue, and 'economics' doesn't answer the question being asked.
that's enough od an explainer, plenty of reports online regarding why migrant workers choose to work down south where they can be paid more
Not exactly an enlightening response, from what i’ve seen and read, it’s a genuine issue, and ‘economics’ doesn’t answer the question being asked.
Massive investment (comparatively) in the South leads to a great deal more opportunities. Also, people like to settle where they already have connections so if more people you might already know live there then you're going to prefer living there. It's a Virtuous circle. Likewise, areas that have been ignored end up in a vicious circle.
From the article:
Far too few end up coming to Scotland. Indeed, of the 12 nations and regions of the UK, Scotland currently sits ninth on the table in terms of attracting migrant workers, ahead only of Wales, Northern Ireland and the North-East, and behind every other part of England.
Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and the North East are unlikely to be a priority for Labour, anymore than they were a priority for the Tories.
I would welcome being proved wrong on this.
from other sites
England:
Milder weather. More similar to the most European countries
More job opportunities because of British government investment
Better paid jobs (~25% more than the same job in Scotland )
Cheaper. England is closer to Europe so import is much cheaper than to Scotland (if I want to ship something large from the EU to Scotland they usually ask for an extra £600-800)
Cheaper services(plumbers, joiners, builders, gas engineers, etc..). In England is a huge competition between those jobs and they keep prices low. I have seen that some things were up to 6x more expensive.
Shorter and cheaper flights to the rest of Europe.
lower taxes Scotland
he UK gov and parliament have done nothing but focus on London and the South East since forever so people are more attracted to those areas as they have a higher standard of living that the rest of the UK.
With that England has larger communities of immigrants so naturally that will attract people to come and live in their communities or join friends/ family.
"Milder weather. More similar to the most European countries
More job opportunities because of British government investment
Better paid jobs (~25% more than the same job in Scotland )
Cheaper. England is closer to Europe so import is much cheaper than to Scotland (if I want to ship something large from the EU to Scotland they usually ask for an extra £600-800)
Cheaper services(plumbers, joiners, builders, gas engineers, etc..). In England is a huge competition between those jobs and they keep prices low. I have seen that some things were up to 6x more expensive.
Shorter and cheaper flights to the rest of Europe.
lower taxes Scotland"
Which of those factors would be removed by a Scottish visa?
Which of those factors would be removed by a Scottish visa?
Don't think anyone of them would be removed but you knew that, didn't you?
Problems generally don't get 'removed'. They get mitigated and one of the mitigation factors might be to not be forced to apply the same visa requirements as a country that is actively trying to reduce the number of migrants.
But I think it's unlikely the obsession with the Union will allow Labour to consider anything like this. Keeping the Union stable is the only thing the Westminster parties care about. If it damages the Scottish economy so be it.
But Labour now have the power to prove me wrong so let's see if they choose to do so.
Are you unionists looking forward to the labour/ tory unionist coalition in Holyrood?.
The way the arithmetic and tribalism works its a likely outcome. Murray would rather tories than SNP.
With two years to go, I'd say it's not impossible that a Labour / LibDem coalition government was possible. It wouldn't necessarily have to have a majority either. We also know that the Scottish Greens have no qualms about supporting a Labour government.
That Fraser article sounds like it was dictated from the back seat of a taxi on the way home from the golf club. It doesn't do much in the way of facts.
The UK is basically two separate countries when it comes to immigration: SE England, which has very high levels of immigration and, and the rest. Scotland is right in the middle of the rankings of "the rest" in terms of where immigrants in the UK live. It is heavier on EU immigrants and lighter on Rest of World immigrants.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/where-do-migrants-live-in-the-uk/
I don't agree with the assumption that Scotland needs more immigrants or with the attitude that people are chattels that can be "imported". But even if it did, the Scottish Parliament already has the powers it needs to make Scotland a more attractive place to live and attract more workers from the pool of ~70 million people in the UK and Ireland who could move to Scotland tomorrow, let alone some of the 5.5 million UK citizens that live overseas.
Are you unionists looking forward to the labour/ tory unionist coalition in Holyrood?.
I'd like to see a Holyrood with no party holding an overall majority, which is how it was designed to be in theory. Ideally with Labour holding most seats, but with the SNP, Liberals and Tories holding a good few seats too. Also the Greens if they ditch the odious Patrick Harvie and get back to core green issues rather than the nonsense he's got them obsessed with.
Then we'd have a Holyrood that Starmer is keen to work with, and where Scotland sees the benefits of the country as a whole getting rid of that Tory government. Ideally a Holyrood where centrist policies dominate and where running the Scotland well is a bigger concern that anything else. Fingers crossed.
Kenny. Thats when we will get a tory labour unionist coalition
Next Scottish parliament election will be no later than May 7th 2026. So the preparation for campaigning will begin soon. Real campaigning probably christmas 2025 . My guess is that Swinney does not have the time to turn things around ,even if he has the desire to do so.
What's the bets that Dross stands for Reform in 2026? The very thought of it "gies me the boak "
"Are you unionists looking forward to the labour/ tory unionist coalition in Holyrood?."
Unlikely. I think if Labour were the largest party a LibLab minority coalition is more likely as pre 2007 But a Labour/Tory coalition could hardly govern worse than the SNP/Green one did.
Poor infrastructure with the Greens opposed to upgrading roads.
DRS scheme.
Discouraging North Sea investment.
Weighing up every decision on how it affects independence.
Expenses fiddler getting full backing of FM
Party chairman charged with embezzlement.
Why insist on discussing the Scottish Government's current performance instead of an awful 2026 scenario that I've just invented? ?
The immigration problem is that over half a million immigrants came to the UK last year.
Seems too much chat these days about immigration, but none about emigration.
The latest estimates on migration from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggest that in 2023: 1.2 million people migrated into the UK and 532,000 people emigrated from it, leaving a net migration figure of 685,000
Not saying anything, not disagreeing. Just showing figures.
Which of those factors would be removed by a Scottish visa?
Check the posts, in your excitement to froth you may notice I wasn’t replying to a comment regarding visa’s
Seems too much chat these days about immigration, but none about emigration.
Well, yeah - the "chat" is about immigration because net immigration to the UK is what we are experiencing right now. If there were net emigration to the UK, we would be discussing that - but there isn't. If emigration and immigration were roughly equal, there would be nothing to discuss at all.
And the last seat goes from SNP to LibDems. Confirming the Nats down to single figures. The grimmer end of expectations as Nicola put it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqe6y0jvmrdo
I'd sort of overlooked that Joanna Cherry lost to Scott Arthur in my old seat, he was my first ever internet troll! I went to uni, got given the internet, instantly went and started wasting hours on it. Joined a bunch of mailing lists, one of them being the Iain Banks list culture@busstop.org. Dr Scott was a lecturer at the same uni and also on that list (he always liked to drop in the doctor, he'd literally say "In my experience as a doctor" and the like and not mention that he was a doctor of civil engineering). And he was just relentlessly full of shit, a totally dishonest contrarian who didn't even care if he won, he just enjoyed being a prick. He was pretty good at it- he had all the word games, he could switch from school bully to poor victim in a second, contradict himself then blame you for being too stupid to understand him, all that stuff. I thought it was just one weird person with some sort of disorder, rather than being an actual internet thing, how innocent I was back then...
Anyway, he took that attitude into politics too- he made his name as an SNP BAAAAD Labour unionist, got on the council, was most noteworthy for blaming the SNP for stuff the Labour council had done. Did that mathematically impossible thing of going on the question time audience multiple times and getting his questions asked each time, and one of those he pretended to be an SNP member and went off on a frothing rant about how all unionists were traitors and should leave the country. He only got found out because he was so pleased with himself he had to tell people how he'd made the SNP look bad and got away with it, and tbh he probably didn't understand why he got in trouble for it.
Bloody excellent lecturer though and in recent years he's been a good councillor and seems to have left the whole "total shiteheel" thing behind him once he realised that like in his day job he could actually do positive stuff with his skills and succeed on merit, he's been really strong on transport etc. Good luck to him.
Ha that's a brilliant story Northwind!
He sounds like a bit of a power hungry **** then?
And he was just relentlessly full of shit, a totally dishonest contrarian who didn’t even care if he won, he just enjoyed being a prick.
Are you sure he's not on STW now?
Are you sure he’s not on STW now?
If that was aimed at me, then as a doctor, I resent the implication.
recent years he’s been a good councillor
I’m not sure I’d go that far
as a doctor
Just checking: Doctor of what?
Unless someone can remind Starmer that Scotland exists. You reckon that’s going to happen?
This aged well! lol
On his second full day as prime minister, Keir Starmer is setting off on a tour around the UK intended to reset relations with the devolved governments. He will be in Scotland this evening...
"And that begins today with an immediate reset of my government’s approach to working with the first and deputy first ministers because meaningful co-operation centred on respect will be key to delivering change across our United Kingdom.
"Together we can begin the work to rebuild our country with a resolute focus on serving working people once again."
Hopefully the SNP can overcome its tribal hatred of Labour to co-operate given the mandate for its platform given to it by voters.
It will be i interesting to see if we get more than kind words. Labour and Starmer have shown nothing but contempt for Holyrood. Its gonna take a lot to get trust back
Hopefully the SNP can overcome its tribal hatred of Labour to co-operate given the mandate for its platform given to it by voters.
Careful PCA.........your inherent bias is appearing to show.
The SNP and Sturgeon and Yousaf and Swinney have shown nothing but contempt for Westminster. It's gonna take a lot to get trust back.