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I've never watched or listened to brand but, from the little I know about him, this is no great surprise.
Innocent until proven guilty and as there is no court case - yet - it's likely that further allegations will be made as neither the ST nor C4 will let this drop and will continue investigating.
It's difficult to believe this won't reach the threshold required by the CPS to bring a case
It’s difficult to believe this won’t reach the threshold required by the CPS to bring a case
You'd hope so, but one of the alleged offences happened in the states, and the others may be tough to prove beyond reasonable doubt in court, with the exception of the one where her screams during the assault were allegedly heard by a third party.
I still think more victims will have to come forward for the CPS to make progress, as, in the absence of many independent witnesses, you have to prove a pattern of behaviour with significant similarities between the accounts of quite a few victims.
Edit: daftness.
However, after watching the full interview of Katherine Ryan by Louis Theroux, it’s clear that even she has has used sex to get what she wanted when she was younger and didn’t see anything wrong with it even when pointed out by Louis. This is a bit hypocritical when pointing a finger at men for abusing their position. Neither are good behavior but surely both should be equally condenmed.
Difference being that the men KR had sex with, probably wanted to.
I’ve never watched or listened to brand but, from the little I know about him, this is no great surprise.
Innocent until proven guilty and as there is no court case – yet – it’s likely that further allegations will be made as neither the ST nor C4 will let this drop and will continue investigating.
It’s difficult to believe this won’t reach the threshold required by the CPS to bring a case
But isn’t it that why you’re reaching a conclusion? You know little about him by your own admission and yet you’ve stuck him in the “he’s probably guilty” pile.
It is a bit odd to be defending someone like Russell Brand - an unfunny, borderline nutter now tbh - but I’ve not seen anything that would qualify as a evidence for him doing what he is being accused of.
It is all really weird
The BBC sent cars to a school! Seriously WTF? How can that happen?
Lives through a modern lens you’ll pick fault
fair point. After all it’s only in the past ten years or so that a fully grown adult picking up a 16 year old from school for sex has become unacceptable behavior right..
what a bunch of snowflakes we’ve all become!!
bear - are you an apologist for brand?
To be clear, saying that I'm not surprised by the allegations is not the same as saying he's guilty - that will be decided in court, if any/all of the allegations get that far.
A court case allows the evidence to be tested by both prosecution and defence so, until then, innocent until proven guilty and allegations only.
The BBC sent cars to a school! Seriously WTF? How can that happen?
BBC pimps to the stars
The whole school thing is bizarre.
The strangest part is why would the school let a pupil just walk out and get in a car?
BBC pimps to the stars
Well, in this case they seem to have competition from C4 and his US employers...
bear – are you an apologist for brand?
God no. I'm just saying it all feels a bit off and that people's "I never did like him" seems to be be playing a huge part in all of this.
BBC pimps to the stars
It's difficult to see why that series never got made, would have been a sure fire ratings winner.
Didn't the Sun give them their coveted "Shagger of the Year Award" a few times. Wonder if they'll mention that in their reporting?
The strangest part is why would the school let a pupil just walk out and get in a car?
Not that strange - secondary schools don’t have teachers at the gate to make sure every child is met by a responsible adult. Pupils are trusted to make their own way.
However, after watching the full interview of Katherine Ryan by Louis Theroux, it’s clear that even she has has used sex to get what she wanted when she was younger and didn’t see anything wrong with it even when pointed out by Louis. This is a bit hypocritical when pointing a finger at men for abusing their position. Neither are good behavior but surely both should be equally condenmed.
Well it depends, did Katherine Ryan hold the position of power? The person in the position of power taking advantage is very wrong.
My point being that if we look into the past with everyone, and view their lives through a modern lens you’ll pick fault. And the older they are and the further you look back the bigger disparages.
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone”
So at what point do we forgive & forget someone's past misbehaviour?
If someone murdered someone close to you & it took 5yrs to find them do they go free? Or should it be 10yrs, 20yrs?
The strangest part is why would the school let a pupil just walk out and get in a car?
Whilst its something I would expect a primary school to really restrict and possibly a secondary school for the younger age group for a 16yo I wouldnt expect them to be really paying attention.
I’m just saying it all feels a bit off and that people’s “I never did like him” seems to be be playing a huge part in all of this.
Surely then he would welcome his best shot at an impartial judgement by saying he will see the complainants in court and leaving it at that, right?
I mean, we have to accept that a UK court is pretty much as close as you can get to a dispassionate judgement (unless your favourite hat is a bit tin foily).
So, obviously he's going to choose that option as it will be his vindication as well as placing on record what an incredibly masculine man he is?
Oh, hang on a minute...
He's pushing out non-specific denials, invoking conspiracy theories and courting allegiance with other people who would do similar. Hmmm.
After all it’s only in the past ten years or so that a fully grown adult picking up a 16 year old from school for sex has become unacceptable behavior right..
This was tolerated and often reported, just look at Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith, she was only 13 when they met. I don't see the Stones being "cancelled"
There is countless other examples of other music stars doing similar for ten's of years.
If it's in the interests of big companies and rich/powerful people to overlook people's indiscretions then they will.
So, obviously he’s going to choose that option as it will be his vindication as well as placing on record what an incredibly masculine man he is?
A libel trial does seem to be the obvious option for him.
Especially as he seems to have used legal action in the past to deal with complaints.
I don't know what the timeframe is for society to be ok with the past, for somethings probably never. My grandfather wouldn't buy anything Japanese because he fought in Burma in the second World War. Yet I've owned many Japanese made items including cars. But time does help heal.
Didn’t the Sun give them their coveted “Shagger of the Year Award” a few times. Wonder if they’ll mention that in their reporting?
Yep it's in the Sunday Times article
His womanising ways — he once said he could sleep with 80 women in a month — saw him crowned “Shagger of the Year” by The Sun three times
I re-listened to the recording of Brand and Ross leaving a message on Andrew Sach's answer phone, just to jog the memory. It was a horrible thing and quite telling of what Brand is really like and the people around him enabling his behavior.
I think there is a lot to be said for upping the age of consent to 18. I know thats only a small part of the alleged problem(s) here but its about time we acknowledged that a 16 year old is still a child.
I think there is a lot to be said for upping the age of consent to 18. I know thats only a small part of the alleged problem(s) here but its about time we acknowledged that a 16 year old is still a child.
The law does already acknowledge this.
I agree that 18 should be the age of consent. Also the age for the following:
- Buy and use nicotine products
- Buy and use marijuana products
- Buy and use alcoholic products
- Buy and use products with high levels of caffeine
- Gamble including the lottery
- Vote
- Pay taxes
- Drive a car or moped
- Get a bank loan, mortgage etc
- Be tried as an adult in court
There's bound to be more that I can't think of. I hated being 16/17 year old as I was treated like a adult or child whenever it suited the government and society
but I’ve not seen anything that would qualify as a evidence for him doing what he is being accused of.
Apart from all the witnesses and victims. Who dont usually come forward because they assume they wont be believed.
I caught part of the programme on Saturday night. Watched about half of it. Putting my thoughts on him aside, certainly an uncomfortable watch, but not so surprising.
It's exploded on a Whatsapp group I'm in, and sitting back listening to mostly men have their opinions, I'm feeling a bit let down. Anyway, a few people I know have gone off on one about about Katherine Ryan, I guess there is a lot going on with her somewhere?
On the Peterson guy, I used to listen to him quite a bit, around 5/6 years ago and could get onboard with some of his methods (his 12 ways to live book sort of time), but since he went balls deep on Twitter/X, he's lost the run of himself. Once watched an interview he did with Russell Howard where he broke down during it and talked a lot about his drug addiction.
but I’ve not seen anything that would qualify as a evidence for him doing what he is being accused of.
What would you want to see as evidence?
You clearly don't believe the women who have come forward - so how could someone convince you.
You clearly don’t believe the women who have come forward
Does he have to? Why is there this fervent need to 'believe' them?
I heard a compelling story, but then if it wasn't compelling Dispatches would have failed in my view. Clearly for others the story was less compelling, and we all arrived at these subjective judgements based on our own experiences and biases, but at the end of the day those judgements mean nothing as we have no real way of 'testing' the validity of their allegations.
So getting into a dick-waving contest about it doesn't really further the matter, simply feeds egos.
See also:
it’s not really, a mix of personality traits and motivations, including folks who rely strongly on their own intuition and are convinced of their own intellect and intelligence, feeling a sense of antagonism and superiority toward others, and the perception of imagined threats to their environment or their lifestyles.
After all it’s only in the past ten years or so that a fully grown adult picking up a 16 year old from school for sex has become unacceptable behavior right..
So, if you aren't too fussed about the age difference perhaps just put that to one side and focus on the fact that he forced his penis down her throat until she had to punch him to stop. And then, just in case that wasn't enough, he drooled in her mouth then held it shut until she swallowed. If true it is sick, power hungry sexual abuse, irrespective of age of the victim.
Ummmm …I assumed it was pretty obvious I was being sarcastic… at no time that I can remember was it ever acceptable for a grown man to be picking up a 16 year old from school for sex!
Ummmm …I assumed it was pretty obvious I was being sarcastic… at no time that I can remember was it ever acceptable for a grown man to be picking up a 16 year old from school for sex!
Clearly not for some, a few people here are holding on way too tight.
dick-waving
is probably not a good choice of words on this thread.
Is this the point in the discussion where everyone who hasn't watched the Dispatches report starts wading in with opinions and arguments that we put to bed on page 2?
@bearnecessities - to a point I agree with you, I initially said the same thing about Savile. But it's multiple accusations from multiple unconnected people, all describing much the same MO, often corroborated by others who worked with / knew him at the time. And sometimes corroborated by Brand himself in his stand-up routines when we all just thought he was being "outrageous" and laughed along.
If you haven't already then you need to go watch the programme (and if you have then I do not understand how you can still be saying what you're saying).
Dispatches: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/russell-brand-in-plain-sight-dispatches
The non-paywalled Times report again, if you'd prefer to read than watch: https://t.co/3ZQd9QaL8E
is probably not a good choice of words on this thread.
Go outside and touch the grass mate.
Is the whole sex addition thing an actual thing?
Sort of. Usually a sign of untreated issues, see also alcohol/drug addiction. You’re either looking for something, or trying to bury something.
I know I shouldn’t, but that did make me laugh.
Heard on the news just now, another one's come forward to the Met.
I know I shouldn’t, but that did make me laugh.
I watched the programme (in background) and I didn’t see anything close to evidence tbh.
He might be guilty of being a full blown bad guy, or he might be just have been a bit of a horny sod in the past that did or said anything to get laid - there’s a huge difference between the two and you and I don’t know the answer.
I suspect I’ll have to pull out (pun not intended) of this thread but there’s a load of accusations, suspicions and conclusions based on - as far as I can gather - famous person that liked to shag went about shagging, lots. Questionable tactics involved to shag, but shagged he did.
I hope nobody runs a programme about those of us not in the spotlight and what we’ve done or said to get laid in the past.
You clearly don’t believe the women who have come forward – so how could someone convince you.
We don't have to automatically believe them, just be prepared to believe them, and (as far as the police etc go, let them know they are being taken seriously).
The trouble with rape/sexual assault allegations between people who are known to each other, is that if there are two diametrically opposed versions of events, you need something to help get a criminal case proved beyond reasonable doubt. That's either an established pattern of behaviour from multiple women whose accounts tally in terms of detail, or third party witnesses.
The women involved going public is a two-edged sword. On one hand, it may prompt others to come forward in corroboration, on the other, some of the allegations - forced oral sex, the comment about mascara, the spit thing - are now useless in terms of other women telling the police 'he did that to me too'.
There was a line that resonated with me that another comedian said who was with the same agency as him (I forget her name) and who was warned about him. It was basically to stay away from him because once he’s had sex with you just being around you makes him feel physically sick so he’ll have you sacked or managed out which will totally stall your career almost by mistake . That sounds very much like a deep rooted psychological problem to me that might well be linked to all manner of abusive behaviour if true which it may or may not be obviously
Just watching the BBC news, and the Met are now investigating reports from people who’ve come forward about his behaviour. There were a number of video clips of him, forcing a presenter into kissing him, dropping his trousers down to his knees and sitting on a presenter’s lap, and other stand up routines, which were frankly excruciating to watch.
He’s a truly obnoxious human being, and I can’t imagine how anyone watching could not believe his accusers.
Yes it means to disprove, however it also means to deny, contradict or rebut.
to say or prove that a person, statement, opinion, etc. is wrong or false:
Fair enough, it seems my pedantry is the wrong side of the Atlantic! Hung through my own petard! I take it back.
The BBC sent cars to a school! Seriously WTF?
Hold on - is that correct? I may be confusing two incidents, but I thought the story she told about being in the back of the car was with Brand in the passenger seat and his friend driving.
Also, depending on the show, it's the production company that would have engaged Brand. And on productions it's usually just Addison Lees or other minicabs.