Forum menu
This all seems a bit like the extra focus on the man being taken out in the air- at first people seemed mystified and the interpretation by the officials was a bit all over the place and now things seem to have settled down and everyone knows the expectations of the laws.
Agreed, but the problem is they are doing it at the RWC and the interpretation is all over the place. This is where Rugby is selling itself to the world but the players and coaches and refs are all seeing it differently which is not a good look.
I fully expect a Welshman to get a red card on sunday!
I fully expect a Welshman to get a red card on sunday!
I don’t know about expect, but I shall be fearing it every time they go to the tmo. When they went to the tmo in the game against Georgia, I thought oh that’s harsh: don’t send the Georgia player off, before realising they were looking at Josh Adams - then my heart was in my mouth. Reffed well I thought, but on another day...
Absolutely - a perfectly reasonable tackle can turn into a red card by a player dipping his head.
It’s a contact sport full of high speed collisions. Intentional foul play should be stamped out, but now we are in the lottery of outcomes instead if intentions.
JW had to be brave he was a 10 and his flankers didn't cover his channel well and the opposition ran truck down that channel. So he had no choice (well he could have had the Craig chalmers sore shoulder excuse). On balance I don't warm to Farrell. It's really the case of him feigning injury when he realises he could be off. Really not helped by his fist pump when he got away with it. I get his dedication but he doesn't control himself.
Good rugby is about controlled aggression directed well.
The law hasn't changed for years has it? More that they introduced a new "framework" to aid decision making at the last minute (ironic 🙂 )
In answer to my own question the mitigating factors which may reduce the sanction by one level are:
Mitigating factors
(must be clear and obvious and can only be applied to reduce a sanction by 1 level)
Tackler makes a definite attempt to change height in an effort to avoid ball carrier’s head
BC suddenly drops in height (e.g. From earlier tackle, trips/falls, dives to score)
Tackler is unsighted prior to contact
“Reactionary” tackle, immediate release
Head contact is indirect (starts elsewhere on the body and then slips or moves up resulting in minor contact to the BC’s head or neck)
Ball carrier slightly squatting down doesn't seem to fit any of these so you'd expect a 3 week break like the previous cases
JW’s flankers? International flankers being Richard Hill, Lewis Moody, Neil Back, supported by Lawrence D, Martin Corry and second row of Martin J, Ben Kay and Simon Shaw. Not a bad line up of guys who could tackle.
Maybe at the Falcons he was exposed a bit more, but again when he went to Toulon wasn’t it Lobbe and Dussaittor who were the flankers and Picamoles at 8?
JW was/is a class act in my opinion. But he was a guy who was very brave in contact, probably not the best technically at tackling and possibly didn’t need to be. But he was a winner and put his body on the line every game.
Hope my posts on him don’t sound like I’m knocking him.
DanW, one of the grey areas is for different size players. I’m 5 foot 8, a 6 foot 5 player making a smother tackle on me can look a lot worse than was intended, if I lower my hips/knees, it’s easy for the defenders arm to work up to my neck/head. When two players are moving at speed it isn’t as simple as saying ball carrier dipping should be a 3 week ban. As a tackler you have a target, you’re thinking about where to hit and how to position yourself, then the attacker moves and you can’t readjust in time either physically or mentally and proceed with the tackle.
This is part of the mitigating circumstances that should be looked at.
Yes and he didn't get support in his channel, whether that was because he was perceived to be a good solid tackler or because they didn't fill the channel. Ultimately his shoulder injuries are down to his having to tackle hard and that is down to the lack of other tacklers. And yes through his early falcons and England career, he was better covered in France.
Edit: don't get me wrong this was the start of mobile monsters on the pitch and they were run at smaller players. So it was easy to run 18st 8s down his channel.
That’s some of the best open side flankers in world rugby, some of the most mobile and you think they didn’t support JW? I guess we disagree on this topic.
I’d imagine a lot of No10s would have liked having those guys as a back row.
JW loved a tackle, absolutely nothing wrong with it, it’s his game. He just didn’t have great technique and probably shouldn’t have gotten so invoked, but he knows way more than me, I’m just a casual observer.
But I would watch him wincing every time he went into contact.
My point on JW is that it wasn’t his job to tackle like he did. There will always be No8s bearing down on the stand off, but JW loved the contact. He’d try and smash the opponent, but that’s not his job. And nor in my opinion is it the fault of his back row. It’s just JW being a winner and ultra competitive.
Some of the big hits he made his body position wasn’t great and he would sometimes come off worse than was necessary.
Amazing player and complete warrior.
Yes and he didn’t get support in his channel, whether that was because he was perceived to be a good solid tackler or because they didn’t fill the channel. Ultimately his shoulder injuries are down to his having to tackle hard and that is down to the lack of other tacklers.
Look mate everybody has to tackle. Teams will always send people down the 10 channel to see if they can run over the flyhalf. Wilkinson generally stopped anybody sent his way. He played with loads of world class forwards but that didn't mean he'd never have to tackle.
Hope my posts on him don’t sound like I’m knocking him.
Not a bit of it.
Hooley caught the ball, saw Francis coming and dropped 6″ – if he hadn’t done that the tackle would have been around the chest.
Players don’t catch the ball completely upright - they bend their knees. Especially if they need to protect themselves from some maniac charging towards them. 😁
Francis had enough time and vision to make a proper tackle, especially as he must know the fuss being made about high tackles at the moment. It’s nothing new - that sort of tackle has been penalised and carded for several seasons now. The big surprise is why the refs have been so lenient during RWC, when they were not being lenient a few weeks ago in the domestic comps.
Bottom line is tacklers need to aim lower, if the bloke with the ball dips a bit you should have factored that in. If the are really low then its mitigating but dropping your should into a tackle is perfectly normal.
Off way to describe the new framework by Cheika...
‘The framework is for referees, not the players, and used to decide whether there are red or yellow cards in a game. In my view, the officials in this tournament are using that framework very well.’
Surely the players need to understand it and act accordingly? He’s digging himself a deeper hole and making himself look even more of a tit than usual.
I’ll be rooting for Wales this weekend.
Off way to describe the new framework by Cheika…
The way Australia play at the moment really irritates me. Lots of little cheats all over the field, whether it’s blocking, jersey pulling, coming in at the side, dodgy tackles, whatever. It dawned on me last week that it’s exactly what irritates me about Leinster - but they don’t do it so much these days because the coach who builds in these cheats now coaches Australia. Takes a while for my brain to catch up!
The framework is for referees, not the players, and used to decide whether there are red or yellow cards in a game. In my view, the officials in this tournament are using that framework very well.’
I have some sympathy for his stand. To me it is comparable to the police changing from prosecuting people who are more than 10% over the speed limit, to above 2mph over the limit and saying, it doesn’t matter what the police do we teach to drive within the limit.
The refs have been doing this since last season, nothing new here.
Just watched England v USA recorded. I'm no expert but England look pretty ropey no? Slow balls, mistakes all over the place?
Normal service has resumed.
The Ospreys are getting humped.
I am in no way having a pop at JW he is a class act (a lot of current players could.look to him and his standards) he never shirked the role of tackler and put in big hits time after time, eventually to the detriment of his body. I just don't think, and there a few old articles that think the same, that he should have had to.
Look at how much protection ford gets in his tackling channel. Yes he still has to tackle but lots of players work to cover for him. Farrell puts himself in the tackle channel like JW did, just he does it in a different way.
Anyone else think all this head collision and high tackle talk is completely ruining the world cup? There's been chat about it in almost every game.
Can't we just enjoy a nice game of rugby without having to argue about wether someone deserved to be red carded.
Can’t we just enjoy a nice game of rugby without having to argue
You must be new around these parts.
Just watched England v USA recorded. I’m no expert but England look pretty ropey no? Slow balls, mistakes all over the place?
This is my view. Eddie and some others think they are just warming up.
England haven’t been great so far, but the only two teams who have looked particularly fluid to date are NZ and SA. A lot seem to be struggling with the humidity; there have been a lot of knock ons etc.
We’ll know where we really are when we play Argentina who are Goni unto dispatch Tonga by a far bigger margin than we did.
You must be new around these parts.
A bit rich coming from the pound shop THM.
Anyway; not feeding the troll. Rugby; Japan to target no10 and try and keep the ball in play for 79.5 mins of the 80? Had a bit to say for themselves as well about the Irish scrum, I am sure that will work out well for them.
We’ll know where we really are when we play Argentina who are Goni unto dispatch Tonga by a far bigger margin than we did
Argentina were gifted a load of their points by Tonga handling errors and still couldn't manage a bigger score than we did.
I wasn’t giving Japan much hope really, but they’re no Scotland ; )
Exciting from the start. C’mon Japan!
Argentina were gifted a load of their points by Tonga handling errors and still couldn’t manage a bigger score than we did.
I switched on not longer after they’d scored the bonus point try so I didn’t see how they’d scored, but at that point it didn’t look good for Tonga who in all fairness showed some decent fight in the second half.
No matter how well England play, it’ll never be good enough for some. We’ve been far from good so far, but it’s job done. Two wins, two bonus points and no injuries, just the Francis citing but I doubt he would have played much after the first two matches anyway because he’s shit.
Japan still in it and are managing not to be outmuscled and winning possession back - which I don’t remember Wales being successful at in the warm up. If they could just stay within one score.
Bloody hell Japan.
I didn’t give them much hope after Ireland looked so clinical against Scotland last week.
Backs to the wall Ireland !
Get in!
one high quality kick and then another freebie on penalty advantage, have Ireland actually created anything of note?
This'll be a good last 20
Japan, the team Scotland think they are?
What a game so far, and I can’t see it letting up anytime soon.
Some outstanding Japan performances, their number9 is great.
Jesus. Squeaky bum time in the Irish camp now.
Puts England struggling against them in the autumn into context a wee bit. They’re not a bad team at all.
😁😁😁😁😁😁
Hahaha!
Get in Japan. Another WC upset.
Why on Earth did he kick it out? Rattled I guess.
Well done Japan, they played fantastically. Good news for Scotland I guess.
I wonder how they’ll react in the studio 😂
Wooow! Japan - what a match to watch!
That’s almost as funny as Wales dumping England out in 2015.
They’ll be well up for the Scotland match now!
Surely there’ll get out of the group this time around?
Ireland’s issues reappeared; passive tackling and poor line out. They missed Sexton today; he’d have made sure that ball stayed in play.
#PrayForDD