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Wilkinson - injured all the time and unable to get the back line moving
Stephen Jones - limited player as well - but fairly equal with ROG
Parks? Don't be ridiculous
Sexton - still has it to prove but a very good player
Wilkinson is better than O'Gara to say he's injured all the time is bollocks based on the last couple of seasons, Flood is better, James Hook is better and Steven Jones is better. Sexton will be better but is yet.
Dan parks is just as shit. If you are an international rugby player you should be able to tackle.
clueless idiot too, it should be noted prior to this he missed two tackles in the lead up to SA's equalising try:
Of course Wilkinson was better...he was one of the best No. 10s ever. ROG will never eat at that top table.
Flood is better
Nope.
James Hook
Nope.
Steven Jones is better
I'd agree with TeeJ that they're on a par.
Oh, and he really is shit under pressure isn't he...
Well Hook and Jones first, O Gara just blows to hot and cold, when he is good and he is happy and the opposition isn't great he looks great when under pressure he does have the habit of of coming unglued.
Putting the clip of him getting pummeled by Mcrae is a bit pointless and he was playing on the wing in that match.
How come Steven Jones and Wilkinson have been Lions test starters when O'Gara ahs been available then? I'll will bet you the princely sum of £10 right now that O'Gara will not be the next Lions test 10 either, in fact I'd be suprised if he makes the tour. Steven Jones who has played most on his international career behind a pack getting stuffed is a far better player. What can O'Gara do that James Hook cannot then compare what Hook can do that O'Gara can only dream of? Flood can tackle which means that he would be chosen above O'Gara all day long. His international career has only been as long as it has because of a complete lack of other options.
O'Gara has played in a better international team throughout his career and how many grand slams has he won?
That Botha clip makes it even more upsetting 😥
He did do a good little shimmy against England last weekend 🙂
I dunno you guys, you don't have to sit there typing carefully thought out analysis for reasons you don't like a player!
Peter Stringer for example - you may think he's a great scrum half, but I couldn't bloody stand watching him play!
Sexton is better than O'Gara NOW. Cos that's what I think.
Ah, so Ireland were pedestrian and devoid of ideas on Saturday to lull the other participants into thinking they are crap, only to unleash a green whirlwind? Clever that.As accusing me for of talking bollocks, seems to be your standard defence, almost your own variation on the Edinburgh defence.I am afraid I am not the only one who thinks he is crap, read the posts above, are we all talking Bollocks?
O'Gara now is not even the same player he was three years ago,and quite rightly, was widely slated for his performances during the lions tour.(dunno if you were watching rugby back then) that is why Sexton is being pushed to the fore. Of course that is only my opinion.
wilkinson is not a better player - he is a different player with different strengths and weaknesses but he is unable to get a back line moving. Too slow on his feet and between the ears.
Wilkinson always has been a limited player. Many many Standoffs that are better
TBH a_a, we're not going to agree on this one. It is about the RWC...not about ROG. The "he can't tackle" line is well worn now. We all know he can't tackle. I'd have him in my team over Jones or Hook any day. You wouldn't? Fair enough, I can live with that.
You can keep posting videos all day of him missing tackles. But that day in the Millennium, he did the job for us.
Despite being so shit, he has scored over 1000 6N points. He's won one grand slam (I think in Irish rugby terms, this is pretty good 😳 ) and two Heineken Cups. True, the Lions tour was particularly shit for him.
To dismiss him as "pish" is simply nonsense. I do hope that Sexton steps up and takes the jersey for good, because he has the [i]potential[/i] to be a better all round No. 10.
I am afraid I am not the only one who thinks he is crap, read the posts above, are we all talking Bollocks?
No, but let's be fair, Ireland have been getting a hard time on this thread over the last few weeks - and they have been shite. I did crack a joke about them just lowering expectations...and then surmised that actually, maybe they really are shit.
As for you talking bollocks...what was your little comment about a "small irritating Irishman" about? Eh?
dunno if you were watching rugby back then
🙄 I know you're still smarting over your last piece of bollocks whinging about the breakdown, but really...
To dismiss him as "pish" is simply nonsense
obviously that is true, he is a fine international player, but he isnt a Lions test standard player or a world class player. He has a glaring weakness that is ruthlessly exploited at the top level especially when playing behind a pack not in control of the game.
but he isnt a Lions test standard player or a world class player
To be fair, I haven't mentioned "world class" anywhere. He's had a fine career for a good Ireland team who have won a grand slam despite his shit tackling. My only argument is with those dismissing him as "pish". As for the Lions thing...well, he was a marked man, and true, he was shit when he played for them. I'm not sure they'd have won those games anyway, but that's all conjecture.
Wellies is slightly better, not by much.
Hook is an appalling fly-half, stupid comparison.
Wilko was brilliant, totally lost it, good to see him back.
Flood hasn't focussed on 10 and along with Youngs is a panicker who needs to learn to run a game.
O'Gara isn't my favourite player, the Lions was a nadir for him and he has actually worked on his defence since, although he will always struggle. My problem with him is that he has no break/pace and therefore struggles to commit defenders. Add in an elderly D'Arcy at 12 and you have a very pedestrian, predictable 10/12 axis.
You're all talking pish
D?nu? Dumbrav? is clearly going to be the top RWC number 10 this year and the revelation of the tournament.
You mark my words.
The words "Breakdown" and "Ireland" seem to spend a lot of time in the same sentence,why do [b]you[/b] need to constantly refer back to them? I will put a smiley on this 🙂 ,as it is intended as banter*. I also missed you downplaying Irelands chances,welcome back to the "6n makeweights"
Best 10's in UK
Jones
Hook
Wilkinson
Flood
Sexton
Parks
O'Gara
*Unlike anything I say about Bakkes Botha during the course of this thread when the WC starts.
O'Gara is better than Parks, Ceri Sweeney is better than parks.
Hook didnt look too appalling against England the other week, controlled the game very well I thought which is his big weakness. Kicks as well as O'Gara, tackles better, is better in all aspects of attacking play but does lack control at times although how much this is down to lacking a forward platform to exert control is open for debate.
😆 I was wondering when Sweeney would crop up, Nicky Robinson is way better than Parks.
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s. The rest of them all have a major weakness in terms of pace/breaking ability, tackling, or running a game. Hook has a weakness in that he doesn't play a lot of 10 because he doesn't boss the game. Sexton is a more complete player than the rest of them.
Sexton is a more complete player than the rest of them.
Jesus, I hope so. I don't think he's lived up to potential...yet.
Sexton looks good but has had the odd meltdown, he's not all that as yet.
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s
way ahead? Really? I'd take Hook and Jones over him currently.
Shandy - Member
Sexton is way out ahead of the rest of the Home Nations 10s.
No he isn't. Ireland consistently lose when Sexton is on the pitch. And that was my point really - as good as he is at 'club' level, he hasn't cut it at international level.
As far as ROG losing the Lions tour, that was my original opinion when I watched that game, but later on I noticed that he was playing with a pretty nasty bruise all down his face after being clattered. Pretty obviously he was concussed - which he didn't blame. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Lions would only have been able to draw the tour if they hadn't lost that 2nd test?
And Hook - he's not a great no10 is he? Doesn't control the game at any level, whether he's behind a dominant scrum or not. And he is very often when he plays for the Ospreys. He makes a couple of breaks a game and that makes him the wonderboy of the Welsh public. I'd compare him to Giteau, but not quite as good.
Steve Jones is crap, has been for a long time. For a while he was the only steady Welsh option, which was why he was selected. Every so often he seems to get it together though.
Wilkinson is a good player but nowhere near as good as the English press like to make out. The Sky commentators were gushing about a 20m kick he made a few weeks ago. From his 10m to the oppo 10m - all he did was kick away possession, but it was 'brilliant play'.
Parks? You must be joking. He's not even good enough to play for Cardiff.
Sexton is good and has a lot of potential but has to prove it yet
Duncan Weir -now he might just be the real deal. Only 20 IIRC but so much promise. Got a real calm head and a good all round game.
How much has Hook played 10 for the Ospreys?
Steven Jones has what about 100 caps including Lions tests and is crap is he? righto?
What did Hook do wrong against England?
As far as ROG losing the Lions tour, that was my original opinion when I watched that game, but later on I noticed that he was playing with a pretty nasty bruise all down his face after being clattered. Pretty obviously he was concussed - which he didn't blame. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Lions would only have been able to draw the tour if they hadn't lost that 2nd test?
he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.
at 6.30ish shows his second miss
Two Heineken Cup winners medals is decent proof, but you're right he could do with International success.
Ireland are not losing because of Sexton. Kidney is out of his depth coaching anything more complicated than 10 man rugby, and we don't have the front five for that any more. Gaffney has produced nothing out of a backline that score tries for fun with Leinster. There are serious problems across the whole squad that Kidney will struggle to fix before the World Cup.
The TV coverage makes a lot of O'Gara coming on to "steady the ship" or Sexton being "dropped" for O'Gara. Kidney is trying to balance gametime between a talented all-rounder and a limited player who has delivered him a lot of silverware in the past. Kidney's problem is 10-man rugby is never going to work for us and he has spent the last year or two flip-flopping between two different styles of play and selection policies. A considerable amount of Sexton's game time in green is outside O'Leary, who Kidney loves very deeply. He has finally been forced to admit that O'Leary isn't even fit for the 30 man squad, which says a lot for the service Sexton has been getting outside him.
[i]he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.[/i]
Brilliant 😆
Annnnnyway, we're doing a picks competition here at work, organised by my fine kiwi friend.
Could we/should we get something going on STW?
Like this:
+5 points for correctly selecting winning team
+10 points for correctly selecting winning margin
+25 points for correctly selecting a draw
+10 points for playing the Joker against correctly selected winning/drawn team.
(NZ) Joker| 15+ | 7-14 | 1-6 |Draw| 1-6 | 7-14 | 15+ (TONGA)
Shandy, it's interesting that you call it 10 man rugby because that's not how I think of Ireland or Munster. But of course that is how O'Gara plays - position, position, position, until they can unleash the backs.
Wales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half - which is something that Hook seems to enjoy. I suppose it helps when your second rows can compete for oppo ball. We've got a 6ft9" player who barely gets his own ball..
Wales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half
Since the arrival of Gatland Wales have had an extremely conservative approach, I dont really understand the stuff you come out with. Although as you say kicking for touch isnt a very good option when your lineout is shit, but I'm not sure Girafferis is the problem (or the answer for that matter Davies and Jones are a very good pairing).
We used to play position and then move the ball if it was on, now we are trying everything from the first whistle and the error count has gone through the roof. Kidney just took a team that O'Sullivan built, which had done very well, and made them believe they could win a Slam. They got a few bounces of the ball along the way but most importantly they were incredibly hard to beat because they gave the opposition very little to work with. Kidney's lack of technical ability has slowly dragged them down.
so the irsih problem is deeper than my own view that they have just got old?
[i]he got that missing one of two tackles in the lead up to the SA equalising try the useless prick.[/i]
In each of the SA tries there are 3 or 4 Lions players who miss tackles. Why would you deliberately pick on ROG and not, for instance, the players who let the first two tries in?
Anwyay, the reason he 'lost' the series for the Lions was the ridiculous late tackle at the end.
[i] Kidney's lack of technical ability has slowly dragged them down.
[/i]
I get the same feeling with Gatland. Hopfully he will have bought some new coaching manuals from Waterstones ready for RWC.
Can you explain to me what Gatlands lacking of technical ability is? Seems to me he has produced a team with a simple gameplan designed to enable us to beat Samoa and Fiji and progress to the quarter final. The gameplan seems to have meant they we are always within a shout of being able to beat most teams and enable our flair players to role the dice in the last 20 as and when needed. Wales seem to me to be pretty well set going into the World Cup. What more could Gatland do with the players available?
no one missed a tackle for Peitersons try, nor Habana's its just good play by SA. O'Gara is in the right place, is set and doesnt even slow him down.
a_a, why so defensive about everything?
My post about Gats was mainly tongue in cheek, but I think Wales will be very lucky to progress far in RWC with him as coach. His win ratio is not very impressive, his teams very often look poorly prepared. Beating a poor English side doesn't make us world beaters.
What you describe as good play in the SA vid, I could describe as poor defence. Plenty of players were in position to tackle. They didn't. Call it a missed tackle or not, it's the same result, two SA tries. Saying that ROG is responsible for the Lions losing the series is, quite honestly, immature.
And as for this:
anagallis_arvensis - MemberWales could learn something from that approach, instead of dicking about with backline moves inside their half
Since the arrival of Gatland Wales have had an extremely conservative approach, I dont really understand the stuff you come out with.
You mean you haven't noticed the amount of ball that Wales gave away in the last few games in stupid positions on the pitch? Little bits of back play inside their own half, chip kicks over the top, running the ball from areas that they really aren't going to profit from? Almost always handing ball back to the opposition.
Perhaps you should try watching an actual game, not a Youtube compilation? 😉
(And really - that smiley means I'm messing!)
the reason I'm so defensive is you are just making things up to suit your agenda. Name the Lions players you missed the tackles in the lead up to the Habana and Pieterson tries then name the players missing the tackles in the run up to the last try by the bloke who's name I cant spell.
The biggest barrier to Wales chances in the world cup is lack of good enough players, rather than the coaches.
the reason I'm so defensive is you are just making things up to suit your agenda.
No he's not.
Name the Lions players you missed the tackles in the lead up to the Habana and Pieterson tries then name the players missing the tackles in the run up to the last try by the bloke who's name I cant spell.
Jeez...
so?
Actually, I'll leave this between you and IJ 😛
so the irsih problem is deeper than my own view that they have just got old?
The thing is, the first choice side isn't actually that old, even if some of them have been around a long time. The centres aren't getting any younger, O'Driscoll can compensate but D'Arcy has slowed down a lot. Add in O'Gara at 10 and its hard to create much in the backs.
I'm watching Glasgow Ulster on BBC alba
I'm watching Glasgow Ulster on BBC alba
poor sod 😉
second half was a waste of 40mins
Meh. Scrappy match but Tuohy and Cave look to be coming back well.
Watching Ian Evans tonight, it seems like a long time since he was the senior partner to AW Jones, about the same age but has had some really shocking injuries. Would be great if he could up his game and displace Girafferis as the back up 4 for Wales.