Isn't that - cheating?

Not really - it's merely displaying a fine appreciation of the rules.

Anyway, as Brian Moore would say - "It's only cheating if you get caught."

George Ford back to Leicester - they must have a plan for next year or surely he wouldn't sign up to a team playing - and supposedly coached that poorly? (fingers crossed as a tigers fan!)

George Ford back to Leicester - they must have a plan for next year or surely he wouldn't sign up to a team playing - and supposedly coached that poorly? (fingers crossed as a tigers fan!)

I think it's a nuts move by Tigers - he's signed for a shed load of cash and will be on England duty at the same time as Youngs, so that's goodbye to your first choice 9 and 10 for big chunks of the season. He won't shine behind the current pack too. With Williams off too, they need to find a suitable back up. The other thing I'd be worried about is goal kicking - if Farrell is on the pitch he's nowhere near the tee and at least Barf have a back up in Homer when he does have an off day.

Given the money spent on Manu, Ford, Tooma etc, that can't leave too much left for some forwards. They need to sort the balance in the back row out.

I agree totally. The only odd bit is that allegedly he isn't on a lot more that Owen Williams is getting paid at Gloucester next year... Certainly it's a lot less than the £650k Sale were supposed to be offering.
I suspect that Toomua is the 'back up' and to be fair he's played 10 for Aus so it's not like he's going to be worse than Owen Williams...!
Shame Burns is off, but I think he wanted to go to Bath anyway - certainly I would if I lived in Leicester..... (oh wait, that's exactly what i did!)

Laidlaw out for the rest of the 6N; that's a blow for Scotland. He's a hell of a goal kicker which in tight game is very important. I wonder if they'll miss his leadership.

I think they will miss his leadership a lot.

Yes a loss for Scotland and the 6N - a fine player and the perfect midweek scrum half for the Lions.

Jack Roberts from Leicester to Cardiff.
Shame for Laidlaw. Not sure he's Lions material though. Having said that I expect Gatland will pick who he thinks are the best player regardless of six nations fitness for example Billy V will go if he gets a few games for Saracens under his belt.

AA;don't rise to it, THM is trolling about Laidlaw. See also AWJ as midweek captain earlier post by him.

You are becoming quite cynical in your old age ducks! Unlike AA I think he is good enough for the Lions but not the main test team. Others have stated that he is captain potential - you see we all can and do have different views. Some you may not agree with or like. Ditto A-WJ.

His replacement did seem overly petulant though!!

Which one of these three would you drop to take Laidlaw?

Murray
Youngs
Webb
.
Care
.
.
.
.
.
Laidlaw. He's a good player but a lot of good players will miss out.

There is a fair train of thought up here that the faster game we are looking to play isn't helped by Laidlaw. That's not to run him down; he is a fantastic place kicker and manages the game well. But...There is little attacking threat in his play, unlike the other candidates you rarely worry he is going to dart, he doesn't keep back row players honest enough. I realise that the Autumn tests were about ensuring WC seedings, but I would have liked any of the three back up 9's we have given more game time. It will be interesting to see who Townsend picks. I think it is between the exciteable Munsterman and the repaired Welshman for the test spot.

Jack Roberts from Leicester to Cardiff.

Yep, a good player, obviously wanting to be in the reckoning for international selection. Can't blame him at all.

If fit, I suspect Laidlaw will tour, I honestly think Youngs will miss out for him.
I'm just really, really hoping the mighty Tuilagi doesn't get a game under his belt prior to the plane leaving or he'll go and be crocked for another 12 months!

Laidlaw would make a good midweek lions captain but there are better candidates as SH for the test side

Ignore TJ he's just trolling - eh, ducks? 😉

Murray is the one 9 who I think in under performing so far - perhaps the going over he received from Glasgow and big old Strauss has upset his confidence. But he is far from his top game at the moment

Jack Roberts would add some much needed pace to the welsh mid field if he can make the step up.

Care has looked the best SH in the 6n's for me. Real shame for Scotland/Laidlaw himself.....also agree that he'd be a good midweek lions captain. Don't think that he'll make the plane though.

I agree to a point that Gatland will ignore 6n's fitness-especially in the case of Billy V. However, take someone like Robshaw-on Autumn form he'd have been a front runner for the 6 shirt. Now, he'll have what, half a dozen games for Quinns (none of which will be high profile European or league semi/final) so I think that he'll miss out given the strong competition in that area.

Care has looked the best SH in the 6n's for me. Real shame for Scotland/Laidlaw himself.....also agree that he'd be a good midweek lions captain. Don't think that he'll make the plane though.

Care has looked pretty good so far and is in better form than Youngs who is suffering a bit with the iffy form of Tigers as a whole - he's certainly not been anywhere near his form in the autumn although he is currently playing behind a pack struggling to win parity.

Agree that Laidlaw doesn't off much threat ball in hand - good leader though and good at controlling a game.

Robshaw will have his work cut out with
O'Mahoney
Stander
Hask
Wood
Moriarty
Warburton
Tipuric
O'Brian
Watson
Barclay
all competing for Flanker spots

Horses for courses as well, Laidlaw has been a good captain for us, his organisation and reading of the game is fantastic. But all the 9's will need to tie down NZ back rows and scrum halves, Laidlaw has never done that. I think the current best at doing that is Care as Murray has been off form the first two games, but in his defence, he has beaten the All Blacks this season. I can't see Robshaw making the plane with the competition from the three Irishmen and Welshmen and ever the odd Scottish back rower/the Wererabbit. If he does, he might make a good midweek captain.
EDIT...We are talking about the Lions AA; you seemed to have mentioned Tom Wood?

#SHCough........ Gareth Davies........ #SHCough.

...he might make a good midweek captain

It's getting to be the most competitive position of all, eh Ducks! 😉

AA; you seemed to have mentioned Tom Wood?

He is a decent 6. Not his fault he's being asked to play 7.

Faletau
Stander
Warburton

Would be my current choice. I expect most will want Billy V but I think with Stander having a top notch carrying game Faletaus all round game would be better.

Vunipola
MaHoney
Tipuric
would be pretty good too.

Oh and Gareth "the shoe" Davies is a bit pants. His fault we lost last weekend. Any 9 with half a brain would have box kicked to touch.

Possible to put together some very good back row's

Billy
Hovis
Stander

Toby
SOB
Hovis

SOB
Tips
Stander

Will be interesting to see who Gatland does pick as it's a mystery to me why Dan Robson isn't in the England squad as he's a much better SH than Youngs and probably Care on current form.

No one like Hamish Watson at 7? I'll be very interested to see how he goes against the Welsh and English. I really rate him as an old school 7. He was the best back row on the pitch against Ireland

Billy
Hovis
Stander

Toby
SOB
Hovis

SOB
Tips
Stander

Not sure Billy and Stander will work balance is out of whack the other two lack a lineout option. Billy does the carrying better than anyone but doesnt contribute much else at the very top level.

SOB and Stander can play both sides, can't they? Stander, Billy V, Warburton with SOB coming on after 50mins having been told he is in danger of losing his spot in the test squad and a Kiwi has been sexting his wife.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38989742 ]Three old men comment on the Lions captaincy. [/url]

What do they know, eh?

😉

It is a bit of a conundrum as he perhaps is the best candidate for captaincy but is he really one of the two best locks in the home nations? Personally I think he is a lot lower in the pecking order than that.

Yeah I'd agree with that tj....Grey, Itoje and Launchbury all ahead IMO.....but AWJ really does bring a lot of experience and is playing very well too!

Like that backrow suggestion duckman.

Stander, Billy V, Warburton

Gatts conclusion on last week

"It was a pretty critical line-out that was turned over and then, resulting from that, a scrum penalty that changed the whole momentum of the last 15 minutes," he said.

Does your captain rise out of the middle of that? What did Wales do the (weakened) English set piece?

England line out 9:0
England scrum 7:0

Stats only tell part of the story but your captain has to be a clear first name on the team sheet. As much as I am a fan of A-WJ, he is not that name.

The beauty of this year's 6N and the Lions tour is that the competition is so high for nearly every place. The only one that probably is settled is the first choice kicker.

Who's the first choice kicker? Farrell? 1/2p doesn't seem to be fancied by many to be the starting 15......

Farrell is much more than just a boot these days, I suspect he is the one of the very few certain pics....Can't resist...along with Hogg (sorry pigface or wrecker)

I would much prefer 1/2p to the over-hyped one at #15, on character alone, but seems that the latter is playing better at the moment, even if the superlatives for "doing your job from 10 yards out" are overdone

I hope Gatts has the balls to go for a radical captain: none of the so-called fav's - Hartley, Best, A-WJ and Laidlaw - would be in my starting XV.

1/2p if he starts would have to be on the wing. He just kills all attacking play these days. Hogg is the best 15 with clear daylight next.

Does your captain rise out of the middle of that? What did Wales do the (weakened) English set piece?

England line out 9:0
England scrum 7:0

You dont half talk some drevil! AWJ was partnered at lock by Jake Ball who wouldnt get a look in to the squads of any other British Isles team and none of the two front rows Wales used in that game would get in the England squad. Now I dont think AWJ should be Lions captain but he was immense last weekend and it takes a special kind of stupid to blame him for Baldwin ****ing up a throw and a scrum going down. Was it also his fault Davies failed to take responsibility for clearing the ball or Jiffy Junior for shanking his kick?

Halfpenny is not the player he was - a quarterpenny?

If Warburton continues to remain fit and his form keeps improving he'll be captain anyway.

Immense in the context you describe perhaps, but that is very different. But dont forget Capn come to their fore when the pressure is on - making the right decisions at the right time (TCUP). Remember the flak dished out to Robshaw after the WC and then rewind a few days. Correct decisions at the correct time - who made them, who didnt?

The defence rests its case, your honour

The defence rests its case, your honour

As usual you have said nothing worth responding to and then congratulated yourself for being so clever 🙂

No, not worth responding to... 😀

Odd that A-WJ responded directly to them though. Then again he is a world class player who doesnt need to hide behind scarlet tinted spectacles.

He is also brutally honest - which is why he is so admired.

What did Wales do the (weakened) English set piece?

Can you explain how losing Kruis and Robshaw for Lawes and Itoje weakened the English lineout or how Marler replacing Vunipola weakened the scrum?

I would leave that to Eddie as he knows better.

So without injuries and with a fully fit squad, would EJ have picked the 8 who started against Wales

Answer no - it was a weakened set of forwards
Answer yes - it was not...

Simple stuff. You decide.

Answer no - it was a weakened set of forwards

It was, but I'll ask again how was the set piece weakened?

Itoje for Robshaw in the lineout? Easy plus.
Lawes for Kruis in lineout a plus.
Marler is also a better scrumager than Vunipola.

Kruis is better in the loose than Lawes and Robshaw a better 6 than Itoje but the set piece didnt seemed weakened to me. Vunipola is a great carrying loosehead and strong over the ball but Marler is stronger in the scrum.

along with Hogg (sorry pigface or wrecker)

If Warburton continues to remain fit and his form keeps improving he'll be captain anyway.

Sounds like you should take Edidie's job....you seem better informed. The pay's probably better too.

Still "weakened" or not, the set piece was untroubled against Wales - and so getting back to Lions choices.......given that, does AWJ. Become a first name on the sheet?

Again quite simple...and we haven't started on TCUP.

So you do understand that "set piece" and "forwards" are not the same thing! Great a step forward for you!

Still "weakened" or not, the set piece was untroubled against Wales - and so getting back to Lions choices.......given that, does AWJ. Become a first name on the sheet?

Like I said a special kind of stupid!! Playing in a weaker team doesnt mean you cant be a Lion, ask Robert Jones.

I am Indebted to you for leading me out of my ignroance. now you just have Eddie to go.

True and a midweek Lion too, probably captain of that team. He deserves it.

don't understand how Best or Sexton could be selected for the Lions not playing/much 6N, but not Robshaw

Best is a choker and should be nowhere near the lions. Hooker is a weak position though.
Sexton is pure class so would be waited on.
Robshaw is good but not sure he is that much better than Stander, O'Mahony or Warburton.

does AWJ. Become a first name on the sheet?

Yes. He is head and shoulders above anyone in the NH as a leader and captain of a touring party that is the Lions.

Parisse would be nailed on at 8 if only he was British. 😉

Robshaw is good but not sure he is that much better than Stander, O'Mahony or Warburton.

Parisse would be nailed on at 8 if only he was British.

Leading a euro team? Oh yeah! French, Italian and a smattering of Georgian lumps!

We should probably include SoB in there though

Yep and Tipuric if we are looking at 7's

Stander
O'Mahony
Warburton
SOB
Tipuric
Robshaw

Only 4 can go.

AWJ is not even a starter in my opinion.

I agree just dont like THM's dull thinking behind it.

Best is a choker and should be nowhere near the lions.

Aye the same choker that led Ireland to wins over SA, NZ and Aus this year.

POM may not even feature in the 6 N do can't see him touring. Stander and SOB have been in great form

"Dull" - phew, I thought the condition was much worse.

Yep and Tipuric if we are looking at 7's

Thats it - you are dead sunshine!

Hamish Watson is our latest 7. Not in the usual mould for the NH but plays like an old school 7. Bloody fast.

Not really. Its a tough ask getting the backrow balance right. Need a good lineout option, a hard yards carrier, a tackler and a fetcher.
If Billy V does the carrying does SOB provide the other options? Ireland have an 8 in Heaslip who is a good lineout option and does the a bit of the tackling and fetching. Bit like Faletau. I dont think Tipuric has what the Lions need at 7. I would see who is going best at 8 and see what their strengths are and then look at the rest.

Thats it - you are dead sunshine!

Only if you let us win 😉

We might not have to!

Robshaw, Hovis, Billy.

Tackling a plenty, carrying a plenty and turnovering a plenty. Job done 🙂

So, as I see it....Lions XV:

1: Dunno
2: George
3: Furlong
4: Itoje
5: Launchbury
6: Stander
7: Hovis
8: Billy V
9: Murray
10: Sexton
11: North
12: Farrell
13: That irish 13
14: Earls
15: Hogg

Bench

Mako
Hartley
Lee
Grey
SOB
Care
Russell
1/2p

No point in Russell on the bench - better off with Biggar. Why Farrell at 12? Why not a specialist?

1: M.Vunipola
2: George
3: Furlong
4: Itoje
5: J Grey
6: Robshaw (of he puts in some blinders for quins if not, stander)
7: Tipuric
8: Billy V or not toby (flip a coin)
9: Murray
10: Farrell
11: L Williams or Nowell
12: Henshaw
13: JD2
14: Earls
15: Hogg

Marler
Hartley or best
Fagerson or Cole
AWJ
SOB or the hask
Care or Webb
Biggar
Daly

For a bit of fun; any wildcards? Roko?

Farrell because he's in great form.....and Sexton will not be kicking goals!

My wildcard.....and a proper left field one, would be Farrell as captain. Won't happen, but I'm just putting it out there!

Ben Te'o or Henry Slade as outsiders to tour? Can't really comment on other nations outsiders as I don't see as much Pro12 stuff of late.

Wildcard - Hamish Watson a couple more good performances in the 6N?
Dunbar? Both somewhat unlikely

I think Farrell as captain is quite a sensible suggestion personally. He's matured well, knows how to win and lead and is seemingly impervious to pressure and if one thing is a definite; when touring NZ, there will be a LOT of pressure.
Might not happen though. Too Northern! OH GOD I JUST PISSED OFF ANOTHER LOT!!!! I WAS REALLY REALLY JOKING!!!!
I'd be surprised if Teo didn't tour as a midweek. Gatland loves his boshers.

Its the obvious call wrecker and was a good bet a few weeks ago. Less so now at sixes.

Why less so? Because Gatts will bottle it as the NZ press would be unable to understand him...far too Northern.

Farrell's probably the standout choice for Captain at the moment and more nailed on starter than most other candidates.
Only problem is the amount of pressure of he's doing that, and 10, and kicker all on one man. That's a spear tackle coming off ever there was.

Personally, I'm convinced sexton's not going. He'll be on "managed recovery" for the summer and won't tour at all, lions or Ireland. There's already been a fair bit of talk from Leo Cullen hinting that. Joe's mentioned it too and I think garland already knows from the way he's been talking about him. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's not the only one "opting out' of lions duty this time round (after half the first choice coaches

SOB , Healy, Kearney and maybe even Henshaw as other wildcards to give Warren the bird this summer .

Henshaw seems to have played well so far in the 6N, so not a crazy call at all.

SOB , Healy, Kearney

Are wildcards but Earls is a test starter? The World has gone ****ing mad!!!

Anyway

Hogg
North
Joseph
Faz
Nowel
Russel
Murry
Faletau
Warburton
Stander
Itoje
J Grey/ Kruis
1/8 of a mile
God knows
M Vunipola

McGrath
No idea 2
Cole
AWJ
Moriarty (my wild card pick) or more seriously Billy V
Webb
Ford
Loopy Liam

That's a spear tackle coming off ever there was.

Remember BOD...

No one has Daly in the mid week or on the Bench? He's a good utility to cover 13/11/15.

Thm has got the wrong end of the stick there.
Healy, SOB ,and Kearney are highly likely to be joining Sexton on a 'managed recovery's summer. Won't tour with Ireland, won't tour with Britain.
Henshaw's my wildcard to join them

8)

Robshaw didn't exactly have a great time of it last time England visited NZ. He may be improved now, but the lions won't win with steady solid 6 or 7/10 performances from the back row.

Healy, SOB ,and Kearney are highly likely to be joining Sexton on a 'managed recovery's summer.

Oh right I see. Kearney not much of of a loss anyway

No one has Daly in the mid week or on the Bench? He's a good utility to cover 13/11/15

I would like to see him play 15 at the top level before I trusted him with that. Could easily see him start at 13 if Joseph breaks. We will need paaaaace out wide.