Forum menu
Puts England's narrow wins into perspective.
French domestic season starts today. Some tasty looking early games Sep 3 / Game 3 and 10 / Game 4. Opening games in Paris tickets for €10 or €5 for students athough everyone still on holiday !
They don't look quite as piss poor as when they lost to the lions, but yeah, aus don't look great.
duckman - I suspect he considers it a good chance to improve his CV. Win the pro 12 with Glasgow - not unlikely and he will look good. Do well in europe ( not this year but next) and again - good on the CV.
Also a team with a nice ethos and a good package apart from salery
Teej, reports are that it was planned and when Hansen re-signed,they moved for Rennie. Cotter is not having his contract renewed! 😯
I am disappointed about Cotter. Bit of a gamble to go with Toonie. the gossip I have heard tho is that cotter was going to go anyway to a top english / French club and Toonie was listening to offers as well - so this move was a pre-emptive one to keep Toonie in Scotland.
We shall see if the Toonie move is a good one but Rennie for Glasgow seems like a universally acclaimed move
I was surprised Scotland got a coach as good as Cotter in the first place. Scotland don't have a big enough pool of quality players to consistently trouble the top teams - nothwithstanding several good results in isolation - and this must limit the attraction for top class coaches. Hence some of the duffers they've had.
Mind you, I'm disappointed Cotter is going because SCotland have been better under him.
Coaches must take jobs to further their CVs and Cotter and Rennie have certainly done this. The Chiefs played fabulous rugby under Rennie but the basic skills of that squad exceed those of any side in the 6N/NH.
BTW - welcome back TJ 😉
namaste - the duffers have mainly been because of the useless people in chanre of the appointments. But yes the scotland coach will never be a top job. So we get the choice of the second rate ( Johnson) or an up and coming coach wanting to make their CV better. Cotter was a surprise coup for us being neither.
So apparently Gatland will be announced as Lions coach soon. Thoughts?
I reckon he'll do OK and is about the best available. Its shit news for Wales though.
So seeing as how no one has asked I thought I'd have a stab at a lions 15
1 Gypsy hater/That Tongan with the welsh accent who plays for England.
2 Kiwi biter
3 WP Nel
4 Itoje
5 A N Other Englander
6 The England captain from when they were shit
7 Brand Hask
8 Not Toby
9 Webb
10 G Henson
11 North
12 Manu Samoa Tuilagi
13 ?
14 Watson
15 Loopy Liam
So thats 5 Welsh, 5/6 English, 2/3 Tongans, 1 Kiwi and a Saffa.
Edit hang on its 1/2 Tongans and 1 Samoan!! Clue is in his name 😆
No irish or scottish cause they are crap 😆
Jonny Gray AKA ickle Jonny would be a good shout for 2nd row. He has now gone two complete seasons with only missing two tackles and averages over 10 a game. Fantastic Engine. Gets overlooked because neither Glasgow nor Scotland use him as a main lineout jumper but he is one of Scotlands few world class players
The other one who should go is Stuart Hogg AKA Diddier Hoggba. Form attacking FB of the home nations
If you are struggling for centres then Bennett AKA the messiah or Duncan Taylor wouldn't let anyone down
However quite honestly I don't really want them to go. Too disrupting to the national side.
Gatland as lions coach is daft. He is a limited coach who has limited tactics and plays his favourites at the expense of better players. Lions will be smashed anyway he will just mean that they will not score tries. Playing wales+ with welsh tactics will not work.
My choice would be Baxter
Hogg will be Lions number 15 unless Ha'penny makes the greatest comeback since Lazarus. I also think younger Gray will be there abouts, I also suspect Russell will be on the plane at the very least...Oh and Nel is as Scottish as lots of the Welsh imports, probably more since as the SRU read the rules before capping him... 😛
Halfpenny
Watson
Joseph
Tuilagi
North
Cipriani
Webb
Faletau
Warburton
Hughes
Kruis
Itoje
Nel
Hartley (c)
Marler
Gatland as lions coach is daft. He is a limited coach
Yet he has a Lions series win and some grand slams under his belt. Given the lack of availabilty he is the best we can do. As for Baxter, is he the Exeter coach seem decent but inexperienced and unproven at international level.
It'll be a 3 nil anyway regardless of the coach!!
Hogg at 15 is a good shout for a token Scot but joking aside Liam Williams was brilliant v NZ this summer. Liam seems to have sorted his more, how can I put it, competitive side, has Hogg?
Cipriani
Please??!!! When has he played well at international level? I actually would prefer Henson!!!
Hogg the diver? Hogg the cheap shot arsehole? you have got to be kidding.
The way the Kiwis destroyed Australia you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
When has he played well at international level?
2008 - against Ireland.
The question should be when has he PLAYED at international level?
In the RWC warm-ups he looked terrific the few times he got on the field. Likewise in the 2015 6N against Italy. He also played well off the bench in the 1st test of the NZ tour in 2014.
Consistently great for Sale and solid for the Saxons against SA. Maybe if he has a good season for Wasps..........
I suspect the "no dickheads" factor keeps him out but he has more ability than most of the other 10s.
If he was Lions test quality he would have a good run of test caps by now. A consistent batch of coaches have not picked him. Henson has Lions caps so being a bell end is no barrier, as has Austin Healey but then maybe he was just picked to be a punch bag for O'Driscol!!
The way the Kiwis destroyed Australia you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
True but Wales gave them a game for 2 of the 3 tests up to about 50-60 mins and played some good attacking rugby.
Hogg is definitely calmed down a bit. I'd put his dickhead rating below Williams. Are fullbacks the new scrum halves? Many international FBs nowadays seem to be arses.
Russell won't be going I bet. Lost some form / been injured IIRC and especially if Gatland is the coach he is not the sort of player Gatland likes.
AA - Gatlands record agains SH sides with Wales? Worse than Scotlands 😉
His previous lions series win - that was a poor Aus side that we should have beaten easily. His selections and tactics made it harder than it should have been. the way he likes his teams to play is not the right way to beat teams teams in the top few of the rankings. all IMO from the comfort of my armchair 😉
Well Cips falls into that "untrustworthy maverick genius" category that befell the likes of Stuart Barnes, Matt Letissier, Frank Worthington, Mark Ramprakash etc etc.
He started brilliantly. Got badly injured. Was rushed back and played poorly. Fell out with the coaches and went to Australia where he fell in with the likes of Kurtley Beale at James O'Connor. Came back. Knuckled down well at Sale (apart from getting run over by a bus). Played well on limited appearances for England. Got done for drunk driving.
Lancaster wouldn't pick anyone a bit "flash" and history has proved him to have been a terrible international coach. EJ has hit a winning formula with Ford/Farrell and is unlikely to change.
Had Cipriani been handled better by an Alex Ferguson type figure in his early years it might have been a different story. In Josh Lewsey's book he reckoned Cipriani had the tools to be one of the greatest players ever, even though he was a dickhead.
you could have Jesus Christ coaching the Lions and they are going to go 0 for 3.
Well we had the next best thing last time - Sir Clive (gawd bless 'im) - and we still got trounced.
Wales gave them a game for 2 of the 3 tests up to about 50-60 mins and played some good attacking rugby.
True but it still added up to a 3-0 loss. However, Gats is the only real choice. He's pragmatic enough to pick the best players (English) and hopefully come up with a gameplan to go at the ABs hard enough to knock them off their stride.
We'll see. If Wales pip England at the next 6n then he has his chance to do Wales plus again. I hope not, I'd like to watch this series. Got ta be sexton or Farrell at 10.
Ryan bevington signed for Bristol, seem to remember him being quite useful, anyone have an opinion on him?
Gats will do Wales+ anyway. Its his style. some would say its justified given that he has little time to get to know players and for them to get used to each other. I bet its more than half the squad is welsh and that some new faces who most would think should go miss out. Players like Itoje and Kruis will miss out for Alun Wyn-jones. Its gatlands way - he does not like to take anything he considers a risk. He knows and trust AJW.
If England continue on their upward trajectory then I can see half the touring party being English. Gats will pick what he thinks are the best options and if England win back to back 6N and put together a winning streak against the SH he'll see the benefits.
2nd row is hardly a concern. We're blessed with massive depth - Kruis, Itoje, Launcbury, Lawes, AWJ, The Gray brothers, Toner and Henderson. They could all do a job for the Lions.
Ryan bevington signed for Bristol, seem to remember him being quite useful, anyone have an opinion on him?
Good rugby player, shit prop. Should have been chained to a scrum machine for the last two years to improve his weaknesses but has been injured.
AA - Gatlands record agains SH sides with Wales?
Shit, fail to see how thats important though. Wales are not very good. His record as a Lions coach is pretty good though. I'll ask this though who is available who could be better? Sad fact is in the modern day its not a dream job.
Gats will do Wales+ anyway
Did you see any of the welsh games v NZ this June. Very un Gatland like.
Players like Itoje and Kruis will miss out for Alun Wyn-jones. Its gatlands way - he does not like to take anything he considers a risk
Its Alun-Wyn Jones!! Leaving aside the fact that Itoje and Kruis were miles better than him last season and on current form would be in ahead of him, why should Gatland have risked anything last time? His job was to win a test series which he did. Also at the time Wales were the strongest of the home nations so more of those players got picked. Currently England are and should form the bulk of the squad. Sir Clive picking the world cup winning team when they were passed their sell by date was far worse.
True about Woodwood
It's a stain on Woodward that will never be removed, nearly destroyed the whole Lions ethos.
In other news this is awful but might just help things improve!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/23/cillian-willis-sue-sale-sharks-concussion-saracens
Wasn't he in peaky blinders?
Henson for the Lions, lovely delayed pass at 33s and great offload at 44s. Varndell still has some wheels!!!
The season hasn't even started and we are talking about Chippy. He has just been done for drink driving having tried to lie his way out of it. His lack of a brain counts against him. A lot. As it should.
Personally I think Gatland would be a terrible choice as coach.
Personally I think Gatland would be a terrible choice as coach.
Why and who else is available, wants it and is better?
Cotter?
Cotter is with Scotland till the end of the season. Gatland has a sabatical clause in his contract. Wales will be left with Stan Laurel in charge again for the year when world cup seedings are decided!!
I'd like to see Dai Young and Baxter take it on.
I see Mike Ford is out of a job at present.....I'd sooner have Gatland!!!
I'd like to see Dai Young and Baxter take it on.
Why? They have no international experience of coaching. It should be a job for the best coach in Britain. Sad fact is none of them either want it or would be allowed to do it by their employers so Gatland is the best available. Even sadder is the fact that I doubt Young or Baxter would be allowed to leave their current jobs for the time needed. Its getting harder and harder to see how the lions can keep going in the future.
Still at least I still have Gav!!!
Gatland doesn't have the nouse to beat the all blacks, this is a known so throw some wild cards into the mix. Jones doesn't want it. Cotter can't do it. Gatland has done it before, and doesn't merit it.
Cotter could do it. He asked to be considered. I don't want him to but as he is leaving and his replacement is ready to step in its not an issue
MY choice is Baxter simply because I like the way exceter play and he has improved them
Gatland doesn't have the nouse to beat the all blacks, this is a known
Is this a Jambafact. Wales havent beaten the Allblacks since 1953 and we've had two who have gone on to win world cups.
Cotter could do it. He asked to be considered. I don't want him to but as he is leaving and his replacement is ready to step in its not an issue
Cotter leaves scotland after autumn internationals, who takes over? Are Glasgow just expected to bend over?
Remember Glasgow are the bulk of the Scotland team. tactics and style are similar. Glasgow are SRU run. Toonie does both for the six nations with the Glasgow assistants stepping up?
All I know is Cotter made it clear he was interested but now seems to be out of the running anyway.
Is this a Jambafact. Wales havent beaten the Allblacks since 1953 and we've had two who have gone on to win world cups.
It's a real fact. Gatand has had his chance many times and came up short. He'll get the job but he shouldn't.
What has Cotter done to get so much adulation? International record isn't exactly stellar played 28 lost 14 won 14. How does that qualify hin to be the Lions coach?
TBF Gatlands win record is only marginally better 😆
It's a real fact. Gatand has had his chance many times and came up short
Er you do realise he's coached a lions test win? You do realise that the rest of the time he's coaches wales who arent very good and both Henry and Hansen failed to beat the All Blacks with Wales and they did alright later in their career? I'm no massive Gatland fan but he is a good coach and to say he lacks the nous to beat top teams is just lazy. So far hr has lacked the players.