Bath outplayed Glasgow a couple of seasons ago by slowing the ball and retaining possession. an absolute masterclass in how to deal with Glasgow
Just for giggles - Itoje that everyone raves about ( and I think him a fine player)
1 kick, 4 passes, 4 runs for 4m no lineouts stolen 8 tackles non missed 2 pens conceded one yellow ( a bit unlucky)no turnovers conceded
Ickle jonny
4 passes 7 carries for 5m one lineout stolen 16 tackles non missed 2 pens given away, one turnover conceded no cards
Jonny is involved in the whole game all the time - fantastic engine on him. I still rate him as one of if not the best lock around
TJ - I hope he is that good, because the Lions will need him. Itoje is both a physical specimen, and intelligent. Stats are irrelevant without context. Different game plans will produce different numbers.
Slightly OT, but well done to Sam Burgess on the captaincy of England RL. Such a shame he was never given time to settle properly in RU as I would love to have seen him in a few years. Playing him at different positions for club & country was just ridiculous.
Also, If JG is as good around the park as you say, is there any prospect of him in the back row?
I still rate him as one of if not the best lock around
He IS very good, no doubt, but he might not even make the Lions when you consider AWJ, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Toner and Henderson will all be in the frame. Not to mention his brother too......
Out of that list, Itoje will be going as a 6, Launchbury looks way off the pace this season, haven't seen AWJ this year, but wee Gray is better than Kruis, Henderson and def Toner who I don't rate at all. He is not better than Lawes who has been immense in a crap Saints team.
dantsw13 - no - too slow for a back rower. I like fast backrowers ( but he will be faster than Haskell I guess)
Duckman - I feel Lawes has not somehow reached his potential. Has he been better this year? (not seen him play) I thought he could become a great but somehow didn't. I've never really been an AWJ fan. Perhaps I need to watch him play again. I shall go stat hunting
Plenty good locks around for the lions. Lots of competition and someone will miss out.
Out of that list, Itoje will be going as a 6
I doubt it unless Itoge gets some time at 6 this autumn. He's a second row through and through really.
Those stats are pretty irrelevant when you consider that sarries were playing Toulon, Glasgow an out of sorts tiggers.
Lies damn lies and statistics of course! Grey has now missed 3 tackles in the last 3 seasons. shocking stuff.
Out of sorts tigers? - 4th in their league Toulon 4th in theirs.
AWJ stats at the weekend - and if Ickle Jonny had easier opposition that Itoje then AWJ had even easier
1 kick 7 passes 12 runs for 7 m ( he got his hands on the ball a lot)
14 tackles 2 missed 2 turnovers conceded no lineouts stolen
AWJ was outstanding against the ABs - that's all you need to know, especially as it's the ABs we'll be playing.
Toner does look like some gangly bloke from accounts but he and Henderson were very effective against the Boks - who have a good 2nd row themselves.
I think Launchbury is coming back gradually but if Itoje goes to the back row he'll get a good run out in the Autumn series and we'll see where he's at.
JG better than Kruis? Maybe, but Kruis does all that dull spadework while Itoje runs around doing all the stuff that gets noticed. Brian Moore described him as like a modern day Wade Dooley but "without the violence".
I wish there were stats for rucks hit as well - Ickjle jonny is right in the game all the time. Co captain as well
I've never really been an AWJ fan.
Dear God!!
I reckon he might not make the tour though. Itoje, Kruis, J Grey and Lawes all better at the moment. He was quite poor last season carrying knocks. I think he may be past his best..hope I'm wrong.
Oh and Itoje at 6? In NZ. Hes a cracking player but doubt Kaino will be fazed by a big lump whilst he's running rings round him.
We seem to have this obsession with big back rows in the NH that NZ do not have. McCaw who is maybe the best of all time is not that big - and Hamish Watson who is only a tiny bit smaller than McCaw is considered by many to be too small for international play
( but he will be faster than Haskell I guess)
But the Hask did flourish under Jones - I thought he was a meathead, but he was immense in Australia this summer.
Whoever goes on the Lions will be in for a tough time - the way the AB's are playing at the moment, it'll be a good effort to be competitive.
Lions back row; If he plays there for Engerland Itoje, V-P and Warburton if he recovers ...So: two Welshmen 😀
(In before A-A)
I firmly believe that Itoje has the makings of a true world class 6,and the capacity and ability to do it before the tour.
I just dont see the Lions bullying NZ up front by picking say Vunipola, Itoje and Hask as a backrow. NZ would move them around too much in defence by varying the point of attack and then I cant see them steam rollering the NZ pack when we have the ball. Wales and others have had the most success against them by playing with quick ball and variety. A monster front 5 a balanced backrow and quick thinking backs who combine pace and power. We also need a really quick back 3 who can defend well.
No idea who these players are but playing our best lock at 6 isnt the answer.
Warburton is broke again and hasnt been in good form for a while.
Vunipola,Robshaw and Tipuric on current form imo.
I think Faletau is the best 8 in Britain at the moment but he's broken too. A better all round player than Vunipola who is a better carrier.
Having said that **** it Vunipola 8 Faletau 7 and Itoje 6...that at least make them think!!
Warburton is Gatland's captain, he will obviously be going! Did you see the shift V-P put in against Toulon?
Yep. I said on here he has improved and looks lighter and fitter was outstanding v Wasps too. Just think Faletau is the better player I've seen the shifts he has put in for Wales for years. His defensive work rate in unreal, wins lineouts, links attacks, makes hard yards. Only place Vunipola is better is carrying into and through contact
Back row. Hardie if he finds some form this year? How about Hamish Watson if you want a back row with pace? Barclay?
Havent really seen Watson. Barclay is a fine player but seems out of favour with Scotland.
Watson is a young Flanker who is fast and totally fearless with great ball stealing skills but because he is a bit smaller than McCaw and a lot smaller than the usual NH flanker finds it hard to get into the team. I really rate him but it was not a serious suggestion.
I like the idea of Itoje as a 6. He is a fine player and we need to find space for him in the team but with so many great second rows around him playing 6 would allow Ickle jonny, AWJ, ( or a n other lock) plus Itoje in the same team
Tipuric should be in with a shout at 7, particularly if he gets a good run for Wales with warb injured. Itoge unlikely to be at 6 as a starter, warrenball will prob select Lydia the to play alongside faletau and tipuric....no matter who is performing at present, he's still going to select lots and lots of Welsh players.
Agree massively with a_a on kruis, he's so important to England and already better than lawes and launch. For all of the showy stuff, you need a grafter.
A grafter? Ickle jonny is your man! I can't wait for the lions squad to be named - I look forward to the arguments already!
some positions we ( the home nations) have an embarrassment of riches - in other areas the cupboard looks very bare
Tighthead springs to mind, I would expect Nel to make the plane but who else? And as TJ says, Wee Gray is your grafter, or "Dog" as the Kiwi's would call it, a totally different player to his brother and a really, really, horrible barsteward on the park. Think the lovechild of somebody quick and athletic and Jim Hamilton.
Zander Fagerson? Was in the scrum.com lions team of the week. Might be 4 or 8 years too soon for him 😉
Faletau so good he's been named in the Wales squad as one of their wild card playing in foreignville players!
Forwards: Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Rhys Gill (Cardiff Blues), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Bath Rugby), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Rory Thornton (Ospreys), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (capt, Cardiff Blues).Backs: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Sam Davies (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Scarlets).
Some ****ing dross in that. Scott Andrew as 3rd choice tight head and The Fat Sais as second choice is a shocker.
Gethin
Owens
Samson
Charteris ( has he played this season?)
AWJ
Moriarty
Tips
Warburton
Webb
Biggar
North
Roberts
Davies
1/2p
Williams
Only real questions are who will play 8 from Moriarty and Warbs and who will play 15 from Williams and 1/2p.
We play Aus outside the window so will lose (the game but also) Moriarty, North, Charteris and maybe 1/2p. Expect Lydiate,B Davies, Amos/Cuhbert to come in.
If Warburton isnt fit in time we are ****ed.
Watching the 2006 European cup final between Munster and Biaritz on Sky Sports 5 - the game seems to be faster paced than it is now and the scrums are a joy to watch-2 big packs standing 2 yards from each other and launching into the hit.
BlindMelon - Member
Stuff like this makes rugby
Indeed. A great gesture.
#rugbyfamily
I am in the unusual position of wanting Glasgow to lose today,albeit by less than 7 and having scored 4 tries. Ideally by a Munster side coming roaring back in the last 20 mins.
ABs 37-10 over Wallabies. 18 wins ina row.
Despite the eventual scoreline the Aussies played reasonably well. A contentious TMO call at 15-10 denied them a 17-15 lead when Henry Speight's try was called back.
The ABs made rare visits to the opposition 22 but seemed to score a try every time.
Matt Todd is as good a 7 as anyone else. Beuden Barrett is not a test class goal kicker. The Bus is back - some dodgy handling in the first half but on the rampage thereafter.
Roll on the Autumn tests.
Great to see Toulon allstars at the AJ Bell last night. Sale contained Nonu and Bastereud well, Gordodze man of the match although I think they were all overshadowed by Will Addison!
An inexplicable decision by the referee to card Lund after about 8 minutes ruined the game and Toulon scored all of their points during that 10 minute spell, then never looked like scoring again. Sale pressed and showed great fight but even as a Sale fan Toulon looked to have bodies to spare in defence. Disappointed not to see a Toulon player get yellow after multiple infringements in their 22 which may have given us something to shout about in the last 10 mins.
All in all a good performance by Sale but left regretting points dropped last week against the weakest side in the group.
Not too bad for a "small town in Cheshire" 🙂
Beuden Barrett is not a test class goal kicker.
Havent seen todays game but he is an amazingly good attacking 10. His pace is breath taking.
inexplicable decision by the referee to card Lund after about 8 minutes
It was a late, no armed cheapshot to the back. Had it been just late or just no arms he would have got away with it.
1/2p looks to be lacking pace and bang out of form.
Was an appalling second half from a neutrals point of view. Toulon were poor and Sale are rubbish...
Still get to see Scarlets get torn a new one by the Sarries pack this afternoon!! Only 1 of the Scarlets pack would stand a chance of getting in the Sarries pack.
It looked unsighted, Lund was committed and the player offloaded with his back to Lund. Borderline decision so early on in what could have been a good contest. Type of inconsistency that is frustrating.
he is an amazingly good attacking 10. His pace is breath taking.
That's all true but England wouldn't pick him!
Actually, they replaced him with Cruden relatively early - 45 mins. Cruden brought better control and kicking but still helped them open it up in the latter stages.
Lund was committed
Committed to a late cheapshot.
That's all true but England wouldn't pick him!
Nailed on at full back. NZ have Smith, Dagg and BB who are all streets ahead of any other full back in Europe.
I'm surprised at the Sale Toulon score line; I was expecting a big win for Toulon.
Munster seem to be giving Glasgow a good goungbiver judging by the live scores.
Great first half from Edinburgh. Some excellent turnovers really exposing Quins.
TJ - I see what you mean about Watson - a classic specialist openside; a rare thing in the NH these days...
Just watched the Toulon/Sale "highlights". mleh.
Edinburgh backs looking fun. Forwards hardly covering themselves in glory from set pieces though. Score flattering.
Is Marler carrying a few extra pounds these days?
Love seeing Brown on the wrong end of it!!!
Not impressed with Key Turls today. Clear red. Should have just walked, no need for the petulant follow up.
And yes, I know there had been Axel's funeral yesterday. Still not what I like to see from rugby.
Whathappened to Brown?
