Its not optimism. Its a statement of where we are. Want to challenge the big boys we need to beat them. this year is the best opportunity for a while and we have fallen short.
Once Scotland got behind they forced it too much and when they started attacking wide off poor ball and the forward effort had dropped off and the weren’t getting front foot ball they were easy pickings for Ireland.
Yeah sadly the confidence they have built thus far in 6N just evaporated at that moment, and didn't really come back.
They'll beat Italy for sure.
Its not optimism. Its a statement of where we are.
As good as the national side is just now, I think it is a brief spike. It isn’t where we are because there are no players left in Scotland.There are probably thirty clubs in Scotland with a 2xv. Dundee; 1 state school plays rugby and only up to u14. I am back playing for my first club at 54 so they can get to the end of the season before they fold on their terms; that will be 3 clubs in Dundee gone since Covid with another unlikely to start next year.The u20’s score should be all over the rugby sites as a stark warning of what is to come. I don’t think we will get out of our WC group at which point our 30 somethings will retire.
Can't really argue with any of that. Arguably, it's the fact that Scottish people tend to travel for work and have kids while they are abroad that's keeping the national team in business.
As duckman says we're staring down a hole.
When I played at Gala there was Gala, the YM (3teams) and the Star (3teams) now only Gala and YM 1st, not enough player for much else. Hawick has lost two junior clubs with another teetering.
It'll be a national side with very few UK passport holders soon (not that there's many now) and then where's the drive for younger players?
Can’t really argue with any of that. Arguably, it’s the fact that Scottish people tend to travel for work and have kids while they are abroad that’s keeping the national team in business.
Yep, I would say your SA B team players and other imports are papering over the cracks. Without them you would be in the same place as Wales.
Oh god scotland rugby going down also?
This is bad news.
Yep, I would say your SA B team players and other imports are papering over the cracks. Without them you would be in the same place as Wales.
What about your imports?
What about your imports?
We have quite a few less but they do the same thing. Only really Anscombe at moment and he's permacrocked
Want to challenge the big boys we need to beat them. this year is the best opportunity for a while and we have fallen short.
First you have to consistently beat your peers, and lesser teams like England, home and away, which you've done. It took a lot of work and time for France and Ireland to advance to where they are, and there's no reason to think that Scotland have peaked.
and there’s no reason to think that Scotland have peaked.
Someone obviously hasn't seen the latest Scotland U20s result 🙂
There are probably thirty clubs in Scotland with a 2xv
That’s probably a bit low, but the number isnt in the 100’s. I’m playing for Annan 2nds. Apart from Dumfries, there isnt any Club in D&G who regularly put out 2 teams. We’ve had more games cancelled than we’ve played this year. We’ve only won one game, yet finished 5th in the halfway league table, all due to other Clubs cancelling, so we get the win points.
we were at Langholm 2 weeks ago, amazing little Club who have had 6+ Scottish players, one Lion, and various other top players in their past, yet they are down to one team.
It isnt just Scotland, my English Club is thriving with 2 teams whenever they can get 2 fixtures, but, they are struggling to get fixtures, as other teams cannot get a 2nd XV out. Wales are in an even worse state according to a friend from Newport. The Minis, girls,under 14’s etc are thriving, but once they hit 15, they do not stay playing, so the Senior teams are short of players.
I’ve been playing a long time, in that time I have seen at least 30 local (within 30 miles) Clubs fold. Almost always due to lack of players. The RFU seem oblivious to this, and , as long as the income from the internationals keeps coming in, they are happy to carry on as they are. That some Welsh Regions are close to folding, and 2 English Premiership Clubs have finished in the last 6 months does not seem to have registered on their radar yet.
That’s probably a bit low, but the number isnt in the 100’s.
Just added up all the 2XV's in the reserve leagues and district leagues in Scotland ( don't work Mondays and mildly unwell after Murrayfield yesterday.) There are 56 2xv's in Scotland and 11 3xv's. But there are only 10 2xv's outside of Glasgow and Edinburgh. So yeah, I was pessimistic. However; according to the SRU there are 38,500 participants in Scotland which is just over 138 players per club!
Someone obviously hasn’t seen the latest Scotland U20s result
I think you have to be careful taking too much meaning from this, U20s is a narrow slice of the pool of future players.
First you have to consistently beat your peers, and lesser teams like England, home and away, which you’ve done.
Accurate.
Re duckmans comment about those over 30 requiring. I counted them there are 12 in the current Scotland squad who will be 31 or older this year. I won't give you the names the bare numbers are frightening enough.
PS. Anything to avoid working
But there are only 10 2xv’s outside of Glasgow and Edinburgh. So yeah, I was pessimistic
You also forgot to include 1/3 of the SA players as well 🤪
Hogg and Russell out for Italy. KInghorns gonna have to play 10 and 15 🙂
Hogg and Russell out for Italy. KInghorns gonna have to play 10 and 15
Interesting, could Ben Healy get a game?
Thats what folk are saying but I think it would be the wrong thing to do. He maybe is one for the future but its far too soon. He has not been added to the squad as far as I know
anagallis_arvensis
Full Member
You also forgot to include 1/3 of the SA players as well 🤪
You dream of being able to afford Saffers!
You dream of being able to afford Saffers!
Yes, you are right, if only we could buy our way to the dizzy highs of 3 six nations wins in a season!
YOu need to buy better! According to this there are 11 non welshborn players in the squad
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatlands-six-nations-squad-8495955
Yes, you are right, if only we could buy our way to the dizzy highs of 3 six nations wins in a season!
Clearly bought your last G/S with money you don’t have. Maybe it should be Saracens and not Ealing that are buying a team from the WRU?
Only kidding AA and I hope the weather improves before the weekend, otherwise Ken Owen’s Mum will never get the strips for Saturday out to dry, who are you playing again?
According to this there are 11 non welshborn players in the squad
That's from 2015. This is more recent:
https://www.ruck.co.uk/foreign-born-players-in-the-2023-six-nations-breakdown-by-country/
France 4
England 5
Italy 6
Wales 7
Ireland 8
Scotland 21
**** me, we're back to the birther arguments?
Like I said earlier, Scots travel and while they travel they have kids.
It wouldn't surprise me if the number of people with Scottish parents or grandparents who were born outside of Scotland outnumber the number of people born in Scotland.
Ken Owen’s Mum will never get the strips for Saturday out to dry, who are you playing again?
No idea, I think I'm busy this weekend.
This is more recent:
Tshiunza, Faletau, North all non Welsh born but all have grown up in Wales and have come through the Welsh system...all are Welsh.
This is more recent:
Tshiunza, Faletau, North all non Welsh born but all have grown up in Wales and have come through the Welsh system…all are Welsh
and you can have Tompkins and Cuthbert back, so that only really leaves us with Francis and Roberts
Like I said earlier, Scots travel and while they travel they have kids.
And some get capped by Australia but then get to end their career playing for the lesser team!! 🤪
and you can have Tompkins and Cuthbert back, so that only really leaves us with Francis and Roberts
Cuthbert was a good player ten years ago! Roberts is awful, he can go back to Ireland...Francis we'll keep in the hope he finds some form
It's because we are all incredibly attractive and all the natives we encounter on our travels want to bed us.
*preens*
I think foreign born is a slightly arbitrary measure, lots of people work abroad and many return home to raise their kids, Ronan O'Gara was born in the US, Jamie Heaslip was born in Israel. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing they are not Irish. The project players are different, Lowe, Stander etc. First thing Stander did after retiring was return to SA, I cheered him playing for Ireland but looking back I would have preferred someone with a stronger connection to the country, even if he was another bloody Leinster squad player.
It's an easy standard surely. You have to hold a passport for that country to qualify for that country.
It’s an easy standard surely. You have to hold a passport for that country to qualify for that country.
We don't need another Scottish (or Welsh) independence thread 😉
Scotland might have beaten NZ at one thing then...hoovering up players from other countries.
I'll take a win over NZ, any win over NZ.😁
Turns out 50 Million people claim Scottish ancestry, so looks like Teej has been doing more than preening ( tilts head,pours bleach into ear.) This thread has taken a rather strange turn, hasn't it?
Turns out 50 Million people claim Scottish ancestry, so looks like Teej has been doing more than preening ( tilts head,pours bleach into ear.
Isn’t he genetically English?
Isn’t he genetically English?
NOpe - I share 60% of my genes with the Sami people of lapland! The rest the usual mix of Dane, German and French 🙂
So the Wooden spoon is that for coming last or for no wins? Asking for a friend, you know, just in case Scotland **** it up again!!!
In theory its zero wins. However usually nowadays used in the 6N for bottom of the table
I say the wooden spoon is no wins. It's the opposite of a Grand Slam.
But I also say that a billion is a million million, not a thousand million, so no one pays any attention to what I think.
It was always used to be zero wins, that was before people started to use points scored, tries etc to separate teams with the same number of points. I was at the Ireland V Wales game in 1990 when Wales got their first one. Game was a Wooden Spoon decider something we thought was quite funny but Wales were seriously unhappy about.
World XV v Italy.
15. Ollie Smith (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
14. Kyle Steyn (Glasgow Warriors) 9 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) 35 caps
12. Sione Tuipulotu (Glasgow Warriors) – Vice-Captain – 15 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh Rugby) 27 caps
10. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) 42 caps
9. Ben White (London Irish) 13 caps
1. Pierre Schoeman (Edinburgh Rugby) 20 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) 34 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 57 caps
4. Sam Skinner (Edinburgh Rugby) 24 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) – Vice-Captain – 76 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh Rugby) – Captain – 40 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) 56 caps
8. Jack Dempsey (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps
Replacements
16. Ewan Ashman (Sale Sharks) 6 caps
17. Rory Sutherland (Ulster Rugby) 22 caps
18. WP Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) 53 caps
19. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) 24 caps
20. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 32 caps
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) 60 caps
22. Ben Healy (Munster) uncapped
23. Cameron Redpath (Bath Rugby) 4 caps
