What Is The Most Efficient Pedalling Style? We Test Flat Vs. Clipless Pedals | GCN Does Science
I can't stand being on a bike if I'm not clipped in. Road or MTB - I just don't feel safe.
Clipless pedals became second nature pretty quickly - as soon as they were available as an option to toe-clips & straps (never got the hang of them), I was in there!
Never had a problem being attached to the bike in a crash - 99% of the time, both feet are out before I hit the deck.
I guess it's what you're used to and the style of riding you do, but I can't ride flats and have no wish to. The only time I can see them being necessary is on North Shore style obstacles and big jumps, where you may need to bail.
http://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke.html#hgclfOxYzEobG2Zc.97
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Which-Muscles-are-Really-Used-During-the-Pedal-Stroke-2012.html
http://velocitysportscycling.com/cycling-myth-busting-from-team-sky/
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/training/how-to-pedal-efficiently-173185
Its funny that franki because im the opposite! Off road anyway I find I back off completely if i'm clipped in because I cant move about like I want to and dont 'feel' safe.
Lack of 'practice' maybe? I dunno.
As for always coming out of the clips when you crash - nope. Been there and had a very awkward crash which would have been very minor if my feet weren't attached!
Ill have a look at that vid later. Too long for right now but looks interesting.
Most people I ride with who ride clipped in use It as an excuse to not ride anything really steep, not do jumps and drops
Then they are just looking for excuses! I jump my bike clipped in. Because I've been doing it long enough it's second nature. You find that a little twist of the foot is so instinctive after a while that your foot is always free when it needs to be.
Jumps etc are better on flats (with appropriate shift in technique) but for me the disadvantages of flats outweigh the advantages. I find that for good flat usage I needed soft soled shoes, which are horrible to pedal far in. SPD shoes are much stiffer.
It's not so much about pulling up on the upstroke, it's about smoother pedalling, closer to circles. Also your feet can't slip off when clipped in. Mangled shins? I have none.
You sexist pig.
Oh yeah - I'll second the above. With multi-release cleats on minimum tension your foot should basically fall out on its own - so if you still can't unclip easily something is up with your shoes or cleat position or something.
It's the 10 to 1 o'clock position where clipless give you an advantage.
With multi-release cleats on minimum tension your foot should basically fall out on its own
Surely this is the worst of both worlds? Getting your feet out of clipless is easy once you've mastered it.
Yes, but I was just pointing out to the OP that he may have a shoe issue.
Its funny that franki because im the opposite! Off road anyway I find I back off completely if i'm clipped in because I cant move about like I want to and dont 'feel' safe.
My worry is my feet slipping or bouncing off the pedals if I'm not clipped-in.
I'm very much an XC rider though - I like climbing as much as descending and I'm not interested in jumps and the like.
I'm on flats off road
Clipped in on the road (but I have doubled sided pedals so I can do local pottering around or supermarket runs in normal shoes)
Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
Only the ones where you fall off sideways in the car-park.Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
I haven't fallen off clipped in for decades. In proper crashes, my feet always come out regardless, and I'm not really sure how!
Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
dunno, it doesn't happen.
The overwhelming benefit (especially on the road) for me, is that you can relax your feet, it's amazing how tense they need to be on flats, and how much just doing that makes to how tense the rest of your body is.
nickc - Memberdunno, it doesn't happen.
Yes it does. Seen some nasty ones including a guy with a dislocated kneecap having his pedal unscrewed by paramedics so they could extract him from the bike. (easier than the shoe, apparently) And some funny ones where (frexample) WIll went over the bars at 1imp and got stuck on his nose.
It's not common, though.
sorry, i should've probably said
doesn't happen "to me". My bike seems to be magically somewhere else when I'm crashing 😆
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/why-you-dont-want-to-push-through-the-ball-of-your-foot-when-you-pedal-2014.html
Sounds like a pretty simplistic argument to me, not least because if I try and squat while keeping my feet flat on the floor I fall over backwards.
That's just a balance/flexibility thing. I can squat flat footed if i need too.
And ball of your foot over pedal axle was fairly thoroughly debunked 10 odd years ago. Even for those clipped in.
Pretty much like KOPS, which is still trotted out by a good percentage of bike "fitters".
I'm in the road=clipless/MTB=flats club too, for extra irony I use MTB SPDs on the racer. Everyone who uses clipless has had a "Delboy falls through the bar trap" moment, I'd bet my feet on it. :),
The overwhelming benefit (especially on the road) for me, is that you can relax your feet, it's amazing how tense they need to be on flats, and how much just doing that makes to how tense the rest of your body is.
This is a large part of it for me. Not having to worry about what your feet are doing. Not fidgeting about. Just purely concentrating on the movement of your legs. Everything becomes so simple.
That's on the road. And on the road I don't see a whole lot of reasons NOT to ride clipped in.
Off-road, I think there are a lot of advantages and disadvantages both ways. Some of which have been pointed out already. So it ultimately comes down to your riding style and what you prefer.
I swing both ways and ride both flats and SPDs off-road. Not inherently more comfortable in either, but to echo Junkyard's thoughts really;
* I find I have increased control on slippery-steep climbs with SPDs, being able to pull-up easily (it's a different action to the scooping action on flats) makes the power to the back wheel smoother.
* For me flats come into their own when I've had to dab and want to carry on riding. Almost the only reason I crash and can blame the SPDs, it's because I'm not clipped in properly and trying to ride a steep techy bit.
* I prefer the smaller pedal size of SPDs. Less to hook up.
* I don't have any of teh Rad skillz whether I'm on flats or SPDs. Sad times. 🙁
Keep giving SPDs a go. It's nice to try something different. Fat bike, singlespeed, SPDs, flats.. it's all good as long as it's a bit of a challenge and you're having fun.
Mtbtom +1 with a different spin of personal preferences
Pedally stuff and winter slop give me Spds (overshoes being enough of an argument for Spds on their own!) or a long day on the bike for pedalling efficiency from the stiffer soles of the shoes.
Farting about fun riding or pedal up and blast down flats are good.
Flowy/fast singletrack either is good.
No need for it to be black and white.
Clips are just to much hassle i used them in the past but i like to just get on and go.
I prefer clipped in on the road, not so much for being clipped in but because it's easier to get nice stiff soled shoes to work well with spd type pedals, so my feet don't get as tired on longer rides.
I did use toeclips and cleats back in my youth but they are harder to find nowadays and simply not as easy to use.
Of road, I made the switch from clipped in to flat pedals a couple of years ago after nearly 20 years and I find it so much better on technical stuff, mainly because of the ability to quickly get my foot on and off, and to reposition it.. Don't notice the effects of softer soles quite as much too, but that's more because I don't tend to do much more than 20 or so miles at a time on the mtb.
Horses for courses, but worth persevering past the initial faff just to see it if actually does work for you...
There's no reason to use spds if you happily use flats. They won't make you better or faster. A lot of my riding is incredibly steep and slippery and flats work best, why change?
I'd move on to thinking about something else.
I could have a think about calendars I suppose!
Actually, that's another good question point though, presumably because of the stiff soles and lack of foot movement, I find my feet get much colder when clipped in.
To be fair, its been shit all round and there doesn't seem to be a massive incentive to persevere.
Meh.
I've run clipless on the road for years so SPD felt more natural on mtb.
But I did start to have issues running spd recently when I got my first northwave boot. Even running new cleats there is a lot more twist needed to release. Suspect the cleats are more recessed but this could be related to why you couldn't release even on a low tension.
I've been using SPDs off-road for years now and am unlikely to change due to cost of switching. One of my favourite things about SPDs is they rarely hit the ground when riding in ruts.
Everywhere you turn lately there seems to be someone preaching about the "pulling up myth", it seems rather assumptive. I've tried intentionally pulling up but it doesn't last long as it's unintuitive and quickly forgotten. And it wears me out in no time at all due to rapidly increasing cadence. So basically I never do it - unless there's a subconscious effort to do so but I suspect that would only be quite minimal.
I like them fairly loose, only just tight enough to prevent them popping out when doing jumps/drops/etc. Staying clipped-in at the wrong time only seems to happen during those slow bungling fall-over moments. Mainly.
Tried flats a little while ago on a borrowed bike and nearly jumped over the handlebars trying to do a bunnyhop.
😉Tried flats a little while ago on a borrowed bike and nearly jumped over the handlebars trying to do a [b]lazy [/b]bunnyhop.
SPDs for MTB racing* and road for me
Flats for commuting and general MTB* and trials
I think recognising the benefits of both, while choosing what is right for you is the key. If you only use one type then obviously the other is going to feel weird/wrong and you'll be lacking in the technique (for that type), but that doesn't make the other type wrong, and you've not got some magic all over advantage. I'm a big believer in using both, where appropriate in your own personal judgement.
*with occasional SPD MTB rides thrown in
It seems too much of a faff to me to have a mix of flats and clipped, especially since i've only one MTB. Some have said what's the point of moving to lipless. The same argue applies about going to flats from clippless. Once you're used to clipless pedals then what's the benefit of flats? Once you're used to clipless you can get out of them instantly without a thought.
Ultimately its what you're used to and as glasgowdan say's just use what you're used to and get on with it. If you have a particular desire to change then go for it.
wobbliscott - MemberOnce you're used to clipless pedals then what's the benefit of flats?
Thing is, yes SPDs mean you don't have to think about footwork, soft legs, jumping properly etc. But does that mean you shouldn't? The same techniques that make flats work, are also almost all useful on SPDs- better SPD riders are still using them even though they don't need to. I doubt there's a pro mtb rider in the world who couldn't seamlessly ride in flats frinstance even though most choose spds for performance reasons.
Basically it all adds up to riding with the bike, in partnership with it, rather than having to be held on because you're doing something different to it. And the forces that would have blown your foot off if you were wearing flats don't go away just because you're bolted on- they still unsettle the bike and they still leave you riding less smoothly. If you can't bunnyhop on flats, frinstance then you can't bunnyhop full stop and that's a whole useful subset of skills that you're missing out on just because you have a workaround.
Whether you care or not of course is your business and I don't mean that cheekily- if you're happy with your riding, nothing wrong with that. But I learned a lot about pedalling and commitment from SPDs then took that back to my flats (and a mate learned to stop constantly dabbing after years of thinking it made him faster) and anyone who gets on flats and discovers they can't ride, could learn a lot from flats then transfer that back to SPDs and ride better.
So I honestly reckon anyone who's interested in riding well should learn both. I don't mean try- do, there is no try, practically nobody swaps pedals and instantly likes it. It's undermining and distracting and makes you ride like a less good rider. You should expect not to like it. And then once you're skilled with both you'll know for sure that you're using the one that's best for you, and most likely you'll transfer valuable skills and experience back to the other.
Soft legs, jumping properly etc. applies to riding clipped in too - you can actually feel that when you get it right - if you're not fighting the bike or the trail then you've got it right. I've always ridden clipped in, but also have learned the benefit of good technique (know the theory but not always able to put it into practice, that's why I keep trying and why i'm not a pro). Being clipped in can let you get away with bad habbitts, but if you have a desire to improve, you will learn the best technique whether you are clipped in or not. it is not a prerequisite that in order to learn good technique you have to do it on flats.