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Cheese isn't really that bad for you though is it? I mean quitting smoking... that makes sense, but cheese??
I think I'd rather just exercise more than give up the chance of another cheese board.
[i]Cheese isn't really that bad for you though is it? I mean quitting smoking... that makes sense, but cheese??
I think I'd rather just exercise more than give up the chance of another cheese board.
[/i]
😆
I'll pretend you haven't read the post properly...
Then you can start another thread about food and our immune systems, yadda.
😉
Oh, and wrt your binging on crap food.
I think it would help newbie / potential iDieters to be aware of the context for [b]your[/b] eating [i]habits[/i]
You know ?, how you're an exercise addict, can't sit still activity junky.
Which is why you can eat all that stuff, not just on your day-off and still maintain your goal weight, or there abouts.
😉
Oh, and wrt your binging on crap food.
Nothing crap about it... Waitrose nicest Creme Brulee and Heston Blumenthingy popcorn.
Most I've done the last couple of weekends is walk to the pub.
Whilst we're throwing the accusations around you are a bit of of an iZealot. I imagine I can go without exercise more easily than you can live without controlling your food?
I'll buy you some cheese after the Cheshire Cat TSY
I'll be getting some fast carbs in 🙂 Fast carbs and cream 🙂
TSY.
Sorry, I'm too tired today and too chuffed for Ton, to argue.
If you're seriously telling me you can't get your iDiet correct.
Then so be it.
The rest of us seem to be doing fine.
Sometimes with a bit of trial and error. Granted.
But the overwhelming majority are getting it right.
😉
Fair enough Solo. I was trying to bait you into writing a long poem-like post on the subject.
FWIW - I don't try and iDiet. Because other healthy diets are available.
Personally I just listen to my body and give it what it's telling me it needs.
Haha... it worked see... look what you've written down there x x
TSY.
I've just read your stealth edit.
[i]iZealot[/i]
😆
Nah, no chance.
iDave doesn't love me anymore.
I'm just intruiged by the whole shebang.
As I've posted before.
I don't claim to be 100% iDiet.
Nor am I 100 % Primal.
But at least I eat what I like and I enjoy what I choose to eat, with no ill effect to my wardrobe and wasitline.
And, without having to [i]burn it off[/i] afterwards.
My goal is to control my weight via my diet.
And to control / improve / tune, my fitness to my activity goals through exercise and training.
I do not exercise to lose weight.
IMO, thats a mugs game and doomed to failure.
molgrips, can you tell me a bit more about the changing responses, please?
Well.. when I started, I did a couple of weeks by the book, and I didn't manage to eat enough carbs via beans and veg. I felt ok but by the end of week 2 I lost the ability to ride my bike at all. Trying to ride to work felt like the worst bonk ever, could hardly pedal. Interestingly, after that treat day it took several days for my legs to recover even though I had two days of simple carbs.
Next thing I tried was really gorging on all the legumes and root veg I could find - better, but still struggled to ride hard.
Then I started upping my simple carb intake around exercise - probably around double the recommendations. This worked for a while but I still struggled to do proper sprint workouts or hard riding, and my weight loss also plateaued.
Then I started to crave carbs more and I would eat 2-3 twixes or cakes during the afternoon in addition to my workout carbs - this really helped, I was able to ride much harder and as a consequence of that I lost another 2kg - the low 80s are pretty hard to shift for me so that's good.
Then I stopped dieting for a couple of weeks due to other factors, and got back on.. then it was really hard to not eat the simple carbs. Really hard.. I would iDiet the same as before for a few days then binge and hate myself. Weight fluctuated a few kg above the minimum.
Then I decided to introduce small amounts of extra simple carbs steadily through the day if I am training a lot, basically searching for balance. Lots of simple carbs (more than the original plan) really seem to help recover from a hard workout and build strength. If I stick to the plan it'll take me 3-4 days to recover, versus overnight if I supplement.
I don't eat starch - mealtimes are as per the plan still. The simple carb supplementation is in the form of a sugar in coffee maybe once in the morning or once in the evening, and/or a cake with the morning coffee. I'm aming not to have exhausted legs, but not to have the bloated feeling from a big meal.
I was up around 87kg for a good few weeks recently but now I'm back to about 85kg fairly easily following the above. Weight loss seems to be dependent on the exercise I do now, and I eat JUST enough simple carbs to support that.
But the overwhelming majority are getting it right.
Don't get too evangelistic Solo. We all have different bodies and do different kinds of exercise. Lots of people have had great success with this, but quite a few on here haven't. One size does not fit all, and don't fall into the trap of thinking people are weak or failures if the iDiet doesn't work for them.
[i]Don't get too evangelistic Solo. We all have different bodies and do different kinds of exercise. Lots of people have had great success with this, but quite a few on here haven't. One size does not fit all, and don't fall into the trap of thinking people are weak or failures if the iDiet doesn't work for them[/i]
Molgrips.
I think you know my stance on the [i]We're not all the same[/i] issue.
Yet at random, the iDiet is effective.
Its not like anyone is [i]selected[/i] to receive the info.
iDave unleashed it on the world, for anyone to try.
Subject to adherence to the rules, as dictated, by your body and the insulin response.
What I fear you are over looknig is what [b]you[/b] choose to do [b]for sport[/b].
And here is the junxaposition.
You're equiped with a body which is the result of millions of years of evolution, suited to a certain way of life and living.
Yet you aspire to participate in activities that didn't even exist 1000 years ago.
So, when you're body doesn't bring you home first across the finish line.
Its the fault of your body ?.
So, the response is to [i]Fuel up[/i] and let fly !.
Well, I say iDiet has still worked for you.
iDiet has now got you thinking in terms of your carbs, simple and complex and you now consume those carbs as you deem appropriate to suit your physical activities.
But your body still produces insulin when there is sugar in the blood. Your body still converts that sugar to fat, if you don't use it.
So in this respect, as much as you may not like it.
You are just the same as me.
😯
I'm not that convinced that 'quite a few' haven't had success with it MG if they follow it as set out - which included carbs during and after exercise.
Different when you get to 12% or so, but up to that point it seems to work for the vast majority.
Is there an opposite to diabetes?
Different when you get to 12% or so,
What we need Molly is some testing!
Well, I say iDiet has still worked for you.
I agree. I think it is a great principle.
So in this respect, as much as you may not like it.
You are just the same as me
Er yes, but in many other respects it appears I'm not 🙂 If I use the sugar, then I need the insulin, don't I?
I'm not that convinced that 'quite a few' haven't had success with it MG
Ok I am thinking of thisisnotaspoon and coffeeking in particular, so to be fair only two people out of dozens who're loving it. Interestingly there are a fair few reports of people who aren't following 100% and still get great results.
I'm not trying to undermine the ideas, all I am saying is that IF you have problems with this style of eating then try tweaking it, don't just give up 🙂
Curious as to how much this 12% ish bodyfat figure varies between people. I'm certainly not near that. At least I don't think so.
To the lab!
iDave...
I'm just starting out down this route, being a biffer.
Couldn't see an email in your profile so wonder if you can just give me a very quick guideline as to when you think simple carbs should kick in..what's your definition of 'intense' exercise, like.
For instance, using Coggan & Allen power zones - tempo/SS upwards about the right point to start adding simple carbys? So if doing 2x1hr z2 commutes per day I just eat more iDave stuff? But if up around SS/FTP I need to scoff some Torq stuff?
How long's a piece of string, and that, but just a nod in the right direction would be fab.
Fanks, like.
Mol - I'm not sure about CK, but from what I've read TINAS is possibly the worst person on here for trying to stick to it! I don't honestly think he's tried at all.
I did though, and it was too hard for me to get the calories in.
Twice the distance from the centre to the end. Hard to say without knowing what you're doing. Could be that you don't need any simple carbs. So many variables.
Alright, ta. Tricky one to pinpoint fo' sure. Trial and error here we go.
Coffeeking seemed to make a good go of it as far as I could tell. But he did have lifestyle/work issues.
AndyP - I am not iDave, but I would point out that during the first two week effort I described above I was mostly trying to commute at base pace ie pretty gently, and I still struggled for carbs.
that doesn't make any sense MG unless you were limiting portions?
i'm doing full on threshold interval sessions - on sat after a 2.5 hour easy ride - with no breakfast before
Ta Molgrips. This is the side of things I always struggle to hit. Not enough = training suffers. Too much = pieman.
Usually hitting 5-6 hours of z2/3 rolling, 2x 2x20s @95-110% FTP and one VO2max session (4 on/4 off x5 @120%FTP) per week ...I imagine the 'work' efforts need some sugary stuff rather than munching on some chickpeas...?
that doesn't make any sense MG unless you were limiting portions?
I found there was a natural limit to portions. I can only physically eat so many beans and veg. I got to the point where I was eating huge portions of bean chili and still feeling hungry, but unable to swallow any more beans.
i'm doing full on threshold interval sessions - on sat after a 2.5 hour easy ride - with no breakfast before
Whenever I've tried early morning workouts pre breakfast, I've utterly failed. Probably for more than one reason though. Not a morning person. One other thing I forgot to mention actually - I switched from eggs and sausage to oaty cereal in Germany and it really helped my morning commute.
[i]i'm doing full on threshold interval sessions - on sat after a 2.5 hour easy ride - with no breakfast before [/i]
Oh ! 😯
Training speak.
Anyone care to decode that for me.
I understood the " no breakfast " part.
So does all the low intensity training aimed to make you more reliant on your fat stores actually work? Can people become more adept at using stored fat... or is it all rubbish and we are all the same?
you can become much better at burning fat as fuel to save stored glycogen but that's not the best way to lose body fat.
which most people get confused about
I think it does work, yes. How far we can go in terms of relying on fat I suspect varies. And I guess it also depends on your training goals.
Solo - I did 2.5 hours easy with Mrs iDave then did 5 x 4 mins at a level to make me puke. I'd not had any breakfast.
[i]One other thing I forgot to mention actually - I switched from eggs and sausage to oaty cereal in Germany and it really helped my morning commute[/i]
So, you were powering your commute on sugar, not body fat.
I thought I was aiming to get my body to run most of the time on fat.
Saving sugar for high intensity, short duration activities.
While avoiding gluconeogenesis
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Mol, so what you're telling us is that you cannot eat enough beans to satisfy your hunger so you dive in for some simple carbs. This is what is leading you to remain overweight because you then eat too much of the simple ones ? because it must be impossible to be overweight whilst not eating enough ?
Kev
So is it possible to get the body to burn some excess muscle?
yes, don't eat enough
Time to just go hungry for a few weeks then 🙁
stop lifting weights etc TSY. don't use it and you'll lose it
Mol, so what you're telling us is that you cannot eat enough beans to satisfy your hunger so you dive in for some simple carbs
No, it's nothing to do with hunger, it's to do with training performance.
Hunger has nothing to do with it, that's well under control now. And the amount of simple carbs is strictly controlled. I still have far less than a traditional diet.
And I am now losing weight again.
So, you were powering your commute on sugar, not body fat.
No. Massive oversimplification. Oats is not sugar, for a start; and 20 miles of riding uses up more calories than a bowl of oats.
AND I LOST MORE WEIGHT THAN I DID WHEN WAS EATING THE EGGS AND SAUSAGE. I think you are not really listening to what I am saying...
[i]Solo - I did 2.5 hours easy with Mrs iDave then did 5 x 4 mins at a level to make me puke. I'd not had any breakfast. [/i]
Thanks.
I'm impressed with the 4 mins of Max HR.
Yet alone to repeat five times.
You'd leave me for dust... Maybe.
😉
I can certainly knock out the longer ride at a moderate HR.
First thing in the morning.
When I do, I'm expecting my body is using me lard for fuel.
not max heart rate Solo - that's not possible
just a bloody hard effort for 5 x 4 min, 2 min recovery
Molgrips.
Ok, quiten down. No need to shout.
Remember, this is Ton's thread and the dude did a stone straight off the top.
Thats an impressive start, by anyones standards, I reckon.
😉
You posted the words " oaty cereal ", so I imagined something from a box, which would invariably have added sugar.
But if you're saying you were just pooring oats into a bowl and adding water or milk, then I have misread your post and I hope you can see how that could happen.
🙂
So, how do you explain the change in cycling performance between oats and eggs ?.
just to get away from this silly hijacking and back on the OP's topic
http://www.britishtriathlon.org/events/
😉
So, how do you explain the change in cycling performance between oats and eggs ?.
By banging my head against a brick wall, apparently 🙂
I think that more simple carbs allowed more exercise which allowed the burning of more calories during and also further increased metabolic rate afterwards.
Staying OT... iDave - what % HR would someone expect from Tabata intervals?
[i]not max heart rate Solo - that's not possible
just a bloody hard effort for 5 x 4 min, 2 min recovery
[/i]
Ok, my mistake there.
Thanks for the correction.
I did try that HIIT thing.
I did hurt myself.
Which kinda put me off HIIT.
Anyway, I've no desire for top step glory and I'm in the middle of the mother of all house moves which has resulted in all my bikes being either in storage or unridable at the moment.
So I'm controlling my weight via Diet alone.
The exercise and regaining of fitnes will come in the summer when, hopefully, the move will finally be complete.
BTW.
After looking at that Mov nat site, makes me want to run around climbing stuff, but thats another thread I guess.
Yeti, you're such a number nerd.
[i]I think that more simple carbs[/i]
Thats what I posted and you bit my head off.
😉
You weren't getting simple carbs from your eggs and sausage, so you had oats, which you explain as simple carbs.
Think I'll drop it here.
While remainig confused on that.
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Thanks for trying to exlpain it to me though.
Yeti, you're such a number nerd.
Sort of comes with the job! Plus I've got an HRM now and have been surprised that I don't get my HR as high with Tabata as I do with other things.
No you said I was fuelling my commute on sugar. Which isn't true. The extra simple carbs (but not sugar) helped me work harder, but not by replacing all my fat burning with sugar burning...
Yeti - yeah it takes time to get your HR up. Plus it depends on the activity. Max effort on the bike results in a lower Hr than max Hr running or skiing or something because fewer muscles are involved.