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Ive never wanted kids. Was engaged to a woman 7yrs back and she did. It wasn't the only reason we split, but it was a factor. She is now happily married with a child & I'm happily sat in my garden drinking cocktails with MsD who REALLY doesn't want kids.
Its not for everyone & society does seem to frown on those who choose to be childless, but its your life & noone else's.
Have them now.
Keep doing everything together. It's just that they'll be more of you.
Go and live in a village in the mountains somewhere with them.
Give them the travel bug. They'll leave at twenty and be worldly wise.
At your age that's a lifetime away, but at 45 it isn't.
I'm 50 next year and still race bikes as much as I ever did.
I still travel as much as I ever did.
And expect to for at least another twenty years.
Cyclists keep riding well in to their 80s.
In 2.5 years she went from not wanting kids to wanting some at some point in the next decade. Can you be certain that your view won't change in the coming years?
I guess my wife and I never didn't want kids but we never had an urge to have them, biological or otherwise - it was more a case of not wanting to grow old without them so we eventually stopped using contraception (we'd been together 13 years by then). Best thing ever, just magic awesomeness! No. 2 due in a fortnight (again it was a case of "well we don't want her to be an only child, not OMG need another baby!"
Yesterday we went on a bike ride (she's almost 2.5, was on her balance bike, me on my hardtail) to our local jumps and she scooted around and giggled at me jumping. We have an awful lot of silly fun together - I never realised you could be such close friends with a toddler, going out for lunch together, having in-depth conversations about the difference between a tractor, a 4WD and a forklift, and then playing on the swings. I'm even becoming quite stylish on a bouncy castle... I am clearly just a man-sized child! 😀
Chewkw, by the time I'm old the Phils will have a first world economy. We'll probably be getting looked after by imported Greek birds whilst living in a massive villa in the Philippines.
We have a fantastic three year old daughter, who has almost outgrown her balance bike but zooms around with a big grin. We have another on the way in September.
Life changes, utterly. Every decision is taken with family in mind. Including 'can I go ride my bike' and most especially 'shall I have another beer?'
All this is worth it to me, at 36, in a way that it certainly would not have been at 25. It sound patronising, but 25 really is early to know your mind, and the trite comment about showing the world to someone looks like wisdom from a viewpoint a decade later.
There's a life hacks TED talk on youtube [url= https://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_the_game_that_can_give_you_10_extra_years_of_life?language=en ]here[/url] that you should watch.
Not directly relevant, but the whole bit about deathbed regrets made me think. Hope it clarifies things for you.
I'd say stick with it, give a a couple of years, wait til some of your mates have kids, and see how you feel. Keep thinking about it though, but don't make hasty changes. Two years won't make a big difference to either of you having kids in future, which ever way things go.
Btw, Fathers' Day tomorrow: my treat is to be allowed to get up at 0545 and get a ride in early so I can be home before I the rest of the day's plans begin.
Believe it or not this feels totally worth it from my point of view.
Have kids. No chance on earth you'll rwgret it, they're amazing and give you an unparallelled sense of worth. You become someone's world. It's truly awesome. I'm completely in love with my wee boy and would die protecting him
I didn't really know I wanted a kid up until our daughter was put in my arms. Even then it was more a "what the Hell have we done?" feeling than absolute certainty. I think that's partly because of all the horror stories - you'll have no life, no money, no spare time, etc etc.
Really, that turned out not to be true. The first few months are hard work, but that eases off. We can't afford the yearly snowboarding trip to France. But really she doesn't cost all that much, we still have a decent quality of life, and it's lots more fun having a small person to go on holidays and adventures with.
I love my OH, and would do anything to make her happy - that included having a child when I was still pretty unsure about the whole idea. Haven't regretted it for a second.
Had my first at 27 and my second at 30 and 2 days! Best job ever. It is a hold your nose and jump experience. Scary and maybe not for everyone.
see my post in your other thread
Telling him to have kids now isn't a good idea. He might want them in the future, he might not and it would be a massive mistake to assume that you'll come around to it. It's easy for those of us who are parents to think that it's right for everyone.
Personally I'd say, if she wants kids more than she wants you then get rid of her.
FTR; I felt the same as you and relented, had a boy when I was 36. Just to muddy the waters, I'm very very glad I did. Probably have another too. Whilst I love my boy, and being a dad, it's not for everyone.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago, had been with my wife for 3-4 years and had recently got engaged. When we first got together, neither of us had wanted kids. After a couple of years she started getting broody and talking about her biological clock. I still didn't want kids and I even thought about breaking of the engagement as I didn't want to stop her from being a mother.
But at this point I had had zero contact with babies or toddlers. Some friends had a couple of babies and the more time I spent with them and got comfortable around them the more I warmed to the idea. After getting married we decided to go for it (I was still wasn't 100% sure) and we now have a 4 month old daughter. It is the best thing I have ever done and I'm so glad I changed my mind. Like you I was worried about my ability to enjoy my pastimes and you will lose some freedom and spare time, but I can't wait until she is 6 months and I can go hillwalking with her in a carrier (already booked a scotland trip) and then introducing her to my passions as she ages. I changed my attitude from losing my freedom to gaining a new climbing/riding partner.
Now we have an agreement, I can carry on with local rides/runs as long as they are first or last thing in the day, as long as my wife can do things as well, and I can have 1-2 full days away a month.
I think the biggest factors in changing my mind was spending time around kids and seeing how awesome they be and my age (we were 25 when we met and 31 when we became parents).
Looking back on it all I had a pretty miserable childhood for a variety of reasons into which I shan't go on this or any other forum.
For this reason I never wanted children as I couldn't imagine inflicting a similarly miserable experience on anyone else. In later life (late 40s) my reasoning changed slightly as one of the reasons - money - went away. The lack of desire to reproduce never changed, though.
MrsJulianA (whom I met and married a bit later in life than most, perhaps) went through a great deal of unhappiness (partially unknown to me) as a result of my selfishness / arrogance / ignorance - view it as you will but, to my great good fortune, decided that I was a good bet for the future.
We are now looking forward to celebrating our 17th wedding anniversary with another trip away and another couple of investments. We are incredibly blessed with the way our life together is turning out and things are brilliant.
Don't know how our old age is going to turn out but we'll sort that out as and when.
As to the original post - not wanting children doesn't have to be the end of a relationship. If that were the case I probably wouldn't be here to post this.
If this helps I'm glad but it was cathartic to post...
My ex wife was desperate for kids..I not so....everyone told me that id change my mind etc... when kids come along and so on...you know...all the normal societal conformance bollocks... I have a son..I love him to bits but it cost the marriage anyway and I would have been much better in hindsight if i had been man enough to let my wife go and find someone who would have been a better dad and provided the fluffy 2.4 kids world she wanted and eveyone expected.
Some folks will see it as selfish, but it is far better to be brutally honest than compromise and risk screwing not only your life up, but those of any kids that may come along as well
@tazzy - I think honesty cost me one relationship - and thank God for that in every way!
I have never been less than honest in that respect and I think my marriage is all the better for it.
As I see it, you probably think about this in one of 3 ways:
[list][*]You know that you definitely want kids[/*]
[*]You don't want kids now but things may change in 10 years[/*]
[*]You can never see yourself having kids, ever. [/*]
[/list]
When I was 25, while I was miles away from having kids, I still knew that I wanted them one day. I'm now 35 and have one with another on the way.
I look back at both my single and childless lives sometimes, and while it was good in some respects I much prefer my life now.
If it were me, I'd say that I didn't want kids now but things will likely change as I get older. She then needs to decide if that's enough commitment.
i got married at 24, having been wth my GF for 5 years or so. We both knew we wanted kids, one day, but in no hurry.
We enjoyed life. Pub of an evening, away biking and hiking most weekends. Took 18 months out and cycled around Australia, New Zealand etc. Decided that at about 28 we'd settled down and have kids.
But we couldn't.
Well, not easily.
4 years of trying, going through all sorts of stress with fertility treatment, eventually got there, only to miscarry. Tried again, with success. Jr_bandito #1 is a joy, but my wife had 8 months of a shit pregnancy, followed by 7 years now of a hyperactive bundle of energy. After 2 years, we thought a it was time to try again. Again, we couldn't, another 2 years of treatment and Jr_bandito #2 came along, that was nearly 3 years ago.
We're knackered. I can count the good night's sleeps that I've had over the last 10 years on one hand. We can barely function at the best of times, and as for sex? Ha!
What's more, its amazng the number of people I know who have had fertility treatment of one sort or another.
But my boys are a joy and I woudn't change things for the world.
In short, your missus should probably start trying sooner rather than later, so if you really, really think you never want kids, then hoof it and giver her a chance. But as has been said, in 5 years you may think differentely, and for her sake as much as yours, don't miss out on the chance.
Kids are great.
I don't want any myself.
My life is busy as hell and I don't need to live through my kids.
If the best thing you have done is have kids, then ask what their aim in life is?
O.P. Be happy.
If having kids makes you happier: then go for it!
Walla I can't be arsed reading page two but I suspect it's the same as page 1!
I'm an old git now with three girls and I wasn't keen on kids really but I can honestly say that my life would be pretty empty now at our my three girls.
Don't think life continues as it is without kids. Life changes massively as you get older and without kids it'll be sad .... Easier, but crap.
Time to think about the future.
Forgot to say... All these dog threads on here - kids are even better than dogs (some of the time!).
If it were me, I'd say that I didn't want kids now but things will likely change as I get older. She then needs to decide if that's enough commitment.
Likely? Maybe? Never?
Hard to say...
have a kid you idiot. You don't know life, lack of sleep, hell, shit, love. life, hate, fear, happiness or poverty.
but **** me if its not worth it.
the only reason that you are alive.
Guess what? Sometimes you have to commit without knowing the outcome. It's called gambling. Welcome to life.
Ps kids are the best thing I have done but I wasn't sure at the time.
Whatever you do, if you decide to comitt to kids, you need to committ to sticking with it.
Really interesting reading, thank you all for taking the time to post.
I really appreciate those who have taken the time to read the whole thread and pick up on a few key points such as
-Unfortunately being able to wait and see how my mindset changes over the years is not an option. I need to make a commitment now or let her find a family elsewhere.
-It's not a case of 'is she the right person' for me to be with or have kids with, we have such a good relationship that, without doubt if I did want kids, she would be the one I would want to have them with. No question about that, I bought an engagement ring months ago before she changed her mind to so firmly wanting kids (I think watching her brother have a child/another friend may have firmed her mind...which I totally understand). She knows I have the ring so there is no doubt of current commitment on either side.
At the end of the day it would be me ending the relationship not her, so that I am not stopping her from starting a family.
-If I did commit to kids I would never be able to nor want to split and run, I couldn't and wouldn't do that to her or any children.
It's been surprising and more than a little frightening to read how many people have had problems conceiving or how long it has taken, this shortens my time frame even more. I totally understand and agree that the younger the better, not just for health reasons but also so you are more likely to be fit and healthy to enjoy their childhood.
Muppetwrangler- that's exactly it, I don't think that this is something we can compromise on. If she says ok no kids, she will almost certainly be sad about it forever and it will darken the relationship.
If i say- yes ok kids, there is a chance (% unknown as i can't tell the future!) that I will resent my choice if my mindset doesn't change.
DT78- also a very useful post; we currently have very little money, no jobs or careers, not even a home rented or otherwise! while we travel....the whole thing would need to be built from the ground up-- starting pretty soon to have it done and 2 kids by 35.
I have been fighting having a career in favour of the freedom to travel etc since school, something else I would have to change my mindset on.
Thank you all for your honesty and experiences, please keep them coming if you can.
I am not looking for an answer, because I know that everyone is different and I can't but scratch the surface of the detail in our lives, but it is very, very helpful to see this from other people's perspectives. We are both reading the posts and discussing.
Thank you STW
As a balance to all the 'have kids, you won't regret it' posts I'll write my experience up (short version):
Met a lovely young lady 10 years ago who was (and still is) pretty much perfect. We got on really well with a similar outlook on life etc. Neither of us wanted kids or marriage and were adamant this would never change. Unfortunately her mind changed after we'd been together 3 years. She was definitely getting broody but I still definitely didn't want kids. We talked it over and agreed to give it another few months before making a decision.
We split up as she still wanted kids and I didn't, it felt wrong to stop her doing the natural thing despite her saying she would go without to keep us together. I made a difficult decision to end it for her happiness.
She is now married to a great guy with two lovely kids and is the happiest I've ever known her, a real natural mother. I'm still definitely of the mind not to have kids or get married so it was definitely the right decision.
Do I miss her? Yes, even though I see her fairly regularly. Would I change anything? No. Would I be happy if I had gone down the kids route with her? Judging by my reaction to all my friend's kids and my nephew I would definitely not. I like kids but love the fact I can hand them back to the parents after an hour or so. I would really struggle to make any sacrifices to my life for them, selfish I know but true. It was the right decision for both of us, even if it really hurt us both at the time. I have no regrets.
Good luck with whichever route you decide to take!
milky- thank you for the post.
can i ask why you didn't want kids? how strongly did you know you didn't?
It's almost impossible to imagine having to choose to end things, let alone the thought of potential regret in the future without her.
Did you meet someone else too?
I've known I didn't want kids from an early age, maybe 15 or 16. I didn't have a very good experience through school at the hand of other kids (bullying etc) that really put me off the idea of bringing a mini-me into this world to possibly experience similar things. I know that there's every possibility they won't go through the same experiences but there's no way I can take that risk. Add in me having no paternal instincts to talk about and it would just be unfair on the child knowing my heart would not be in it. Some people are just not meant to be parents, some of them end up becoming one and end up raising damaged kids. I don't want to take the chance.
As for other relationships afterwards, there has been one or two but they have all ended due to the fact that they all wanted kids too. The vast majority of women do want a family so the pool of non-breeders to choose from is limited. I am quite happy to end up on my own if I don't find someone, it's a consequence of the choice I have made and I have been well aware that it could end up being my future. I won't regret it though as the one opportunity so far that I have had of going the family route I knowingly turned down and every time I see the ex I am reminded of how happy and content she (and her family) are so it was the correct decision for her.
The best advice I can give is to have a good, honest and thorough talk with your partner about everything. Only with all the facts can you both come to a decision.
OP in our 20's I wouldnt dream of having kids. At 35 yes.
Stick with this gem and yes agree to two by 35.
After years of crazy fun it is a progression. I know people who dont/didnt and they act 20's still. Good for them but people describe me as a teen trapped inside a 40'yr olds body and Ive got a crazy 5yr old mini me 🙂
I'm kind of reverse to OP: got together with Mrs Ox at 23, I was ready for kids by 25/26, she was all "no, I want to enjoy myself". We had some long discussions about our apparent differing views on the matter, but ultimately she persuaded me with the 'having kids in our 30s' idea and so I decided to stick with her. Also, she let me touch her boobies and stuff. We went on to have a marvellous time. Upping sticks and moving to a different country, lots of travel, lots of fun, lots of spending cash on frivolous things. We got married at 31, and carried on with the fun for a while, but eventually decided to try for a kid at 32. We now have 2.5 year old Oxling and he is an absolute joy from the minute he wakes us up to the minute he goes to bed. We're a bit skinter now, but it's not in the least bit important. We just do what we can afford to do and love every second of it.
Stick with her and see what you feel like at 30. If you're the same then you can say a fond farewell and she's still got plenty of time.
Walla24, there's a lot of good advice on here. I've only got one thing to add - judging by the things you've said in this thread, the careful way you're thinking about it, and the respect you have for others, particularly your partner, I'd say you'd make a great Dad - much better than 90% of the idiots who just stumble into it!
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Your in Chile, travelling the world? If you are going to regret anything, it's putting a downer on what should be one of the best periods of your life.
Just enjoy yourselves for now - as others have said, you still have bags of time, most of my friends didn't start properly settling down until late 20s/early 30s, and Badnewz is an eternal bachelor these days (and no, that is not code for anything!).
Walla, take your time load, take your time. You have ages to decide, 5 years minimum, arguably more. Take your time, enjoy your life and each other and look at where you are in 4 or 5 years times, that is the point to make a final call.
now this is life.. at 25 i was still a kid .. having kids was unthinkable.. but having a hot girlfriend who i enjoyed spending time with very pleasant so do what some blokes would .. just lie.. say sure two by thirty five sounds great.. we ll crack on with it at thirty. then you get 5 more years with hot to trot girlfriend who wants to practice all the time..by thirty you might have changed your mind or she hers..
ps.. kids are the best thing .. no matter what you did before life will change but for the better, it wont include all the things you did BK ( before Kids) but most should survive and as they get older ( mine now 13 and 10) you can do all you did before and more besides.. best job ever been a dad.. even to gurls.
Without wishing or intending to be dismissive towards your dilemma, it sounds, from the detail you have furnished us with, as if your girlfriend needs to do a lot more living in and appreciating the now, rather than living in the future. You, OTOH, appear to be much more and happier in the present moment and have become unsettled by the feeling that you need to be living and experiencing life in her frame of reference.
Which, on that line of thought, probably gives you a little too much of a heads up as to your decision, as and when you choose to make it.
As I've mentioned before, life is precious, valuable, tenuous. Try not to let it disappear by trying to control things that have happened or are yet to happen.
your girlfriend needs to do a lot more living in and appreciating the now, rather than living in the future
Ouch!
It's an interesting point though - which one is being selfish? The OP for not wanting to be tied down yet, or the OH for wanting to plan his future away 😀
I just wanted to comment from the female perspective. I think you need to decide your own perspective rather than take her decision from her. It is perfectly ok to tell her you are not sure just now. You cannot guarantee that you will or won't want kids as it is too early for you. This is a perfectly reasonable position to be in. It is HER decision on whether she wants to wait and see for a while or wants to move on. Don't take away her decision.
MrGinger had no experience of kids when we met (only child) and was unsure he would ever want to have one. He might or he might not, he didn't know. As i did want a child, I then had to decide whether I wanted to be with him even if it meant no kids. I decided that I did. We got married (after 5 years together).
After we got married we decided to try and see what happened. Nothing did, at which point he decided that actually he would very much like a kid! Several years later we got our daughter. She is now 5 and a complete star. He is a fantastic Dad and he can't believe he wasn't sure he would like it. We would have liked two but that hasn't worked out for us, particularly as we were fairly late starting to try, so had little leeway when it didn't work out (you spend your teens being told you will get pregnant if you so much has hold a boy's hand too long, so it is a shock when it doesn't happen when you try!). Based entirely on my own experience I would leave it much past 30 to try if you have a choice but life doesn't work out like that so you just go with the flow.
Please let you girlfriend make her own decision. You are not responsible for her happiness - she is, so don't be patronising and think it is up to you.
I can't offer you an answer but, I have a 3 1/2 year old and 9 month old. I'm 30.
I guess I always knew I'd want children but couldn't have ever given it a time frame.
This morning, after 3 hours sleep (#2 has had an ear infection and raging temperature for 3 days), #1 'missed' the toilet and I was mopping up piss from the floor as it soaked up my pyjama legs. My whole house smells of puke.
I wouldn't change my life for anything.
Why not put the ball in her court? It doesn't sound like she's given you an ultimatum. Just be honest.
FWIW, my wife and sons and I live in S.E. Asia. One was born in The Philippines, one in Thailand. We've been to many amazing places. This Christmas we're taking them to Myanmar for a couple of weeks. Cambodia (again) next Easter. We went on a 1,500km road trip this Easter. Children mean changes, not the end of fun.
Me and Mrs S were planning on having kids. Then we saw what happened to all our friends who'd become parents. It put us both off completely.
And for those who say we are only here to reproduce - Pah! What rot.
We're here to do what make we want. The limits of that are defined by the law and one's ethics.
i let the love of my life go for the very reason the OP talks about, she didnt want kids 'right now' but she wanted to in the future and was aware of the ticking clock (we were both 30ish at the time) i would have done anything for her and that included sacrificing my own happiness for hers.
i told her that adoption was an option but its different for women, there is that biological hunger
didnt see her for a few years but we are good friends again now. she now doesnt want kids any more but the breakup was very hard on both of us so the magic we had is too badly tainted for us to get back together.
i would say that unless you have given serious consideration to having a vasectomy then you know that you at least possibly want kids. tell her that, tell her its a maybe. who knows what the future holds, maybe you will begin to really want kids in a few years, maybe she will change her mind, maybe you two wont be able to have kids. maybe you will look back at this thread with a nipper on your knee and laugh at how little you knew 10 yrs ago. (im constantly amazed at how i was 10 yrs ago, i will be agian 10 yrs from now)
if she is yearning for children with you then you are making her feel happy and safe and comfortable. if you are deliberating so much over the issue then you will make a good father as you obviously care. not everyone does.
makecoldplayhistory- can i ask what you do for a living?
My wife's a primary teacher and I'm an ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher.
I'm studying to become a primary teacher. We're by no means wealthy, but do pretty well ex-pat teacher packages. Investing / saving as well as holidays and living well.
Kids don't need to end your travelling.
I never went abroad as a child. But I just counted on my fingers, and our kids have now been to at least 12 countries outside the UK (which has been a very positive thing for their knowledge, outlook and experience - just the same reasons you are probably travelling for now).
At 25 we were both busy with work, travel and my wife racing mtb XC up to international level - kids were not on the agenda at that time. You will both change in some way - you just don't know what way yet 🙂
If you are going to regret anything, it's putting a downer on what should be one of the best periods of your life.
Very true, i'm trying to hold onto this thought.
Theres only one path for you: http://foreignlegion.info/joining/
Get in whilst your still young and fit. think of the boozing stories you will be able to tell 😀
I havent read all three pages but wanted to pass on my opinion and experiences. I've recently separated from a six year relationship with due to being married for a few reason but one large part of it was the fact I dont want children and my ex very much does. By the sound of your post you're really not too bothered either way whether you do or dont have them but you're not completely opposed. You need to consider whether you're prepared to compromise or whether you're really just not bothered either way. Thats a lot of time away as well so a lot can change between now and then, you will of lived more of your life and experienced all the things you want to and besides life isnt over when you have kids, it just has to change its priorities. For me after six years although I was always prepared to compromise and do anything for him eventually I changed enough that I have never been more certain of anything and I had to walk away so much for him as for me.
25 and you are having concerns of kids...grab a beer and experience life..... that stuff just happens.
40.. going on 30 something with 3 kids and a PhD from the university of life