The issue is finding a 'good' home. If you resort to this I wish you the best of luck.
I do agree that if you find the right home most dogs can readjust pretty quickly.
resorting to rehoming
Is "tough love" preferable to rehoming? I'd say not.
But tough love is the only way he gets to keep his dog, and if done right in the long run the dog will be happy too! Short term pain for long term happiness (for both owner and dog).
Meh, I'm with angeldust on this one. Hora's obviously spoilt the shit out of the dog since it was a puppy. Sleeping on the bed FFS??!! Now that a child has arrived on the scene, he's seeing the error of his ways for not training the thing in the first place.
Just taking the lazy arse easy way out. Just another one of the instant gratification generation is our hora.
I hope Bingo finds someone who [i]truly[/i] loves him this time. 🙁
spare teh rod and spoil the child.
Have I got the gist of this right? Seems to solution to me 🙂
Mrs Hobo had a westie when we were courting 😉 Why is it that westie owners pander to their dogs demands? This flipping dog would sniff every blooming lampost and would drop its bum at the mere hint of me wanting to get on with the walk. Eventually i got comfortable enough with the family to highlight this and suggested a bit of tough love. I did many walks with him coming back looking like the devil. I literally dragged him for a couple of miles. Kicked him up the backside a few times and to be honest bullied him a bit. Eventually he came around thinking it wasnt worth the hastle. I wasnt his favourite but if i walked him he knew it wasnt worth it.
Compare this to my cat (Much harder to train). My cat was a pain in the bum to begin with. Scratching seats, pulling up carpets and generally doing what it liked. It was a struggle but i eventually convinced her that the consequences of doing these things werent worth it. She had a few sessions in the shower and i will admit to clipping her bum a few times. Once that was sorted she is a lovely member of our family. She has actually been an absolute godsend to our young family. Both my children as babies were facinated by the black & white thing sniffing about. A crying baby laid int he middle of the floor would quickly settle whilst the cat walked past and wondered what the noise was all about. My kids pulled lumps out of my cat and she never responded (She knew the consequences). Now my kids are a little older i dread the day Lucy (My cat) passes on because she is irreplaceable.
What am i trying to say?
You have pandered to the dog because its the easy way. You have enjoyed the love and plafullness of the dog whilst it suited you. You were to lazy to train the dog properly when the oppertunity was there. Its now down to you to MTFU and instill a sense of order into your dogs life. I know its not pleasant.
Angeldust - I'm not so sure - best for dog IMO is a new start in life. That's going to be tough on owner for sure, but better for all I think.
'Angeldust - I'm not so sure - best for dog IMO is a new start in life. That's going to be tough on owner for sure, but better for all I think.'
Perhaps, but don't then look for sympathy if other options are available but you are too 'tired' to consider them.
Dogs live in the moment - so would be happy in a loving new home and not ever think of you again.
on the other hand they are a pack animal and you need to retrain to be lower in the pack hierachy - if you were to keep him. start with things like always sleeping in a seperate room, never on the sofa, you eat first, make sure he walks to heal behind you, go out the door first. etc etc.
get cesear milans book - it is excellent.
angeldust.. you sound like a person speaking from personal experience on this subject..
are you..?
When our first little one came along.. we were so 'dog' tired.. waaay beyond all our wildest imaginations.. that retraining an uppity dog in a calm and efficient manner whilst trying to maintain a pleasant environment for the little 'un would have been beyond our capabilities..
there are a million and one different circumstances surrounding a birth that no-one can foresee..
Our dog was a bit more emotionally unbalanced than the one being described in this thread.. and Mrs Yunki experience a few problems for the first 9 months after Yunki Jr was born.. so it was a hard time..
You have to prioritise under these circumstances.. and no sane person would put the dog first..
Our dog had already been rehomed 4 or 5 times before her very happy 8 years with us and we felt that to rehome her again would be unfair.. so I had her put down..
was that wrong of me..? In your experience..?
Yunki, I have owned many dogs. None of my dogs have been 'perfectly' trained but all have been trained sufficiently to behave well enough, be happy, and never give us any problems.
Unfortunately I have known a number of people, unsuitable, unprepared and ill-experienced for dog ownership, gets dogs, then decide to get rid of them (once they have tired of their pet) to unknown fates.
As a dog lover, I hate to see this happen, but I accept it can be the right course of action if it is for the good of the dog and all other options have been exhausted (as long as a good home is found).
In regard to your situation that would depend on if you thought the dog was a danger to your baby (different to the OP's situation) and you had exhausted all other options (also different to the OP's situation). I don't think being new parents and 'tired' is a good enough reason alone to treat a dog in this way.
Not going to bust your balls hora, enough of that's gone on, it's tough now but in a while things will settle and bingo will become a companion to little hora as well as you and mrs hora, and will continue to enrich all your lives, your all struggling at the mo, including bingo, give him a chance, it's early days yet, persevere.
Also worth noting that I have known a number of new parents, who owned dogs before the birth, and have coped with no problems. I am aware this will be dog dependent.
Hora, shame you are going to give up the lovely dog but imo I think you havent done a great job by spoiling him, like sleeping on the bed with the dog!, etc, now the dog will have to go through this heartbreak when you get rid of him, in future it would be best you dont have another dog, just enjoy your baby.
You can save your dog by changing your incorrect ways, be strict and make it sleep in living room or downstairs, it's worth a try and effort, I mean you guys have been together 6 years, you have some history together.
I hope and wish your dog will have a better and happy life with his new owner.
It's a lovely dog after seeing the photo's
dog doesn't know it's place, as others have commented. if you are really too ****ed to sort this out now, stick him in kennels, and come back in a week or two, and mtfu. I love our two dogs to bits, but they're ****ing dogs! they are at the bottom of the pile.
talking about it for 9 months? why weren't you fixing this 8 months ago?
maybe moving him on is the best thing.
just trying to be realistic, not abusive. would hate to be in your position. would hate to loose mine.
Aaaaah! I really feel sorry for hora. He just thought he was doing the right thing with his pup.
We always wanted a dog and now I'm at the point where I could get one I'm working abroad! Shame as I'd take it for him no probs otherwise. I realise I couldn't give it the time it deserves.
Be easy on him though. He knows he can't give it what it needs and that's good. Better that than throw it in the nearet canal?....
Sorry I can't help you out hora - I really would love to but it just isn't practical for us at the moment. I have 3 kids who would love it to bits too....
Perhaps, but don't then look for sympathy if other options are available but you are too 'tired' to consider them.
Eh? As stated above I've rehomed (as in taken in) 2 dogs. What are you on about with the "too tired" chat?
Awwww Bingo and the rest of those doggies look soooo cute 🙂
Hora - I'm confused. You say you're going down the re-training then rehoming route. If you're going to the effort (and expense if someone else does the training) of re-training the dog, why not just re-train and keep him? Have I misunderstood?
It's a hard one but I must say I feel that some perseverance on your part might reap happy dividends (I sound like a fortune cookie in real life too).
Stick with it Hora! Perhaps get a doggy shrink in. Most of the behaviour issues with dogs are caused/encouraged by their owners.
You might think you can just move him on, but you'll find that hard.
I'm back. The lovely wife and the lovely daughter love him already. Just Chompmiester remains to give his consent.
Just shout up if you're up for some dog meetng action (oo-er, I'm getting involved in dogging!) at the weekend and take it from there if you like?
I can promise you this, he'll be spoilt rotten, just like his Lordship. I'm typing this sitting on the floor 'cos he decided he wanted to curl up on the sofa where I [i]was[/i] sittng.
Hope he likes walking in the Peak District.
'Perhaps, but don't then look for sympathy if other options are available but you are too 'tired' to consider them.
Eh? As stated above I've rehomed (as in taken in) 2 dogs. What are you on about with the "too tired" chat?'
dazzlingboy - the 'too tired' thing clearly refers to the OP not you. I suggest you read the whole thread.
Hora - I'm confused. You say you're going down the re-training then rehoming route. If you're going to the effort (and expense if someone else does the training) of re-training the dog, why not just re-train and keep him? Have I misunderstood?
No this is the charity. I expressed concern that if they rehomed there would be a high chance of him being given up again due to his challenging nature. They cameback to me with the option of a retrain/foster first/evaluate then rehome.
angeldust. I have owned a few dogs in my life. I've also seen many many Westies. The vast majority of them are in what I'd class as appalling shape due to their diet. Bingo has never had his claws clipped. Never. He has never suffered a skin condition, isn't afraid of fireworks and has no fear of humans. Zero mistrust.
If you care about a dog you give it a strict diet and alot of exercise first. Then everything else follows. Its not a case of 'oh can't be bothered now'. We have had him since he was 8 weeks old. He has always been a very male dog. He had his mother in a submissive position when we picked him up. Odd we thought at the time but thought nothing more. Over the following months every dog he met had to submit to him (every dog).
At 6months old he attacked a fully grown Boxer. The Boxer obviously asserted itself over him. He then attacked the Boxer again drawing blood.
We had him neutered at this point. This had a wierd effect on him and he started to have a high-pitched squeek whenever he couldnt get his way.
He still wants to fight any dog bigger than himself. This is very tiring for my partner when she walks him and we have tried to train this out him to no avail.
Later on he had a run in and a fight with a Staff (stalemate) in the park.
Hes not a 'fighting' dog though. Another STW'ers dog (Border Terrier) gets on fine with him inside a house together and with other small dogs.
Its his maleness that worries me in the future. He sees my partner as lower in the pack than him and what if he sees the need to assert himself over Zach? Hes never shown any aggression towards him however he is stressed around him.
The crux of the matter is he does whatever I tell him to do when I tell him. He'll recall immediately when hes off the lead. He'll get down when I tell him to and sit or wait.
My partner has struggled since day one with him. Hes just been a handful for her and he knows he can get away with anything if he persists with her. She works part time and spends most of the time with him. Shes struggling to cope and its grinding her down mentally. shes a soft-touch. He knows it. Yes there is training but she always reverts back to herself post-training. She can't talk to him sternly 100% of the time or be disciplined whereas I don't need to.
If he was with me 100% of the time things would be different. I don't see my winning the lottery anytime soon though.
For all his foibles he is a gem of a dog. You are truly a dog lover when you look out for a dogs interests as well as your own.
Like I said, Manchester Dogs home is 4miles from me. He'd be rehomed the sameday he got in there and then returned, then another owner.
Or I could stick an ad out and make an easy £200 on him.
If you've ever met Bingo you'd never forget him. He just loves sitting with his head on his hands staring at me. That I will miss.
A bloke or battleaxe woman westie-lover somewhere will have this enjoyment.
It really does sound like re-homing is the best option as you obviously can't re-train your wife (that wasn't a joke BTW).
As I said before, good luck and hopefully his new owners will be able to show him his rightful place in the pack.
Exactly. Should I replace her with a stern middle-aged busy-body woman? 😆
You know you want to
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Repeating that you COULD get ~£200 simply by selling him really isn't doing you any favours. Treating a dog as a possession rather than a (canine) family member is exactly what I object to. That sort of thing should be so far out of the question for a good owner that it doesn't even bear mentioning. So I hope you are doing it just for dramatic effect (as you do appear to be making the effort to rehome him the right way).
I'm just not convinced that you are doing everything you can to keep your 'beloved' dog. It's something I have seen quite a few times and find very sad. That is all.
Its a counter to the 'your just giving a dog up'. Like its something I've just decided on a whim.
If its something I've decided to do on a whim I'd have dumped him at the dogs home or stuck him in the paper.
Coming to a decision over 3 weeks ago but then deciding to hold onto him as a better rehoming option would be available was a no-brainer for me. The 3 weeks have been torturious knowing bingo was a 'dead man walking'.
As I've said before I do question what peoples understanding of 'a dog lover' is (no its not the same as a chicken lover) 🙄
My friend’s mother had a Westie for about 5 years – he was a foul tempered, yappy little thing. She had to move to a rented property that didn’t allow pets, so he was rehomed with a friend’s family. The dog became a different creature, even-tempered, obedient and quiet. I think it was because both my friend’s mother and her partner worked, so the dog spent long periods alone in the house, and would go bonkers when people were about. When he was rehomed he went to a retired couple who could spend more time with him, and he’s really a lot happier now.
It’s sad, but sometimes some dogs just don’t suit particular environments, and if they or the situation can’t change, they’d be a lot happier rehomed. I hope Bingo finds a home that suits him.
Thank you. He does act as though hes just been released from prison when hes let out 😡
just out of interest, given your reluctance to discipline the dog, what's the long term strategy for your daughter when she hits 2 years old?
I'm asking the above semi-tongue in cheek, as I can appreciate how difficult it might be to be raising your first child and (not) coping with a dog which isn't adjusting well to it's new situation. You might have already done this, but have you considered talking to a dog behaviourist as a route to resolving the issue. They can sometimes give good advice about how to deal with the situation, although in reality, its often more about altering [i]your [/i]practices than the dog's. Learning how to correct the dog's behaviour when you can't use verbal instruction to 'explain' what's required is a valuable lesson to learn if your going to be dealing with a stroppy daughter in the near future!
Hes a son. Zach is (obviously) fascinated with bingo. He only ever 'sings' when hes sat with Bingo. A sort of wierd high pitched note- he grabs bingo and tries 'mouthing' him.
Hes also pulled bingos face hair a few times really hard and all bingo does it quietly whince.
Obviously this all happens when we are present. Never alone together.
wow hora that's a tough decision to make, only you and the missus can sort that out.
Archie would love a play chum I'm sure. Can you post?
Has he had his ba's cut aff? That may calm him down a bit.
Hes a son. Zach
My bad - brain slipped a gear as I read through all the posts. At least you (probably) don't have to worry about him going out in short skirts when he's older.
dazzlingboy - the 'too tired' thing clearly refers to the OP not you
ah - sorry.
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7pm sharp Bingo sits infront of bowl every night. Ready.
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Cheers for the clarification on the training thing.
It seems very obvious that you love this dog to bits and putting myself in your shoes for a moment, it's clear you're feeling a lot of guilt. I know I would in the same position.
Our rescue dog very, very nearly went back to the rehoming centre after the first week, during which he howled incessantly at night, to the point where neither Mrs Removed or I had any sleep at all. It was worse than having a baby - they sleep sometimes and this dog just didn't. The knowledge that he'd been rehomed three times before we got him made us persevere though, and these days, he's a joy to have around. If I had to make a descision like the one you're facing I'd be beside myself!
As others have suggested, isn't it worth trying a local specialist? At least if you try that, and he still needs rehoming you'll have tried every avenue available and the guilt won't linger as long.
Can I with respect, ask everybody to shut the hell up with all of the take him here and give him to them advice?
He'll be dead set with us. The Ladies(tm) are already priming Chompmeister for his new best mate and are out looking for a new dog cushion, blankets and toys for the new addition.
Hora - we'll pick him up from Tatton Park on Saturday morning. Chompie will be taking his weekend constitutional at that time.
Job done.
Monksie [img] /happy-smiley-541.gif[/img]
Sure you wont post to Aberdeen?
We had a very similar experience when our baby came along, the baby was a great sleeper and the dog was keeping us up. She would pace around, twining and getting on windowsills upstairs trying to get out of the window in the night. not eating her food which is really unusual. My wife was on the verge of murdering her.
Mrs JP suggested getting a dog pyscholgist in??? £100 cash. The upshot was that the dog had had some sort of breakdown due to confusion of role in life. ('what a load of old tosh' i thought).
The upshot was that we had to treat her like a dog all of the time. On a short lead at all times even going out in the garden for a wee. Told to sit on a dog bed in the house etc etc.
The result is that she came back to her old self within a couple of weeks and that was three years ago and to be truthful everything is very relaxed. Dog & daughter worship each other.
Must be an awful situation, and with the added responsibilty of your child, lack of sleep etc etc and can see why you think the best option is to re home your dog.
Junior FD is 7 months old and Whinnie (Boxer) is just under 12 years old. At first Whinnie growled, whined and tried to be centre of attention when we are all together. Classic signs that she was trying to create her station in the pack.
From day one myself Mrs FD has reassured Whinnie that she is bottom of the pack (although you feel awful doing it) but she has to know. As Junior FD is getting older, Whinnie's attitude is changing, she now protects him when we go out for walks and allows him to play, occasionally she tries to butt in, but calmly we tell her to go back and lye down.
I'm no expert but its sounds like your dog is still 2nd in the pack in your family ie you, then your dog, then your son, then your wife. If you sort this out then his behaviour will improve.
You say all manner of shouting commands by your wife has failed, maybe its more subtle things that need to change. Do you all eat before your dog? If you all eat as a family let your dog wait until you have all eaten, and then let your wife give him the leftovers. When she is out walking him, as soon as he misbehaves, dont shout at him, just firmly say no, and take him straight home.
As has been said above, alot of it is the behaviour of the owner, not the dog that is wrong, so maybe it might be worth getting some one in. They may pick up on some thing straight away that you didnt even realise was influencing your dogs behaviour.
Funky, hmmmm bingo eats at 7pm sharp. We always eat at circa 7.30pm.
mrshora is amazingly stressed out and its like a telegraph wire down to bingo.
Another factor- Zach was born after a difficult birth with forceps. We are seeing a cranial Osteopath tomorrow regarding this and Zach's issues sleeping following advice we'd received.
I'm wondering if we can turn this around. I need to stop giving bingo the attention he gets from me and I feel post-Zach's bedtime maybe he should be made to sit with mrshora and not me all the time...
I know Junior FD was born, Mrs FD was very honest and said her feelings to Whin had changed over night, and she didnt understand why. Very brave of her but she actually admitted that she didnt love Whin as much although she had brought her up by herself from a pup. I guess it was only her natural maternal instinct to her new baby.
Whilst Junior FD was very young and demanding I had to keep telling Mrs FD to give Whin some attention, as you could see she felt left out. Now they are back to where they were before (nearly).
Did your wife get on with Bingo before, or is just since the birth of your son that they havent bonded as well, maybe it is partly your wife who needs to give Bingo more love and attention, as you say particulary once your son is in bed. This is some thing Whinnie has come to realise.
With the food thing, I was just trying to suggest that if you have snacks and things, make sure you and your wife eat before Bingo, and then maybe give him a bit at the end. That way he feels part of the pack, but knows he is at the bottom of the pack because he gets food last. We do that with Junior FD too. Whinnie will watch for any food that Junior FD drops on the floor, or doesnt fininish. We dont let her eat it until Junior fininshes. That way she knows she is below him.
Does sound like your and bingo have got the male bond, pack thing going on. Which as you say you probably need to brake a little. Wont be easy though... none of it will be. Hopefully though you can keep to keep Bingo and you son will have a great mate to grow up with!
When the doggy shrink came to visit us Mrs JP got very upset as she felt the biggest cause of the problem was her change in attitude.
This was a big factor that was picked up straight away, mrs jp would be nice until she snapped and then the dog would get shouted at, I was middle the road all of the time.
By everyone treating the dog in the same direct not shouty and quite strict way the dog soon settled as she was not getting confused by the instructions.
