For my low-ish end Marantz/Mission separates.
Thanks in advance.
this is what I use mainly<br /><br /> https://www.richersounds.com/qed-classic-42-white.html
I've used that Amazon basics stuff (or an equivalent of), also basic electrical cable, also twin and earth.
I now use Van Damme studio 4mm^2 just because it needed replacing due to moving house and new room setup etc - it wasn't much more expensive and it looks nice.
It all works just the same, and I can't hear any difference. Twin and earth is a complete b*&**&*d to work with and also looks ugly, so I don't recommend that but otherwise don't over-think it.
As above. I use some Gale XL315 (315 strand apparently) for my 'big' speakers, but XL189 on my smaller TV speakers. Both are totally overkill anyway. The stuff Tjagain links to is perfect for your needs. You only need thicker gauge cables if you are going to use very long runs to speakers, 20m or more. And even then, that 42 strand stuff would probably work ok. Thicker gauge cables offer less resistance, but this only comes into play for very long runs really. Very thin cables can lose a bit due to higher resistance, and be a bit weak if there's risk of damage. Decent cable will be more robust. That said; I once wired up some speakers in a workshop, miles of the stuff, with some cheap thin cable, and it all worked fine.
QED Silver
That Amazon stuff is fine, just got some today and wired up my basic system up. Sounds ok and it has marking so you know which wire goes in which channel.
I'm still using the QED silver I bought with my Marantz & Mission kit I got in the 90's
Depends where it is being used.
If it is to be run inside walls, cavity I would go for a low smoke cable, also how long?
That Amazon reel is hard to beat for the price. It looks identical to what I have, and I paid... more, 20 years ago. For long runs I'd want some separation between the two wires but that's probably a measurable rather than audible difference.
As above, I've been told more than once that the absolute best speaker cable you can get is domestic mains cable.
also how long?
"I'd like some speaker cable please."
"How long do you want it?"
"I want to keep it!"
As above, that Amazon reel is good if you want loads of the stuff @57p a meter, equally for shorter/custom legnths, i.e. you only want 3 or 4 meteres or something, Richer sounds has 4 or 5 different options for £1.20 per meter.
Or if you want to tuck it under carpet or something, you can get 'flat' cable.. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fisual-Profile-Flat-Speaker-Cable/dp/B0013ND42O?th=1
QED Silver anniversary can be had for £6.50 a metre, at that price in the sweet spot where it's not worth buying anything cheaper and anything significantly better is a lot more.
Some great suggestions thanks, I knew you lot would see me right.
I’m still using the QED silver I bought with my Marantz & Mission kit I got in the 90’s
I'm still using whatever cable I got when I bought it in the 90s, but the plastic sheathing has gone brittle and is starting to crack all the time.
also how long?
Dunno, about 1.5m each side maybe. Just running from amp to speakers on stands.
Assuming a regular living room install,
at that price in the sweet spot where it’s not worth buying anything cheaper
Nonsense.
Your £6/metre cable might be better than Amazon's 60p/metre. But ten times better? I highly doubt it.
anything significantly better
Doesn't exist?
It's wire. In the analogue arena you're trying to minimise signal degradation. Once you hit "good enough" it's not going to get any better.
Just in case anyone needs closure, I think I'm gonna get the shorter roll (50ft) of Amazon cable.
Then I'll have plenty if I ever get round to setting the other system up.
🙂
I have some QED silver anniversary stuff that I've had almost 20 years and if I give it wipe with a cloth to get the dust off it still looks new.
Always worth getting a bit extra in case of rearranging the room so for 4 metres you'll be paying £26. If you decide to upgrade your speakers down the line you'll be able to re-use them as you'll have to to be dropping serious cash to have a system where the QED Silver Anni is holding it back.
I once read about Quad demoing their latest electrostatics to the audiophile world at some audio show, the journo noticed the speaker cables were bright orange and asked the engineer what they were, he replied that it was cable off a flymo, he said it was just really good thick gauge copper cable and was as good as anything else you could use.
Just in case anyone needs closure
Spoil sport...this thread had 10 page+ & multiple suspensions potential!
simondbarnes
I’m still using the QED silver I bought with my Marantz & Mission kit I got in the 90’s
Exactly this ('cept mine was all Marantz) - it doesn't wear out. 😁
I used to buy it on a big roll from RS. The QED 42 or 79 stuff is fine.
@cha****ng, how old are you? If you're 50 or above, your top end will be going and I'd be very surprised if you can tell the difference between Amazon basics and some decent cable.
I once read about Quad demoing their latest electrostatics to the audiophile world at some audio show, the journo noticed the speaker cables were bright orange and asked the engineer what they were, he replied that it was cable off a flymo, he said it was just really good thick gauge copper cable and was as good as anything else you could use.
yeah, the problem with that is that I've had some Quad amps that have dramatically changed their performance because of speaker cable - not just subtle audiophile 'tweak' level change.
First was a Quad 306, into Rogers LS3/5a speakers. Initially I just wired it up with the standard 79 strand because I am a cable sceptic, but my mate had some thick Cable Talk stuff which I tried and the sound became much more solid and extended.
So I bought some Quad cable that was of similar type (4mm stranded), but cheaper as I am a cable sceptic..., and got the same result.
Then when I added some AB-1 subwoofers, which go inline with the LS3/5a, the sound became muffled, and I ended up using some Nodost Flatline that set it back to normal.
I then had some similar shenanigans with a Quad 707, buy this time with some external crossovers.
So I think it was down to impedance loads seen by the amp.
I know the guy who used to run Spendor and he said that they used to have problems with Quad 405s becoming unstable into certain speaker loads.
So Quad amps aren't perfect and they are affected by speaker cables and that story might be true but it is BS, although with the speakers they used maybe their amps were always OK.
I now use some 2.5mm stranded Van Damme cable as this is fairly cheap (£8.60 p/m now it seems) and seem to always give good results : https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00URNW50S/?th=1
I did once mess around with different types of mains cable (solid, etc, twisted) but it never seemed to even work decently compared to what I had.
I once read about Quad demoing their latest electrostatics to the audiophile world at some audio show, the journo noticed the speaker cables were bright orange and asked the engineer what they were, he replied that it was cable off a flymo, he said it was just really good thick gauge copper cable and was as good as anything else you could use.<br /><br />
I wouldn’t, under any circumstances, argue the toss with the Quad crew! If anyone is going to know what cable works with high-end kit, they will.
Plus the bright orange will show up and help stop people tripping over it! 😁
I wouldn’t, under any circumstances, argue the toss with the Quad crew! If anyone is going to know what cable works with high-end kit, they will.
I don't get that, as Quad gear is mid-range stuff in the hifi sphere of pricing, and people that buy it are generally not the audiophile cable/tube rolling types of people.
Many, many moons ago I read a What HiFi listening board article. They assembled their team of trained ears, and played them the same music using the same kit, just changing the speaker cables. They went from basic cheap unbranded stuff up to to gold-plated O2 free unobtainium £££ a cm stuff. Obviously not saying which was which along the way.
The results were absolutely clear: different wires produced different sound on otherwise the same kit. But they were unable to agree on which was "best"... apparently a sizable number liked the cheapest wires best!
So I promptly stopped worrying to much about it all 🙂
Just some reasonable quality cable, nothing fancy is necessary. Solid core mains is fine if you can handle the lack of user friendliness, and the interface at the terminals is good. As long as runs aren’t that long, it really doesn’t matter. <br /><br />
Go to gearspace, people with systems that cost a fortune, and listen to the discussion on this- snake oil territory. You’ll have more impact by toe-ing in your tweeters by 0.05 mm than this stuff claims. You’ll gain a million times more if you add a ceiling cloud above your speakers first reflection point but that’s not cool and your mrs doesn’t like it😁
If you take off the lid of your prized hifi, look inside it and see what cables are being used to shunt the signal around, see what they look like, it’s often very standard. They’re dealing with an awful lot less signal than the strength of your average speaker feed aren’t they, and they seem to do ok. Well you think they do because you spent a lot of money on it. <br /><br />
Expectation bias is what’s going on in speaker cable juju land I think, possibly hifi in general too .<br /><br />
Anything good for around or under a tenner a meter is all you need, probably less than that in the majority of cases.
I'm with gravedigger
- Van Damme Blue Series Studio Grade 2.5mm
compass-audio-uk on ebay sell it terminated (well). It's the best budget cable I've used.
I've got Quad kit funnily enough, a 99/909 system. Did have a 5.1 set up with PMC monitors and all Quad amps but couldn't justify buying a replacement processor when the Arcam died for the third time. I've got a mate that works in a HiFi shop which sells everything up to high end stuff (giant Classe amps, and who would pay £12,000 for a Chord cd player anyhow?)
I mention it as I had as long as I liked in very relaxed surroundings, including taking stuff home, to audition a variety of interconnects, cable, and amps. Came to the conclusion that fancy interconnects are a complete waste of money, ones that cost thousands sound the same as the red & white ones that come free with a stereo. Harder to tell with speaker cable, fairly subtle but I think I heard differences- or did I. Amps you can definitely hear a big difference. Auditioning can send you slightly mad as you play the same section of music for the 200th time and your mind is playing tricks, and you're getting tired of the whole idea, so what you think you hear is obviously very subjective.
Auditioning can send you slightly mad as you play the same section of music for the 200th time and your mind is playing tricks, and you’re getting tired of the whole idea, so what you think you hear is obviously very subjective.
Yeah, auditioning is very difficult, it's very much like going to 'the perfume shop' and sampling 15 different types of 'Eau De toilet' ... your pallete is frazzled from sensory input after the second or third test sample, never mind the 10th.
Ground Noise Dissipation Technology (US Patent # 9,373,439)
Is that a fancy name for an earth/3 pin mains plug? 😀
You’ll gain a million times more if you add a ceiling cloud above your speakers first reflection point but that’s not cool and your
mrsmum doesn’t like
@csb your mum was actually quite impressed by my cable as it goes. Not sure why. Expectation bias probably…
I’ve had some Quad amps that have dramatically changed their performance because of speaker cable – not just subtle audiophile ‘tweak’ level change.
I would be -astonished- if you could tell the difference reliably in a double-blind test, unless the 79 was wired out of phase.
I had as long as I liked in very relaxed surroundings, including taking stuff home, to audition a variety of interconnects, cable, and amps. Came to the conclusion that fancy interconnects are a complete waste of money, ones that cost thousands sound the same as the red & white ones that come free with a stereo.
I spent an entire day in Richer doing the same thing and came to the opposite conclusion. There was little to no difference between (analogue) interconnect cables, except from the bundled 99p phono cables which were truly dogshit. Throw video into the mix and it's apparent to someone with cataracts.
First was a Quad 306, into Rogers LS3/5a speakers. Initially
There’s your issue, the LS3/5a was designed to a standard for on-site broadcasting vans, not home listening.
LS3/5A review and frequency response graph
That’s true but the Yamaha ns10 was originally designed as a low-mid cost hifi speaker and not the mixing tool they turned out to be…
Having said that, I tried some Ls4/a’s bitd (the rave speaker then) and was pretty underwhelmed.
Have you seen the price of the current Rogers LS3/5a? Crikey.
I’m running Amazon, Van Damme Blue, Van Damme Clear on different setups. All sounds fine, I like the look of the VD blue so use that on main system. Copper Vs Silver and there’s a debate to be had. Next, try opening up your speaker and see what it is wired with. If your speakers are under £500, for some brands more, you will be very disappointed and realise it just doesn’t matter. It’s harder to solder think cable in a small space. Plenty of VD cable runs to be had second hand from DJ’s and sound engineers at the usual places.
The results were absolutely clear: different wires produced different sound on otherwise the same kit. But they were unable to agree on which was “best”… apparently a sizable number liked the cheapest wires best!
I think solid state amps are more susceptible to influence from speaker cable 'topology'. Tube amps (and I thin Quad 303s/maybe 520s) use output transformers and aren't susceptible to speaker cables, I think.
I would be -astonished- if you could tell the difference reliably in a double-blind test, unless the 79 was wired out of phase.
I don't really care - as I would like to be a cable sceptic and was dismayed that cables made a difference, I didn't go and buy some expensive cable expecting it to make a diffference, I expected it to make no difference and when it did spent ages switching back and forth trying to convince myself that there was no difference, or the difference was volumne related, etc.
With the Quad 707 and external crossover difference, the sound was very phasey, which wasn't anything to do with incorrect connections. Switch from the 4mm stranded (Quad branded) cable to something thinner (1.5mm stranded Kef branded to start with, but later 2.5mm Van Damme) and the sound was fine. Later tried with 4mm stranded Van Damme (which is PMC recommended I believe) and it went all phasey again.
I haven't tried to see if my 909 monos and QMPs are affected in the same way as I can't be arsed, the 2.5mm cables work well enough for me.
There’s your issue, the LS3/5a was designed to a standard for on-site broadcasting vans, not home listening.
Yeah, I know all about the history and what it was designed for - near field monitoring in compromised environments, which is typical of most UK living rooms, and also Asian rooms which is one of the reasons why they are so popular out there.
Not sure why you linked to an unlicensed clone version with compromised performance - there's another review recently showing much worse results from an old 15ohm Rogers version.
I use a modern, and licensed, version from Stirling Broadcast (so called V3), with their AB-2 bass extenders, so although the sound signature is basically the same plus bass, the speaker system is significantly better, certainly significantly better than any old 15ohm versions which will have drifted out of spec by now, mostly in the midrange (which makes them even more desirable for the Asian market...).
@somafunk that review/report is for some shite Chinese interpretation of the LS3/5a, which was simply a BBC specification taken by a load of makers. Some made/make amazing speakers to that spec. The BBC project to democratise good sound quality (so their broadcasts would sound good) is a great story.
The review and measurements correlate very well to other versions of the LS3/5A as tested by John Atkinson of Stereophile amongst others, the frequency response is trounced by a £500 set of Kali monitors
