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nickc - I do not not remember who said what.
It's not about individual qualities, whatever people's ideals might be at the beginning of a political career they get sucked into a system that moderates everything. Plus they might be sponsored generously (Watson and Starmer got lots from some pretty shady big business/foreign policy sources) and once they start playing the expenses game that immediately shifts their 'shared interests' from that of the electorate to that of other MPs. Look at the split between the PLP and the constituency parties.
I used to sail with a Tory councillor, nice bloke, funny, bright, but I hated his politics and I've met Labour people who were ferociously self-seeking and too thick to know their own limitations. Whatever their individual qualities, it's the system which predominates, neutralises individuals and determines 'acceptable' outcomes.
when they are a supposedly labour politician? Remember the Bevan quote ” lower than vermin”. How can Murray forget the deaths and despair Tories cause?
Right. So you're back to all Tories and all of their works. I'm out.
From my experience both personally and professionally its hard to see much else. Maybe thats my bias but when you see peoples lives blighted as an obvious and deliberate policy its hard not to hate.
Goldie constructively engaged at Holyrood - maybe thats an example to the opposite but I can't think of much else. Maybe the paternalistic "one nation" tories are not evil just unpleasant
P jay – its not so much in the overtly political sphere – its the unconscious stuff like thinking £50 000+ pa is not a lot of money, like stating people on normal wages can afford fee paying schools. Its the complaining about childcare costs making them poor when to be able to afford that in any way makes them rich. Its the total lack of understanding of how unequal our society is. Its the rage expressed at any measures to make cycling better at the expense of car drivers. Its the unwillingness to ” make the polluters pay”
Blair certainly was right of centre by the end of his time in government
I think I understand.
I think your Left / Right line is just further left than others. It's Social Democracy v Democratic Socialism, they're both left-leaning.
Personally, I don't think Wealth or the even not accepting how lucky are are makes people right wing, we probably wouldn't agree about a lot of social economic measures, but neither of us are right wing.
I am a social democrat. I like governments like the social democratic ones that have prevailed post war across most of northern Europe.
It shows how far right we have moved as a society that things that are the norm across most of europe are considered hard left here. Basic stuff like worker and rental protection. Properly funded healthcare, state control of natural monopolies like energy and water supply, worker representation on company boards, decent levels of pensions and benefits that do not leave people living in poverty. You know - the basic things that make life liveable for those who are less fortunate or able than the rest of us
An example of the sort of thing that leads me to hate tories. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. You can never be neutral
I’m pretty much in agreement with Tj (apart from his love of Sturgeon). Although I’d describe myself as a socialist. I probably fit Binners description about 6th form idealists. So I think mainly on the forum we have people on the left side of the middle ground, but still wedded to the status quo and capitalism, mark et economics etc.
Daveylad perhaps you could entertain us with your criticisms of either Thomas Piketty or the labour theory of value, I'm sure they could do that on Mumsnet.
Just in case anyone missed this magnificent piece of perfect timing:
Question posed:
Why does Singletrackworld attract all these left wing political threads?
Whilst the direct response was being typed we had:
It’s a holding area for commie road cyclists. Its as comical as Mumsnet. How they make money from this lot I really don’t know.
Which walked straight into:
Because, by and large, STW is filled with mostly intelligent people, that’s why
Magnificent by Daveylad, taking one for the team by making himself into the punchline.
If anyone can link that gif where the defender lashes out at a ball that has crossed the line and kicks it into his own face via the post, the floor is yours!