Hiding in holes? Allowing evil to prevail? Getting to us all eventually?
Jesus H Corbett. You're actually completely unhinged, aren't you?
[i]Jesus H Corbett. You're actually completely unhinged, aren't you?[/i]
So 7/7 didn't happen then.
Binners. Give it a rest.
I just find it amazing how disproportionately paranoid delusional people think the threat to us is, compared to the actual obvious reality.
7/7 was one incident. Without being flippant, how many people have died on the British mainland since the 'War on Terror', and the start of our middle eastern crusades? As a result of Jihad? Compared to, say, IRA terrorism in the 70's and 80's, or the amount that die on the roads every week? Its just not significant at all. Its probably the same amount of people who have died in accidents involving being crushed by falling grand piano's or using Acme rocket powered roller skates.
ISIS does not pose a threat to us. Or our 'way of life'. Whatever that is. Its all just scaremongering nonsense from people who fancy a war as a moral crusade (Blair), or security services and government ministers who fancy more powers, and curtailing civil liberties (pretty much all of them then). Its as simple as that, really
[i]7/7 was one incident[/i]
[i]Its just not significant at all.[/i]
Oh
Dear
!
Why is a pick up truck full of jihadists with a mounted high calibre machine gun not a legitimate target in an air campaign intended to take out IS targets? I'm sure they've taken out more than just the one pick up truck. For all we know that truck could have been on its way to the next town to execute its inhabitants.
Anyway, apparently the pick up truck was blown up by our new super weapon - the Brimstone, which apparently has impressed foreign forces so much that we can't sell enough of the.
I think there is more of a symbolic gesture with our involvement in that we are pulling together a force from a wide variety of different nations to give the campaign more credability - its not what kit you've brought to the party, its the fact your at the party.
How do you suppose flattening large parts of Iraq and Syria is going to prevent another 7/7? Serious question. If the people who perpetrated it were angry British Muslims, then surely killing more Muslims abroad is going to stir up more hatred for us not calm it down.
Bombing more of the middle east will not make us safer.
Since the airstrikes started more militias have joined ISIS, even those previously fighting against.
In Syria Al Nusra, also accused of summary executions and torture, are growing in power as much as ISIS weakens.
Exactly RaveyDavey. Its completely counter-productive, and will achieve the exact opposite of the stated aim of 'making us safer'. It'll just galvanise the Jihadis (as lifer points out - thats happened already) and reinforce the idea that this is a western crusade against islam
Theres not an awful lot of logic going on with those who are enjoying their war porn a little bit too much though. Phwooaaaaar A-10's!!! Oh my giddy aunt!! A brimstone missile!!! Just look at the warhead on that?!! 🙄
Solo - Member
It's special, if you can't see that, nothing I post here will allow you to see it.
You of all people, should know that.
What a copout.
Try explaining.
jambalaya - MemberWe tried the sit back and do nothing (post the defeat in the Commons last year) and that hasn't worked out has it ?
You mean when we came within inches of bombing ISIS's opponents for them? Doing nothing seems to have worked out a bit better than that, tbh.
What else can we try... Hey, maybe we can arm the opposition, that worked really well with the Sons of Iraq, right?
It all just suggests, again, that we haven't got a clue what we're doing.
[i]Lifer - Member
What a copout.
Try explaining. [/i]
Perfect! your reply is better at explaining, than anything I could offer. In that ^ one statement, you've admitted that you've missed the point completely, in which case, I can't help you.
Thank you.
😆
[i]RaveyDavey - Member
How do you suppose flattening large parts of Iraq and Syria is going to prevent another 7/7? Serious question.[/i]
And what will giving in, doing nothing and demonstrating to IS that we won't fight them, do. Serious question...
You do recall how Clinton could have killed Bin Laden, but didn't...
I've made my point, IS are murdering people who need and have requested our help to stop this barbarity. I say we help, my reasoning being that if we leave these poeple to die at the hands of IS, when we might have been able to help, then what does that make us.
So, I'm thankful that the decisions such as the one [b]Parliament[/b] had to take recently, to send in the planes and bombs, wasn't taken by some of the folk on this thread.
Solo - Member
Perfect! your reply is better at explaining, than anything I could offer. In that ^ one statement, you've admitted that you've missed the point completely, in which case, I can't help you.
Thank you.
Well that's fantastically convenient for you.
I've made my point, IS are murdering people who need and have requested our help to stop this barbarity. I say we help, my reasoning being that if we leave these poeple to die at the hands of IS, when we might have been able to help, then what does it make us.
What about the 100 odd Sunnis murdered in Baghdad this week by the Shia militias fighting ISIS? The same fighters who have promised to 'cleanse' and 'erase' when they retake ISIS held territory.
The 59 beheaded by the Saudis since the beginning of the year?
The summary executions and torture committed by Al Nusra in Syria who, as I mentioned above, are gaining power as ISIS loses it?
And those killed by Assad?
[i]Well that's fantastically convenient for you.[/i]
Not really, it's a demonstration of how incredibly obtuse you are.
[i]What about[/i]
Let us ask Binners.
[i]Its just not significant at all.[/i]
😉
Crikey, can someone please consider the cost please. I mean look at the cost of A-10 cannon by comparison to the guided missiles no wonder there is no agreement. Using A-10 cannon means there will be "unlimited" ammunition without the necessity of wasting those missiles.
Btw A-10 is solely used by USAF so nothing to do with British public spending so quids in.
😯
edit: As my Texan friend once said ... "Hi-five!" 😛
double post
It all just suggests, again, that we haven't got a clue what we're doing.
+1
[i]It all just suggests, again, that [s]we[/s] you haven't got a clue what [s]we[/s] they're doing.[/i]
FTFY
Solo - MemberIt all just suggests, again, that we you haven't got a clue what we they're doing.
FTFY
Oh yes, very clever, instead of actually engaging the points just "ftfy". Easier than dealing with the fact that the west decided to arm the sons of iraq to fight last week's enemy, and now large numbers of their fighters have joined ISIS. Hey, does that sound familiar to anyone else? I wonder who we can arm today. Assad? Didn't we want to bomb him? Forget, forget, forget...
And what will giving in, doing nothing and demonstrating to IS that we won't fight them, do. Serious question...
@solo are you jesus? Seem to recall he always evaded the question as well. How will bombing Iraq and Syria stop British muslims from becoming radicalised and carrying out attacks on British soil? The reason you are evading the question is because the answer is, that it won't. In fact it puts us at even more risk.
I think where we do agree is that the original invasion of Iraq was a mistake (obvious at the time IMO) and that the operation was poorly managed (once we had gone in we should have mad more troops there and done a better job of planning our successor) but now we are where we are. We have to deal with what's in front of us today.
so in what way is this bombing any better?
i must have missed the parliamentary debate where they discussed the peacefull resolution of the conflict after the bombing and the formation of a stable, free and inclusive government
as far as I can see Cameron is just repeating the mistakes of Blair and a lot of people seem to be defending him?!?
Without doubt this is all very complicated and very messy, however that doesn't mean we do nothing.
@kimbers the US has been pressing for a change of government in Iraq, one which was more inclusive. That took some time and it was only the recent change following pressure that lead to the new government making the formal request for assistance which allowed us to intervene. All these Blair/Cameron references are irrelevant, there would have been an Iraq invasion under Brown and whether it's Cameron, Hague, Boris, Clegg or Milliband would make no difference.
Anyway, apparently the pick up truck was blown up by our new super weapon - the Brimstone, which apparently has impressed foreign forces so much that we can't sell enough of them
so the entire thing is just an advert for our arms industry?
Go hide in your hole, if you wish. Allow this evil to prevail. But remember one thing. They'll get to you, eventually.
solo you are a goldmine of ridiculous statements, do you live in constant fear of decapitation by jihadi?
Solo - Member
Well that's fantastically convenient for you.
Not really, it's a demonstration of how incredibly obtuse you are.What about
Let us ask Binners.
Its just not significant at all.
It's probably very significant to any Sunnis living under ISIS rule at the moment if the bombing campaign helps the Shia militias to take the territory and 'cleanse' and 'erase' the areas.
Really ? imminent threat to our safety, bombing campaign with america in Iraq, no mention of how we will actually 'win' this war and what comes after....
I'd say the Blair/Cameron comparison was quite apt
Sorry, I think it's rather cynical to try to compare this time around with Iraq War 2. We've been invited by the government, like the French were in Mali and like we were in Sierra Leone. Of which both operations were reasonably successful.
Because we bollocksed up Iraq with sanctions and the 2nd Gulf war we have a duty to the people of Iraq to make sure they aren't oppressed by IS.
The truth of the matter is that Assad and Saddam are and were necessary evils to keep the lid on the feudal tribal melting pots that are Syria and Iraq. Our continued involvement and desire to impose western democracy on tribal nations is doomed to fail. No nation has ever succesfully subdued Afghanistan in recent history either and they aren't likely to any time soon. We should pull out regroup and tighten our border controls. Zero tolerance for extremism and move on.
