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I think the queen has plenty of questions to answer too. Are we really expected to believe she didn’t know what he was upto?
Probably not the sort of thing you say to your mother.
How was your trip to Epstein's place darling?
Oh great, he had loads of underage girls there!
I would be surprised if the secret services surrounding that lot weren't on to Maxwell pimping kids and advice would have been shared and, seemingly, ignored. Boies was commenting on how astounded he was was that Maxwell stayed in the US and could have walked but was sufficiently arrogant that these 'know-nothings' ' complaints against a socialite would be dismissed. Hey ho.
"At stake is not just Prince Andrew’s future and Giuffre’s pursuit of justice, but the international reputation of the British royal family".
The non-UK media is reporting on other kinds of royal scandal right now too.
^^ That link not working for me. Takes me to an stw members profile page.lol
Unsealing on Monday has been confirmed for a few weeks.
Interesting Maxwells brother is insisting she's not a suicide risk. Setting a background story in case anything happens, maybe?
^ I would suspect that is clarifying if anything happens, then it is not self induced. Certainly makes it harder to gloss over by US authorities.
They have also made it clear that she isn't going to rat up the bigwigs - which means that a hit inside prison is less likely to happen.
So Andy's secrets are safe with her. Depending on what she is asking for in return.
A wonderful quote by John Sweeney in the Guardian
For the moment, Andrew Windsor denies all, as convincingly as a gimp photographed in a gimp suit denying he’s a gimp.
I recommend Sweeneys podcast, Hunting Gislaine. It makes you realise just how awful she (band they all) are.
It'll be interesting to see how the royal family handle it if the court case is successful, whether they will close ranks and condemn the verdict as unjust and try to paint Andrew in as best a light as possible or deny all knowledge of everything, blame it all on Andrew and freeze him out
If all attempted legal wriggles fail and the court date is confirmed for Sept/Oct, what options are left to andrew?
Appear in court, commit suicide, make an offer to settle out of court without accepting responsibility/liability?
If the latter, accompanying weasel words...to avoid hurt to the queen and damage to the monarchy; if an offer was made, would Giuffre decline in order to force the issue in court?
Wouldn't be surprised if he just didn't turn up? He's incredibly arrogant, plus would we actually extradite him? Honestly wouldn't be surprised (if he was found guilty) if he just disappeared from public life and continued living a life of luxury without any punishment as we refuse to hand him over.
Frank, I reckon if an offer is made to settle out of court then Giuffre would receive advice to accept.
I*think* royals have some immunity from extradition etc though my memory might well be incorrect. It's also a civil case so it might not be relevant anyway?
I suspect an out of court settlement with him living a life of luxury (obviously) but in relative seclusion from public life.
"No-one is above the law."
Yeah, right.
Much as I detest the CIA, I really want them to step up to the plate here.
I suspect an out of court settlement with him living a life of luxury (obviously) but in relative seclusion from public life.
I'm not convinced he has the funds, he'll need to sell another crappy property for millions to one of his friends from the Middle East.
The bank of mum is another option, obviously.
I hope the stress doesn't finish the queen off. We've got an extra bank holiday in June at stake here.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he just didn’t turn up? He’s incredibly arrogant, plus would we actually extradite him?
Not sure that you can be extradited for civil case.
We’ve got an extra bank holiday in June at stake here.
For the self-employed it's an unpaid day so not wanted.
For the self-employed it’s an unpaid day so not wanted.
If you're (actually) self-employed then just work it?
Yep bank holidays are rubbish - all the low paid workers and those in the gig economy generally have to work even harder on a BH or don’t get paid. Bankers have enough holidays already, as do most people who benefit. Many private sector workers just have to work harder the other 4 days to catch up - the work doesn’t just go away
Typical nonsense that sounds like we are being given something when we are not.
Not sure why things like extradition are being mentioned, it's a civil case, he doesn't have to turn up either to defend, reality is that it'll be a pay day more than anything else, Andrew hasn't been charged with anything criminal, it's more down to trafficking, which would fall with those who trafficked her.
I just see this case as a way of embarrassing Andrew to get money, the fact that he is so arrogant has caused this whole debacle, that TV interview and the laughing stock it made him is key to this, i honestly doubt this case will make it any further than out of court settlement just before day 1 of the case.
I'm sure no matter what, he'll be out of the public eye now, he has his fortune, he has the lifestyle, all he has to do is just fade away quietly, but for someone like Andrew, that might be the biggest challenge for the royal family!
I reckon if an offer is made to settle out of court then Giuffre would receive advice to accept.
At this stage it's quite possible that this ship has already sailed, I would imagine that an out of court settlement would have been offered long before Maxwell was tried and convicted.
I just see this case as a way of embarrassing Andrew to get money
No, it's the victims of sexual abuse getting the closest thing to justice they can given the statute of limitations for a criminal case has passed.
If you’re (actually) self-employed then just work it
I'm actually self-employed; verified through HMRC IR35 test and scrupulously honest client assessing the project role I'm doing.
Working on a bank holiday is not an option for me and many others.
Returning to the topic...I doubt andrew has a fortune - he has wealthy 'friends' who may be inclined to help him; as for his lifestyle that's now nothing more than skulking around on his mother's estates.
When the queen dies it's unlikely charles will show him much support.
As for an out of court settlement possibly being offered previously, I would doubt that very much based on his colossal arrogance - dismissive of the 'little people', believing that the case against him wouldn't proceed, that maxwell wouldn't be convicted, that he was safe because he is a son of the queen.
Well hasn't this just turned into a gigantic sh**storm for the royals.
.
What's sad is though is although the victim receives a form of justice, the perpetrator can cut a deal of the kind only the rich are allowed to make. The whole hypocrisy of the double standard is being laid bare by this scandal.
How will the law handle this ? 😕
When they say Maxwell is a suicide risk I think they mean she's at risk of being suicided by some of the many names she has on her list. Although I'm certain that's not what happened to Epstein. No, definitely not.
I bet he's starting to sweat...
How will the law handle this ?
The law is handling this. American civil law.
It's shown that Andrew is a morally reprehensible imbecile, who didn't care or think how his friend was able to arrange for young and obliging women were on hand.
I'd hope this is a chance for a victim to get justice. The deal she supposedly cut with Epstein may reveal if that is her main motive, or if she's wants money - and she's quite entitled to money as compensation of course as part of her justice.
Andrew is finished, whether he wins or loses the case. His reputation is trashed regardless. If he "wins", I can't see a way back into public life. If he loses, he'll effectively be exiled somewhere to a cottage on an estate. The Royals aren't stupid any more
He's lived his life, was the favourite child who got all he wanted, basically being patron for all his hobbies and jet setting stuff, he's made his money in the sidelines, be it sales like his mansion, funding through the royal pot, or estate payments, he's got enough to survive, and support to do what he wants in the UK and abroad for however long.
But, his days have been numbered for a while, the whole scandal about favours from him for money, the lack of charities/people/etc wanting him as a patron or representing them has limited his usefulness, but again, as favourite child he was allowed to just do what he wanted.
Reality is he's always been the way he is, and was allowed to be, he was sold on being 'randy andy', playboy royal, i remember seeing the pic of him with virginia and ghislaine in Private Eye over a decade ago, and they were clear it was not a good thing, but nothing really happened, it was all just rumour and conjecture, with lawyers being fielded whenever required.
i remember seeing the pic of him with virginia and ghislaine in Private Eye over a decade ago, and they were clear it was not a good thing,
Oh, that photo. The photo of the sex abuse victim, standing next to the accused abuser, with a convicted sex trafficker in the background, the photo taken by a convicted paedophile. Nice
The Royals aren’t stupid any more
I disagree, they've never made the transition to a world where anyone with dirt has the means to make it public without dying a gruesom death. Would an intelligent Queen abuse her royal privilege to veto points of law knowing someone would publish sooner or later? No. Would an intelligent heir to the throne marry a woman he had little love for and then make her life misery? No. Would you shag anyone under the age of 18? I wouldn't, it's stupid and has been for a long time. Would you wear a Nazi uniform to a fancy dress party, No. Would you make light of a pandemic? No.
That makes them horrendously out of touch with reality, but not necessarily actually stupid though surely?
From what I read of the released agreement it looks like Andrew has some cover from it...
Details of settlement released so far are extremely broad and
all-encompassing.
I think there's a strong legal argument to be made that as the settlement attempts to excuse anyone and everyone epstein knew from any liability they may have for anything they may have done it is unenforceable.
There may also be questions about the balance of power between the parties to the agreement at the time it was signed and whether Giuffre signed under duress.
There's still enough there to embarrass them, having to admit to being within the scope of this clause is in part committing himself to knowingly being a potential defendant, the way things are going, could that open the door to criminal charges?!
There’s still enough there to embarrass them, having to admit to being within the scope of this clause is in part committing himself to knowingly being a potential defendant, the way things are going, could that open the door to criminal charges?!
The embarrassment is already done. Lots of legal arguments to come but seems the agreement was intended to protect him and others from civil actions.
Criminal is more interesting. Presumably so far they've struggled to get enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to make charges worth trying - plus it might be tricky finding an impartial jury now.
Maxwell was found guilty of trafficking girls for sex, yes? No confidentiality/settlement agreement with Epstein can stop anyone from acknowledging Maxwell’s crime, or identifying anyone connected to it, can it?
The collective conscience is that Andrew is guilty, whatever happens legally is not important, and that Guiffre is quite right to go for every penny she can out of this half-witted, arrogant, sweaty, abusive wastrel. She's been done over as a kid, let her have a nice house and a few dollars for her family in Australia.
Can't we just trade him for that wife of a CIA agent who killed somebody by driving on the wrong side of the road? I know it has been said that their is no extradition in a civil case, but how about just this once?
Just remember that Andrew only has to top 8 people to sit his arse on the throne.
And keep and free Assange and send over the Prince Nonce. Times likes these, sadly, alert you to notions of power and justice.
Must be time for the press to round on Harry and Meghan over something, they need to wheel out Pier Morgan on to TV again!
The collective conscience is that Andrew is guilty, whatever happens legally is not important,
+1
I reckon Charles would quite happily throw him under the bus - any bus - once HM is gone and he’s in charge.