[Closed] Police officers' conversation

If I had heard that, I would have to assume it's sincere, and would have to complain.

Is it really acceptable for these people who purport to be guardians of public peace and civilisation to be endorsing indiscriminate violence against the very few people who have got the balls and the sense and the energy to go out of their way to make it clear that current government policy is unacceptable? Sure, there were a minority intent on violence, but that's a snapshot of society at large. Would you endorse them smashing in the faces of your average punter in the street? Or your own kid who wants to grow up into a society that isn't so apathetic and resigned to a country going down the tubes?

Let the police away with it? Let the belief that they are judge jury and executioner proliferate through the country? I certainly hope not!

If their supervisors think it's worth sacking someone over however (which would surprise me), then it was clearly very much worth reporting, wasn't it.

Well with people like you creating a song and dance over a petty incident, it is certainly going to put pressure on senior officers to consider sacking them. And yes, imo coppers can get sacked for fairly trivial offences these days - the unlucky ones anyway.

I expected that they'd be told off and advised not to do it again, which seems to be a win in my book.

All that fuss, taking their numbers, reporting them, etc, just for that result ? How petty can you get ffs.

Depends on the circumstances. It's more likely than not bravado and willy waving in front of colleagues by inexperienced probationers. But I would probably tell them to wind their necks in. If they said something like that in the hearing of protesters during a protest I'd shout at them very loudly. It's just stupid and unnecessarily provocative.

What seems to get missed are that the dynamics and psychology of a proper public order situation are very hard to get your head round. Often very decent people do extraordinarily stupid things when swept along by the crowd. Witness the idiot that lobbed a fire extinguisher at police from the top of a large building. People lose their cool on both sides of the fence.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the police are perfect by quite a margin. There are some real tools who work for the police and it does seem to have a habit of attracting those types. However, the majority of officers really are decent, honest people who do it for the right reasons. I'm now going to try and make sure I never read anything or comment on anything about the police on this website ever again. Good night all.

All that fuss, taking their numbers, reporting them, etc, just for that result ? How petty can you get ffs.

I don't really think it's petty at all to be honest. I'd suggest the petty stupidity falls on the shoulders of the police in question, who are simply indicative of an undercurrent in a section of the force that dont deserve to be in the position they're in.

I suppose if you think that's unimportant then you might consider it petty. As someone who's in close contact with someone who's suffered from a police person with exactly such a view, only having taken it one step further and acted on it I can tell you that opinion really should be eliminated from the force and most decent police would agree they should not be in the force.

Ernie, again you make rather rash statements which appear to be beyond belief.

I've known coppers at demos/pickets to talk very loud amongst themselves so that it could be heard, with the intention of winding people up. Stuff like how much overtime they've made..... in front of people who have been on strike and struggling to make ends meet.

I've seen worse than that.

You've seen British coppers on TV carry out a sustained unprovoked attack ? When ? Where ? I certainly never have.

I'm now going to try and make sure I never read anything or comment on anything about the police on this website ever again.

Wrong move imo. I reckon STW probably reflects public perceptions of the police fairly well (if not other things) and input by serving coppers is probably constructive and useful - for both parties.

I reckon a copper can learn from a thread like this in the same way that a STWers can learn from contributions made by coppers.

MTFU

Well with people like you creating a song and dance over a petty incident

You're determined to twist what I say in order to try and weaken my point, aren't you? Again, I wasn't suggesting making a "song and dance," I was suggesting reporting unprofessional behaviour.

imo coppers can get sacked for fairly trivial offences these days

They should be more careful, then. "In your opinion"? So, not fact, then? Just so we're clear.

All that fuss, taking their numbers, reporting them, etc, just for that result ? How petty can you get ffs.

So one minute they're going to get sacked, in the next breath I'm being petty? Which is it, make your mind up. Either it's serious or it isn't.

Here's a hypothetical situation for you then. If stuff like this gets reported, they get told off, perhaps wider training needs get highlighted, the result is more professional police. Then the public get a better service, and the police might subsequently think twice about their conduct next time they've got a student in one hand and a big stick in the other.

The police should be setting an example with their conduct. Perhaps if they did, the public would have more respect for them, and their jobs would be easier as a result.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the police are perfect by quite a margin. There are some real tools who work for the police and it does seem to have a habit of attracting those types. However, the majority of officers really are decent, honest people who do it for the right reasons.

I remember being at a riot in Thamesmead when we had house bricks thrown at us by the anti Nazi league(they were pushing walls over), on one side and whatever they could find to throw by the NF.
We were in the middle, and the order over the radio was roughly translated as "Do bugger all and wait till the Cavalry come"(Territorial support group")
Yes, we wanted to defend ourselves against the idiots in society and didn't really care which side they were on.

I assume most folk agree with that tbh

That's pretty much my opinion. I'm not anti-police (I'm not anti-anyone particularly), but I think that sometimes some individuals don't do their reputation any favours.

There are some real tools who work for the police and it does seem to have a habit of attracting those types.

From the (good) copper's mouth.

However, the majority of officers really are decent, honest people who do it for the right reasons.

I don't dispute this in the slightest. It's just the majority of the ones I've met are the tools you mention, sadly.

Nonsense: nice posts. Unlike ambos firemen and quacks like me, cops don't get to meet the good as much as the bad. The defensive team "canteen culture" that can develop is understandable. I've met tons of great police officers and have ridden and skied with some. In their prejudices and faults they are bound to be like us.

I remember being at a riot in Thamesmead

You weren't at a do in Welling, were you? Early 90s, following the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

I remember the police at that one blocking the route the march (previously agreed) was due to take, with no good reason. I remember violence starting following the police using force against people exercising their democratic rights. I remember armoured up coppers brutally attacking a group of women who were staging a sit-down protest (ie not being at all aggressive, threatening or violent).

Course the police have a tough job to do. It's what they've signed up for. Don't help when some of their own numbers take things too far though, does it?

Those coppers in the OP; I would've challenged them personally, asked them why they held such narrow-minded views. People like that shoon't be in the police force.

Interesting that they see 'posh student ****ts' as an easy target; I wonder how they feel about a load of boozed up Scottish football hooligans kicking off in a place like Manchester City Centre, for example...

Er no, I wasn't at Welling. my daughter is probably a 'posh student'.
I have never attacked women, seated or otherwise.

Despite the relatively popular 'rave against the machine' thing, Policeman are just people, doing a fairly shitty job clearing up other people's mess.

Policeman are just people, doing a fairly shitty job clearing up other people's mess.

Trouble is, some of 'em help create the mess in the first place.

I'm not tarring all of them with the same brush, you understand. I mean, just cos some coppers do stuff like murdering innocent electricians, don't mean all coppers are evil murdering scum.

It's interesting that it seems to be socially acceptable to slag off people like those who work in McDonalds, or posties, fat nurses or transport workers etc, but slagging off the police seems to be such a taboo subject.

When Her Maj's Plod are the perfect institution they are held up to be, then maybe then they will be exempt from criticism.

But let's face it, they're a long, long way from that point, aren't they?

😆

I wouldn't want to be a policeman, the temptation to give someone a shoeing would be too much

Yeah, but Brakes; [i]could[/i] you actually give someone a shoeing, or is it just an internet fantasy of yours?

i suspect dressed in riot gear armed with a stcik and shield and backed up by 4000 mates most of us could easily take out a middle class student.

thanksfully me propensity to violece is non existent on the internet or the real world.

Fred - did you follow any of the Stockwell enquiry? You make it sound like the firearms officers set out that morning with the express intention of shooting an entirely innocent member of the public in the head numerous times. Get a grip.

No the police never beat anyone up.
[url] http://www.****/news/article-1090655/Arrest--assault-Judges-disgust-soldier-held-hit-times-POLICE.html [/url]
Same as every other walk of life and you'll get dickheads in the police too.

Fred - did you follow any of the Stockwell enquiry? You make it sound like the firearms officers set out that morning with the express intention of shooting an entirely innocent member of the public in the head numerous times. Get a grip.

Yeah man they just wanna get some "trigger time". Despite this being a line in Apocalypse Now, there is actually documented evidence that soldiers trained to kill, have a desire to kill, and some will just kill indiscriminately if they think they can get away with it, others will kill indiscriminately whether they can get away with it or not.
I have a feeling this applies to the cops, in fact I don't see how you could convince anyone otherwise.

I am a known promoter of the phrase "Anecdotes don't make science", but I know an ex firearms squad cop and he has often discussed how gutted he is that he never got to fire his weapon on "live" target. I hope an pray he is the only cop in Britain who feels like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were many others who felt like him.

What does this tell us about training men to shoot other men if they feel the need arises?

No the police never beat anyone up.
http://www.****/news/article-1090655/Arrest--assault-Judges-disgust-soldier-held-hit-times-POLICE.html
Same as every other walk of life and you'll get dickheads in the police too.

This is an extreme example of what I see as abuse of police powers, they fancy exerting their power over you, give you a kicking and try to make out it was you. Tossers they are in that video glad they got caught.

Nonsense....For what its worth... Don't let them get to you. My long term riding buddy is a policeman(brilliant,nice,caring man) and I wouldn't do your job if it came with a new moutain bike every month. You get good and bad in all walks of life, just like forums really.

Yes DS every protest is like this but you forget the minority of folk [s]protesting [/s]who are just there for a riot.

Unnecessary word there.

Suppose the problem lies in the 'them and us' mentality.

This situation only serves to benefit the noisy minorities. The people with greivances (in both parties).

To some members of the public they only see the uniform, not a person inside and to some police officers they 'are' the uniform. They change into people who brand everyone as sub-standard when the shift starts. Like that military type who says "a civvie couldn't do this".

But thankfully (hopefully) as I said these should just be the 'noisy' minority, after all if the police force was mainly populated by such people there'd be anarchy.

There are bullies in every profession and the badge, cuffs and uniform are bully-magnets so it's to be expected in a way.

How boring is this thread...

Just watch 'The Battle in Seattle'...paints the picture well.

To be honest, by the time the fees rise most of the protesting students would have graduated anyway!

They should have at least handed the baton to some 'Big School' pupils and let them have a bit of a ruck!

Any police officer with their head screwed on correctly will not be wanting to get into any unnescessary fighting in this day and age. If they win the fight then they run a more substantial risk of being prosecuted than anyone else because they will be investigated with far more vigour and resource than will an ordinary assault suspect. If they loose the fight then the support from their organisation ain't what it used to be.
Nonsense knows that....................the arses you heard seem to have failed to grasp that yet.

anyone read 'Out of the Blue' by Dave Watson ?

An enlightening POV from a cycling ex-copper also a good book 😉

Now, there is actually documented evidence that soldiers trained to kill, have a desire to kill, and some will just kill indiscriminately if they think they can get away with it, others will kill indiscriminately whether they can get away with it or not.

Do you have a link to this documentary evidence, because this seems to be the opposite of what I've read previously?

.....seems to be the opposite of what I've read previously?

The opposite ? Do you mean that soldiers trained to kill have less of a desire to kill ?

I'm even more interested in your link.

I will see if I can find the report for you Ernie, but basically it was to do with the repetitive training that has been used by the armed forces to increase the effectiveness of troops on the battlefield.

This repetitive traning came from a study done after the 2nd World War that showed most soldiers weren't shooting to kill on the battlefield. By making training repetitive, so it became a drill rather than an action requiring thought, it was found that the efficiency of soldiers on the battlefield improved, in that a much larger percentage were now shooting to kill.

Unfortunately, it has had a knock on effect, illustrated by the increasing number of mental problems experienced by troops who have served in an operational theatre.

Like I said, I'll try and dig out the links for you. In the meantime, maybe you could reciprocate with a link to your documentary evidence.

In the meantime, maybe you could reciprocate with a link to your In the meantime, maybe you could reciprocate with a link to your documentary evidence.

I didn't make any claim about "documentary evidence".......toys19 did. Although I am aware of such claims. I've never heard anyone make your claim before though, ie, "soldiers trained to kill have less of a desire to kill". It sounds like crap training to me.