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In the case of roadworks there is only one checkout - you're suggesting that if there is space to walk past the queue for a single checkout it's quite legitimate to walk to the front of the existing queue to use that checkout.
Bad analogy perhaps. But hypothetically if there were two queues to one checkout - odd situation, but I've seen ticket entries to concerts run like this when they're trying to turn a crowd into a queue - then why wouldn't you choose the shorter line?
Queuing for a rollercoaster might be a better example. Here you've got a queuing system wide enough to accommodate people two- or three-abreast. Do people stand next to their partners, or does everyone line up one behind the other?
What's so magical about the left lane that everyone has to be crammed into it a mile away from a hazard? Christ, the rest of the time, you've more chance of growing a second willy than getting some people to use the first lane. What are we gaining here? It's brainless.
You end up with a tailback that's twice as long as it needs to be, moving in stop-start bursts. You've got people suddenly cutting in lane into too-small gaps, braking erratically because they've just seen a gap, braking sharply to avoid someone else who's cutting in, peevishly trying to prevent other people from making correct use of the available road, intentionally blocking those who do want to pull in ("should've done it earlier, ner"), or going the other way and stopping to let a huge stream of traffic in, and why? For what? [i]Because everyone else is doing it. [/i]Genius.
Alternatively, we keep two lanes of traffic up to the point of merging. A set point so there's no diving madly between lanes. One from the left, one from the right, nice and safe and sensible, keeps traffic flowing and keeps tempers down because everyone knows what everyone else is doing.
I really, really don't understand why you - or anyone - would think that a queue of traffic has to squash into one lane at the earliest opportunity, or why anyone would think that's in any way a desirable system. Queues don't have to be single file. It's nonsensical, and it's downright dangerous.
What's so magical about the left lane that everyone has to be crammed into it a mile away from a hazard?
It's because most drivers these days seem to be incapable of judging the road conditions ahead for themselves. To be honest though if people insist on using the left lane it's absolutely great for me. I just shoot straight up the right hand lane past all of the ditherers and right to the front of the queue. Fantastic and perfectly legal too!
Occasionally you get some self righteous f***er who thinks that it's their god given duty to block the right hand lane and force everyone else to be delayed.
Is there any solution that works to get these idiots to move over sharpish apart from a combined dose of the horn and the finger?
I really, really don't understand why you - or anyone - would think that a queue of traffic has to squash into one lane at the earliest opportunity, or why anyone would think that's in any way a desirable system.
Good job I don't then. I was just pointing out that actually there's nothing wrong with vans blocking the right hand lane (and moving at the same speed as the left hand lane) which results in exactly the situation you're after. Or it would, except the drivers like you who you seem to think are helping by overtaking using the right hand lane then shove into the left lane early rather than waiting for the obstruction to merge.
As an aside I pointed out that if everybody joins the back of the queue when they get to it in a single line, there is no disadvantage to "a tailback that's twice as long as it needs to be" (provided it's not so long it disrupts a junction).
Occasionally you get some [s]self righteous f***er[/s] sensible person who thinks that it's their god given duty to block the right hand lane and [s]force[/s] prevent everyone else [s]to be[/s] from being delayed by the drivers who consider themselves more important.
FTFY
So the fact that people who do Traffic Management for a living say otherwise, that doesn't change your opinion ?
Did you look at the link I posted ?
So the fact that people who do Traffic Management for a living say otherwise, that doesn't change your opinion ?Did you look at the link I posted ?
Those people think the correct thing to do is overtake the left hand queue in the right hand lane, rather than stay in the right hand lane at the same speed as the left hand lane is moving? I didn't see anything suggesting that in your link.
Do you really not understand the hypocrisy of complaining about the very people who are making the traffic flow in the way you're suggesting?
Why is the right lane totally empty ?
Because everyone in the left lane is driving badly.
I will continue using whichever lane is free, until there is an obstruction.
(and someone blocking the right lane, just because there are roadworks three miles ahead, is not a legitimate obstruction..it's just another bad driver who mistakenly thinks he knows the right way to drive in those circumstances)
Because everyone in the left lane is driving badly.
Really? So if you come up to the back of the queue in the left hand lane, if you don't disobey the HC you're driving badly? In fact, can I just check that if you're in the left hand lane when you do that you'll disobey the HC and switch lanes? Remind me again who is the bad driver.
I will continue using whichever lane is free, until there is an obstruction.
Like a van? Glad to hear that doesn't bother you.
Like a van? Glad to hear that doesn't bother you.
You missed a bit At the end 🙄
Ah - your edit. Apologies for not waiting 15 minutes to make sure you didn't do that.
Maybe you should try again to explain why somebody making the traffic flow in the way the Traffic Management people approve of is in the wrong.
Aracer - the longer queue cause issues which is why all the driving guidance say to queue in both lanes then merge in turn.
But TJ - all those people complaining about the van blocking the right hand lane don't want to queue in both lanes, they want to use the right lane to overtake the left one. If they wanted to queue in both lanes they should be perfectly happy, as that's what the van is causing.
No aracer - the van is preventing people from queueing in the outside lane and all the people cutting in to the inside lane causing the queue are also in the wrong. You are supposed to merge in turn at the obstruction.
the van is preventing people from queueing in the outside lane
I'm confused - how is it managing that? Does it have supernatural powers which force all the cars behind it in the right lane to pull into the left lane?
No - he is blocking it up - totally illegal to do so. The van blocking it stops people going to the from to make the queue in the approved manner.
The whole point of queue both lanes, merge in turn is tomake thequeue shorter and he is preventing that.
Stop being obtuse
If the van is in the right-hand lane and only moving as fast as the left-hand lane then he is in breach of the Highway Code as that lane is only to be used for overtaking and it should therefore pull in to let other, faster travelling vehicles, past.
Of course, once reaching the obstruction, the procedure is to merge in turn until the obstruction is passed.
The van blocking it stops people going to the from to make the queue in the approved manner.
Except that doesn't actually happen if the van isn't there does it? WIth the van there, the traffic queues exactly as suggested behind it, using both lanes. I'm not the one being obtuse.
🙄
No - as there is a gap in front of the van thus the queue is longer than it needs to be.
that lane is only to be used for overtaking and it should therefore pull in to let other, faster travelling vehicles, past.
You seem to have missed the point that it's queueing, and if the traffic is moving as we'd all like, then nobody in the right hand lane is overtaking, so according to your interpretation of the HC, they should all pull in to the left lane...
~Aracer - read and learn
They aren't queuing until they reach the obstruction and can move no further. A bit like what happens at traffic lights, you know?
Ah - your edit. Apologies for not waiting 15 minutes to make sure you didn't do that
.I edited it straight away As soon as I posted, maybe 30 seconds different.
If it takes you that long to write a short reply That's not my fault.
And the van driver is wrong to be in that lane, as he is blocking the flow of traffic for no reason.
as there is a gap in front of the van thus the queue is longer than it needs to be.
Until such point as the van reaches the obstruction, at which point it has contributed to the forming of the 2 lane queue we're all after (unlik the right lane overtakers). Or it would have done, were it not that right lane overtakers have by that point messed it all up and pulled in early.
except the drivers like you who you seem to think are helping by overtaking using the right hand lane then shove into the left lane early rather than waiting for the obstruction to merge.
Since when did I say I shove in?
if everybody joins the back of the queue when they get to it in a single line,
When do they do that? There's no single point where it becomes a 'single line', it thins out. Other than where the lanes merge anyway, which is the point I'm getting at. If people merge at a single point, one-two-one-two, it's fair on everyone, manageable, and no-one's "queue jumping". Without a single point of merger, what you describe simply isn't possible. By the time many people will have noticed that the left lane has slowed they're already past the tail of the leftmost half of the queue.
Those people think the correct thing to do is overtake the left hand queue in the right hand lane, rather than stay in the right hand lane at the same speed as the left hand lane is moving? I didn't see anything suggesting that in your link.
No. No no no. It's not "overtaking" it's "forming two lanes of traffic." Are you being deliberately obtuse? If everyone did that rather than diving left like sheep, the second lane *would* be moving at the same speed as the first, it'd be as full of traffic as the first.
all those people complaining about the van blocking the right hand lane don't want to queue in both lanes, they want to use the right lane to overtake the left one
The van is preventing a queue from forming at the merger point and preventing people from merging safely at the point of the obstruction in the prescribed manner.
.I edited it straight away As soon as I posted, maybe 30 seconds different.If it takes you that long to write a short reply That's not my fault.
Ah - you seem to have misunderstood the way this forum works. I read your original and started writing my reply. I didn't bother refreshing before I posted it, so missed your later words of wisdom. If you're going to edit your post, you can't complain about people replying to your original, however quick you might be.
EDIT: Sorry, ignore that, now I'm being obtuse.
The van is ... preventing people from merging safely at the point of the obstruction in the prescribed manner.
Whoah - more supernatural powers.
Edited due to edit above!
Aracer - I suggest you read this and learn how to drive properly inthese situations thus reducing congestion.
Whoah - more supernatural powers.
If it were supernatural, we could drive through the ****er and there wouldn't be an issue.
So you (and everybody else on here apart from me) always refresh immediately before posting, just in case what you're replying to has been edited?
Retracted whilst you were editing because I figured I was breaking Wheaton's Law. I appreciate the irony there, but that wasn't intentional.
In answer to the question though, you could wait a moment before replying perhaps. I often edit posts post-post for grammar / spelling checks and such.
TJ - I posted that a page back.
You have since posted it twice.
He has obviously read it, and still doesn't understand that he's talking knackers.
I've given up.
Maybe you should too.
Ah - you seem to have misunderstood the way this forum works.
Maybe I have.
But I understand more than you seem to about how to drive.
I know which is more useful.
Personally I don't think either nealglover or TJ has actually read that leaflet properly. nealglover is correct in recognising that I have.
Aracer - I suggest you read this and learn how to drive properly inthese situations thus reducing congestion.[url= http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Images/Merge%20in%20Turn%20leaflet_tcm2-75821.pdf ]http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Images/Merge%20in%20Turn%20leaflet_tcm2-75821.pdf[/url]
I don't live in Doncaster. What should I do?
EDIT: I'm driving on Spanish plates so I can do what the F*** I want in these situations. 😈
Sorry , did I miss the bit where they ask for Van drivers to block the right hand lane ??
🙄
But I understand more than you seem to about how to drive.
I presume you consider that your driving is above average (like most people do)?
I presume you consider that your driving is above average (like most people do)?
No. Not really. But I know I'm right about this.
Although I have driven between 50k and 60k miles a year for the last 15 years or so without incident.
Not a single scratch.
So my insurance company maybe think I'm better than average.
Aracer - Ok -Highway code then?
Road works
288
where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn
134
You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. [b]Merging in turn is recommended[/b] but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
That's also been posted already TJ.
He didn't seem to think they were relevant either.
I presume you consider that your driving is above average (like most people do)?
To be fair though, that's not exactly a bold claim given the shocking standard of your average driver. If I thought I was an average driver, I'd take the bus.
Nothing to add ass TJ et al have in covered. But having read most of this thread I wish to say in the strongest possible way...
Aracer, you scare me... positivly terrify me. You sound like exactly the sort of driver that causes chaos on the roads and pisses everyone off. You drive around with a complete missunderstanding of the HC and worse, you feel it's your right to obstruct other road users just because they don't fit your mistaken idea of how a traffic should work. My god man, I bet you drive along at 70 in the outside lane (with two clear lanes inside) just to prevent others from 'speeding'. Please sell your car as soon as possible and leave the road to people who understand it.
And for gods sake, what is wrong with overtaking a queue anyway if it's safe and legal to do so.
You aren't 'overtaking' them in a queue, you're 'filtering'.
i.e your lane is going faster than their lane, regardless of which lane you're in.
you feel it's your right to obstruct other road users just because they don't fit your mistaken idea of how a traffic should work
Interesting what happened on the way to work last month. On the dual carrigeway into town there was road works reducing to one lane. As normal a long queue of traffic sitting in the left lane completely gumming up the side turnings. Clear right hand lane almost up to the point of the roadworks.
Yet there was some utter c**k who though that everyone ought to queue in the left as they had done and 'none shall pass'. I was in the left hand lane a couple of cars back from this guy since I was about tho turn left before the roadworks. As cars approached from the rear in the right hand lane, the chap started pulling half out into the right hand lane to try and scare them into not passing.
Unfortunately he must have underestimated the speed of an approaching white van because he pulled out, the van tried to swerve round him but couldn't resulting in the van taking the side out of the old chap's car. Luckily no one was hurt but it just goes to show how utterly moronic this sort of behaviour is.
Simple solution is for everyone to merge in turn, but if that's too complicated a manouvre for some then please feel free to sit and queue on the left, leaving the road clear on the right for those more confident drivers who actually want to make progress. That way almost everyone is happy (unless you are trying to pull out of a side road of course).