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Even if you find it distasteful he has still done nothing legally wrong.
Morally questionable (especially as he is someone "in authority") but as far as we know, nothing illegal. He'll be gone soon.
I'm still waiting to find out what ideas Lisa Nandy learnt from the Spanish treatment of Catalonians that she thinks should be applied to folk in the Scottish independence movement.
Yes Binners, I read that Andrew Rawnslay piece in the Guardian too. I mentioned earlier in this thread how painfull it is to watch the candidates campaign with their hands tied behind their back. It leaves us guessing as to what Starmer or Nandy are really thinking. We just have to trust that they're chomping at the bit to dismantle the 'legacy' of the last five years and realise the party machine is not fit for purpose and needs a complete overhaul.
The Rawnslay article also suggests Labour needs to be bolder and more imaginative. There's an interesting thread about empire 2.0 and the enlightenment on here, where thisisnnotaspoon talks about black swan events, where unforseen events have the greatest influence on proceedings. (Coronovirus anyone?) There's a risk that caution can lead to complacency for Labour. If we've learned anything from the last few years it is to expect the unexpected.
Things could yet go tits up for the Tories and Labour will most likely be caught with their pants down again. The idea that Labour spends 5 years reforming then hoping to be in with a chance in 2030 sounds like a plan. That's the easy bit. Labour needs to become an agile entity that can react to current environments and be able to react to unforseen events (gifts). Currently it spends too much time gazing into the future to notice what's happening around it.
Oh, my other half has just read that the Tories are recruiting new staff and the quality Domonic Cummins is most looking for is unpredictability.
It leaves us guessing as to what Starmer or Nandy are really thinking. We just have to trust that they’re chomping at the bit to dismantle the ‘legacy’ of the last five years
I think we can safely say the candidates who aren't members of the party within a party that is the "Socialist Campaign Group" are ok, and the ones that aren't are not. So Starmer and Nandy are Ok, IMHO.
I’m still waiting
Well, I laid it out plain for you ages ago. She was talking about how the socialists were winning back support at the voting booth from nationalists in Catalonia. Her comments were not about how the Spanish government acted as regards the referendum. They were never words in support of the police action.
She was unwise (I’d argue politically very naive) to go anywhere near the Catalan question… it was always going to be misrepresented.
FWIW I reckon this is the second most unanswered question on any politics thread on here after ‘so what do you see as the benefits of Brexit?’
How do you soft-soap exposing stupidity and petty nastiness?
Because everyone who voted to leave did so because they're nasty people?
Every time I vote Labour, I do so in the knowledge that they will make me financially worse off than the Tories. Maybe you think that makes me stupid.
I see the Corbynites have learnt absolutely nothing from their previous disasters and are in the process of repeating their attempted drive by shooting of Tom Watson, this time on Kier Starmer
Luckily, their usual epic levels of ham-fisted incompetence seem to be proving just as successful as with Tom Watson, and its having the opposite effect of actually galvanising his support.
The people I know that voted leave did so for reasons of community, belonging, patriotism, ideology. These are personal reasons, not for reasons of economics, money or our place in the EU. There are a lot of people on the breadline or who never recovered after the pits closed, they see the world differenlty to a lot of others who voted remain, especially those in London.
Should anyone be interested, Verso have published a free download of:
Anti-Semitism and the Labour Party Edited by Jamie Stern-Weiner (an Israeli born Phd candidate at Oxford)
You need the (free) app Calibre to read it on Windows.
The candidates are busy honestly facing up to the reason for the labour party's whopping defeat, by addressing the essential issues facing the nation at this critical time in our history, and making themselves relevant in offering solutions to those pressing priorities
Labour leadership: Long-Bailey backs call to expel 'transphobic' members
Labour leadership contender Rebecca Long-Bailey has signed up to a pledge to expel party members who have expressed "transphobic" views.
It is part of a 12-point plan by the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights
Finger on the pulse of the country, as ever there 'Becky'. Finger on the pulse....
Well it is the right thing to do, as are many of the things Labour try to do. The key is to do it quietly and only shout about the things that the majority of people actually care about.
And keep the number down to 2 or 3 otherwise you will loose their attention.
True. It does also go a long way to dispel the myth that the Corbynite left is just a gang of middle-class, placard-waving, virtue-signalling sixth formers and is, in fact, a serious political party with an agenda to address the real issues facing the country, particularly in the 'labour heartlands'
I know it's a very pressing issue in Blackburn and Burnley at the moment. The local media is hotly debating labours groundbreaking 12 point plan for trans rights, and in the pubs people are talking of little else.
Constituents there are sure to be bombarding their newly elected Tory MPs to pressure Boris into matching labours pledges in this important area, I'm sure
I know it’s a very pressing issue in Blackburn and Burnley at the moment
Of course because what the labour party really needs is a policy on how to make northern towns more white and more christian.
As long as they want to wear dresses and maybe want to have babies...
Does this mark the point where they now really have gone full PFJ? 😂
Of course because what the labour party really needs is a policy on how to make northern towns more white and more christian.
Erm, have you been to any northern milltowns?
Finger on the pulse of the country, as ever there ‘Becky’. Finger on the pulse….
There you were, castigating the party for a lack of action on antisemitism, now you're castigating them for taking action on a different form of discrimination, on the basis that not enough people care about it. I guess we now have confirmation that your supposed concern for Jews was actually just a convenient stick with which to beat the Labour leadership.
Erm, have you been to any northern milltowns?
I live in Todmorden, and have a very good knowledge of the pressing issues in both Burnley and Blackburn. If the labour party base their policies on those they're f*****. We live in the 21st century, not the 1950s.
Morning Comrade! Hows the revolution going? Still on course for power*
You don't see the irony of the very person who was in the inner sanctum that pretended there was no antisemitism issue within the party (move along now... nothing to see here) now banging on about trans rights?
And, at a guestimate, what percentage of the population do you think are presently thanking the lord that the Labour party are finally getting to grips with this pressing issue?
* in 2045?
You don’t see the irony of the very person who was in the inner sanctum that pretended there was no antisemitism issue within the party (move along now… nothing to see here) now banging on about trans rights?
I think you mean hypocrisy. The irony there being that's exactly what you're doing. Do you not realise how transparent you are?
Anyway, well done for living down to Dazh's caricature of northern mill town dwellers.
Pfft! If you're going to be like that, I'm off to join the Popular Front
I'd still like you to call me Loretta though, comrade
I'm not convinced that the demographics in Tod are quite the same as Burnley, Dewsbury, Oldham etc.
I do think they all suffer from the same problems though and whether it is Labour, Tory, or any other political party, none of them have the solution to the many issues there.
We live in the 21st century, not the 1950s.
Yey! Dazh has woken up! Shame we’re retreating to the 1950s thanks to the unlucky combination of ****less leaders like Corbyn & Cameron, ruthless self interested leaders like Johnson & Gove, a jolly dose of backwards looking nationalism, a large spoon of racism and legitimate concerns, all sparked up with the catalyst of big data and highly targeted propaganda. Still… back we go!
Quick Q, given the Left's dislike of anything to do with Blair/Centrism is Blair solely hated for the Afghanistan/Iraq war and buddying up to Bush or do they have other issues with him?
The warmongering bastard built all those Surestart centres, brought in the minimum wage, massively reduced the amount of children living in poverty, massively reduced homelessness, signed the good friday agreement, invested in the NHS and education, devolved government and brought in the human rights act. Not to mention keeping the Tory’s out of power for 13 years. Frankly I'll never forgive him! The ****!
The very last thing we need is a return to anything like that bloody neoliberal nonsense. I'm sure we're all agreed on that.
Oh... and the aquaduct, the sanitation and the wine, obviously... 🙂
I’d still like you to call me Loretta though, comrade
Thought you saved that just for me. 😥
The warmongering bastard built all those Surestart centres, brought in the minimum wage, massively reduced the amount of children living in poverty, massively reduced homelessness, signed the good friday agreement, invested in the NHS and education, devolved government and brought in the human rights act. Not to mention keeping the Tory’s out of power for 13 years. Frankly I’ll never forgive him! The ****!
How many dead brown people per Surestart centre is an acceptable number?
Quick Q, given the Left’s dislike of anything to do with Blair/Centrism is Blair solely hated for the Afghanistan/Iraq war and buddying up to Bush or do they have other issues with him?
I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else, but I view Blair's leadership as a tragic missed opportunity. During his first term, he was shaping up to be an excellent domestic Prime Minister, with investment in public services and a peace deal in Northern Ireland his notable achievements. It seems that his messianic qualities led him into a disastrous war and coupled with a nasty authoritarian streak, means that much of his second and third terms were wasted.
his messianic qualities
Or, our strategic military interests meant we are part of the USA when it comes to these matters.
I was strongly anti Iraq war, but I’m also keen for us to reshape our defence policy to gain independence from the USA. If we remain almost entirely beholden to the USA for defence, we’ll be dragged into more of their misadventures again.
Or, our strategic military interests meant we are part of the USA when it comes to these matters.
Vietnam.
Blair had a choice - align with the US, or align with the EU and the rest of NATO.
Vietnam
Predated most of our equipment tie ins. There are whole areas of the UK military now where the USA hold the (software) keys.
Predated most of our equipment tie ins. There are whole areas of the UK military now where the USA hold the (software) keys
Which could be a problem if we wished to fight a war without US support. Not relevant to Iraq or Vietnam.
Constantly viewing absolutely bloody everything through the prism of Iraq is definitely the way to move the labour party forward and chimes, once again, with the real issues that people generally worry about today
As the last 4 years have shown
Oh....erm...
Constantly viewing absolutely bloody everything through the prism of Iraq is definitely the way to move the labour party forward and chimes, once again, with the real issues that people generally worry about today
Brown people don't matter. Trans people don't matter.
Which other groups would you sacrifice for power?
There are loads. Shall I do a list?
Alphabetical, comrade?
Or in order of my lofty disdain or proximity to imminent death at the behest of crusading western imperialism?
There are loads. Shall I do a list? Alphabetical? Or in order of disdain and proximity to imminent death at the behest of crusading western imperialism?
Don't worry, your disdain for all sorts of people is perfectly clear. Unless it's an opportunity to attack Corbyn, because then you'll pretend to be their best friend.
I’m not convinced that the demographics in Tod are quite the same as Burnley, Dewsbury, Oldham etc.
No they're not thankfully, it's a bit less 'white is right' in tod. Hence why I don't think the likes of Burnley et al should be held up as the labour party's target audience. If the idiots in Burnley think the labour party is too posh for them then they can carry voting for Boris and more of the policies which will see them destitute with no safety net. I'm sure they'll make do and mend with a bit of plucky english grit.
Yey! Dazh has woken up!
Always have been here, hence my singular focus on climate change and post-neo-liberal politics. That's too posh for labour though, who apparently need to get back to their roots with some casual racism and pastry based cuisine.
I check in on this thread every few days and the first post is usually Binners using "Sixth Former" as a pejorative term.
In heroic fashion they're presently getting on with post neo-liberal politics by having a massive factional barney about which candidate is the most trans-friendly (I think Dawn Butlers winning on points) and calling for the expelling of party members from LGB and womens rights groups who aren't deemed trans-inclusive enough
Labour leadership: row over support for trans rights charter
Candidates criticised for endorsing group that describes Woman’s Place UK as ‘trans-exclusionist hate group’
I don't think Monty Python could even have scripted this one that goes way past the PFJ definition of factionalism. You literally couldn't make it up
In Corbynland, they really have got their finger on the pulse on the really critical issues of the day in modern Britain. They've got lots of people in the common room signing online petitions though, and taking to Twitter
And that, after all, is what the Labour party is for
Whats that noise from number 10? Sounds like more champagne corks popping
I check in on this thread every few days and the first post is usually Binners using “Sixth Former” as a pejorative term.
Try not to be too judgmental - I don't think he has a lot more in his locker.
Perhaps Binners should swap “sixth form” for “campaigning on the margins, while we head into an extended period of Tory rule”… but it’s not nearly snappy enough. He should of course squeeze in “seeking an end to the neo-liberal consensus, rather than offering to help people with their lives lived here, in the real world” to be complete. “Sixth form” is just a handy snappy put down… even if entirely inaccurate these days (based on the small sample of current sixth formers I know). Perhaps he can start posting Young One clips and quotes instead. I’d welcome a change from the Monty Python content (it is increasingly on the nose).
hence my singular focus on climate change
The sad truth is, that we now have to find ways to act on climate change with the Tories in charge, for the next decade or more. And that means winning over people that vote Tory, especially the older voters. The best thing climate campaigners can do now is to put clear green water between themselves and the Labour Party, and make their issue one that the Conservative Party can adopt. The Tories will be far slower to act over the next decade or so than a Labour government would have been… but we don’t have, and are not going to get, a Labour government, in time to act. Pressure needs to be Party agnostic from now on, not hang on the hope of the Labour Party gaining office.
The best thing climate campaigners can do now is to put clear green water between themselves and the Labour Party
There always was clear green water, until the last campaign when the labour party adopted most of the policies. The major difference between labour and the tories, aside from the tory greenwash, is that labour wants to use decarbonisation as an opportunity to benefit those at the bottom, whilst the tories will simply see it as an opportunity for big business to make more money.
The trouble is that the heroic working class in Burnley and Blackburn still don't see climate change as a problem. They're more bothered about the ****stanis taking over the borough, and how they'd rather eat chips fried in beef dripping out of old newspapers just like the good ol' days.
I check in on this thread every few days and the first post is usually Binners using “Sixth Former” as a pejorative term.
Events have proved him right, and his opponents on this topic wrong. If you asked the CLPs today it's pretty clear that the majority of them would say "We wish we'd listened to Binners".
There always was clear green water, until the last campaign when the labour party adopted most of the policies.
True. The danger now is that climate change issues get linked to those currently running the Labour Party, and get sidelined because of that.
Even by Corbynite standards, RLB has played an absolute blinder today. She's managed to offend gay rights and womens rights campaigners who's she's implied are a bunch of bigots who should be expelled from the party.
No need to bother Becky. #expelme is now trending on social media and they're leaving of their own accord, en masse
She really is 'Continuity Corbyn', isn't she? With his same razor-sharp political instincts. At this rate, the labour party are going to run out of voters to insult and alienate before too long.
I expect anyone still left in Labours press office who's not left in despair already, has presently got their head in their hands.
No doubt the press are lining up their 'Ha ha haaaaaa..... just look at what the mad, loony lefty nutters are up to now!!' stories up for tomorrow, which 'Becky' has handily already written for them. Thats if they still think it's worth reporting on the madness and incompetence of the Labour leadership any more, given their complete irrelevance. Maybe 'Becky' could cut out the middle man and publish them herself?
I did wonder about the wisdom of presenting the deportation of foreign violent criminals as racist since the Borders Act 2007 requires it. If you're on the ropes over Anti Semitism shouting at the top of your voice that you were definatley racist in 2007 isn't gonna help. Mind you they seem to have got away with it.
With luck things should improve dramtically if Nandy or Starmer win and kick the Socialist Campaign Group/Momentum into touch.