[Closed] My Mrs Said the Strangest Thing Last Night

I think that making it look like an omnishambles is all part of the plot. When it comes to the true blue Tory ideological stuff, they're refusing to stray off course, no matter what happens. George Osbournes 'There is no Plan B" being just the starkest and most obvious example

The rest of the stuff is just noise

They're busy bulldozing through the irreversible dismantling of the state at a frankly alarming rate. Policing, Education and Health are all being prepped for full scale privatisation. And if they get it all through, there will be no going back

History will view this lot as the most radical and destructive government this country has ever seen. Thatchers divisive legacy will pail into insignificance next to the long term damage this lot are wreaking

The most depressing thing about the whole thing is the virtual silence and total impotence from the utterly pathetic Millibean led Labour party. They're a disgrace, not worthy of the name 'opposition'

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/17/cameron-goes-where-thatcher-never-dared?INTCMP=SRCH ]Be afraid. Be very afraid![/url]

i agree with binners

does anyone want to admit to still having confidence in the Jolly Boys Outing currently taking place at Numbers 10 & 11 Downing street?

No, but I also don't have any confidence in any of the current alternatives 🙁

If there was an election tomorrow I fear I'd be drawing a c*ck and balls on a ballot paper again!!

With solemn regret, and a degree of confusion....

....Binners +1, especially

The most depressing thing about the whole thing is the virtual silence and total impotence from the utterly pathetic Millibean led Labour party. They're a disgrace, not worthy of the name 'opposition'

Exactly what Binners said.

There will still be room for the good amongst you to move to an independent scotland though.

I agree with Nick 😉

Can't see anyone who could support this lot, but as said above there is no alternative. Are the monster raving looney party still going?
No wonder people are turning to the more extreme parties, if I had to vote now I think would vote green although I'm pretty sure we would be in another big (but different type of) mess if they got it. Or vote the same as JEngledow!

Sad thing is Labor are about as much use as a water proof teabag currently they have 0 ideas other than lets spend some money which we don't have.
Yes the coalition have cut hard but in all seriousness they had no choice if we had done nothing we would be in a far worse position than Greece is in.
For years we have spent more as a nation and as individuals than we have earnt this is unsustainable at some point you have to stop.
Long term damage was already caused by the spend spend generation I like health care and the police etc etc but if they cost more than we earn then we can not afford them in their current state.
I hate commenting on this sort of thread

Yes the coalition have cut hard but in all seriousness they had no choice if we had done nothing we would be in a far worse position than Greece is in.

with respect thats bollox

[i]The party's trouble springs not from a lack of rightwing zeal but from failed austerity medicine, and the polls are grim. Cameron pledged national debt would be falling as a percentage of GDP by 2015: it won't. Instead the Office for Budget Responsibility says net debt will rise by £465bn. That's more than the £319bn it rose in all of Labour's 13 years.[/i]

Present Tory policies are driving the deficit relentlessly up. Be under no illusions, they regard this, along with the mass unemployment fuelling it, as 'a price worth paying' for their ideological 'mission'. Which is to strip away the state completely, and fundamentally restructure society in the most unequal way imaginable. All for the exclusive benefit of a tiny minority - themselves and their rich friends

Long term damage was already caused by the spend spend generation I like health care and the police etc etc but if they cost more than we earn then we can not afford them in their current state.

The fact that anyone believes this crap just shows how devastatingly effective their relentless campaign of disinformation, (eagerly fuelled by a right wing press) has been

I think these threads are more illuminating when you see who fails to.comment on them....

Yes the coalition have cut hard but in all seriousness they had no choice if we had done nothing we would be in a far worse position than Greece is in

That is the right wing drivel they spouted to shaft the public sector and the TINA [ there is no alternative] is a lie

They could have [ sit down and prepare yourself] raised taxes from the rich to blance the books rather than than hit the disabled and cut the higher rate of tax....radical th inlking i know but all perfectly feasible
Or cut more slowly
It is ideologically driven everyone knows this who follows politics

Yup, one more for binners here [gonna get some kind of record here fella], aslo with regret and quiet, sad resignation. Not cos I don't want to agree with binners. I'm a Lib Dem voter. I supported the coalition at the start as I saw, given the numbers, no other way.

I'm actually OK with the tuition fees. Yes I'd rather they weren't there at all, and I despise the trend for monetising the value of an education. But the t&cs on these loans are better than they are on mine where the limit for paying them back doesn't rise with inflation but stays at 15k so effectively drops year on year. Not sure if mine get wiped out after 20yrs either tbh.

But the tories are guilty of moving the goal posts, and as a coalition it was a bold/ambitious one for a country that has not had one in modern times. I'd actually like us to have more, and be more of a multiparty nation, but coalition is likely to become a dirty word after this. Lib Dems are getting the shity end of the stick (in part deservedly, and in part not), and owing to the simplistic nature of debate in our media will likely be destroyed in the next election. As they will be blamed for what the tories are doing. I still think things would have been worse had the coalition not happened. Another election in 6 months could well have return a tory majority as George's enept cluelessness would not have destroyed everything by then. But a part of me is wondering if five years of tory rule, time for them to bugger everything up with no-one else to take the blame. Might have been better in the long run, force labour to find its balls, and maybe through byelections given the libs and the Labs a chance and calling a vote of no confidence and bringing it to an end.

Long story short, after the last election there was no good way forward. [unless you like calling him Dave]

have to agree with Binners as well

What Binners said, but with more swearing.

Lib Dems are getting the shity end of the stick (in part deservedly, and in part not), owing to the simplistic nature of debate in our media will likely be destroyed in the next election

Oh right, so no discernible position on anything and a complete failure to capitalise on the opportunity to properly examine electoral reform has got nowt to do with it? clearly its just down to the thick people who vote not being able to see through the charade presented to them ....... hang on a minute isn't that precisely why they won't vote for your lot?....... Anyone would think you lot were led by an Old Etonian too!

What screwed us all over was 13 years of labor government in which amongst many things they sold all our gold reserves out at the bottom of the market. Believed that the market would always keep going up and borrowed borrowed and borrowed some more in the hope that tmrw would pay for today it didn't work !!
You save in the good times for times like this.
You suggest going back to the same way is a solution, wrong its the problem.
People need to take responsibility for the mess we are all in rather than looking for someone else to blame.

I have to say... I'm getting quite unnerved by all this agreeing with me. Just to check... this is the Singletrack Forum, isn't it?

You suggest going back to the same way is a solution, wrong its the problem.

Who's suggesting that then? What everyone seems to be in agreement with is that the present Tory policies, far from offering a solution to the problem - the reduction of the deficit - are making it considerably worse/larger.

And if you think these policies are being driven by their stated aim - to reduce the deficit - rather than their [b]actual[/b] aim - to dismantle the welfare state, and then privatise the education system, NHS, policing, and pretty much anything else they can think of, then you're simply not paying much attention to whats [b]actually[/b] happening on the ground

To fully understand what is [b]actually[/b] taking place in this counrty, read this

[img] [/img]

And start being very very worried about where they're taking us

Binners, another 5 and you get a "Get out of Ban free" card. 😀

BB - All the parties are guilty of it, its easier to get cheap soundbite win in, over a substantive arguement about something which more complicated than most people want to take the time to understand.

LDs did try do get electoral reform off the ground but I don't know if you remember the AV campaigns, both of which were pretty appalling, the pro insipid, lazy and patronising, and the 'no' at best misleading and in my opinion outright lied. That wasn't debate it was a simplistic, emotive, and a let down, from all parties.

Sometimes the lack of substance has benefitted the Lib Dems, it could be argued it put them into power, but right now its punnishing them and benefitting Labour, who's most outstanding and substantive contribution to the politcal landscape in the last 6 months had been a staggering silence [given recent efforts is actually a pretty shrewd play by them tbh].

In response to the OP,
As for CMD and co, they've done and said enough to remind the public of their true motivations, whilst achieving little. It could have been worse, Borris for instance.
I'd say confidence in the Lib Dems from people who may consider them a voting option is growing a bit again.
Clegg was always onto a hiding to nothing from the start, but he and the Lib Dems are in a stronger position now than in the coalition's early stages. Even from inside the government, they've been a more vocal and effective opposition than Labour.
People will remember Clegg's apology, and associate him and his party with an idealogical opposition to the fee rises, even if he actually did the opposite. Strange but true, but at least he does something.
In contrast, I'm not sure people will remember a word Milliband's uttered over the course of this term, or ever have a clue as to what he represents. A decent opposition leader should have shredded this lot on so many occasions but he just seems to be waiting for something to happen.

Overall, I reckon confidence in Brittish politics as a whole is as low as in this particular government.

If there was an election tomorrow I fear I'd be drawing a c*ck and balls on a ballot paper again!!

One annoying thing about this lot is that they are using headline grabbing cuts (that are fuelling some Tory ideological things for the most part, like scaring off poor people from university or cutting benefits) to sneak in some really nasty Tory stuff in areas like immigration without anyone really noticing.

I like to think I would vote for green or another small party next time as Labour have gone very wishy washy, the lib dems have committed suicide and the Torys are undiluted evil. But really voting Labour is the only way out of the terror we are being plunged into.

nashwaymule - Member

What screwed us all over was 13 years of labor government in which amongst many things they sold all our gold reserves out at the bottom of the market.

once again i call bobbins!!!!

it really is amazing how many people believe just what the press tell them to

I think a lot of the problem stems from politicians acting as if they are unaccountable, and a voting public acting as if they don't care.

I'd like to see it mixed up a bit.
Whichever constituency gets the lowest percentage turnout of votes cast, loses their seat in parliament. Just completely scratched for the next term, no MP. No more "safe seats".
Those constituents get one day a week when the next nearest MP will listen to their problems, but apart from that lose their representation as a kind of incentive to put some effort in the next time. No actually, make that the bottom ten constituencies .
That should make them earn their votes, and make the voters use their vote.

BB - All the parties are guilty of it, its easier to get cheap soundbite win in, over a substantive arguement about something which more complicated than most people want to take the time to understand.

It may appear irreversible currently, but if we decide as a people that we want these services back in public ownership then it would be up to the government to sort it out and make it happen.
Nothing is truly impossible.

Nothing is impossible. True. But the devil is in the detail.

For example, the NHS reform is truly insidious. Just one phrase changes the whole nature of the idea of the NHS itself. It is that services must be delivered by 'Any Qualified Provider'

What these three words do is legally throw the NHS open to EU competition law. From that point on any healthcare 'provider' (read: deep-pocketed profit-making multinational) will be able to legally challenge any decision made by GP's decision on commissioning, disputing their d3cision not to award the contract to them. Thus they can force themselves into the healthcare market. Only to cherry pick the 'services' they see as profitable, of course

There a stunning irony in the Tories using EU law to achieve their long-dreamed-of privatisation of the NHS. An institution they claim to loath

I agree with TJ.

i agree with binners

Bliar's/Brown's divisive legacy will pail into insignificance next to the long term damage this lot are wreaking

I don't like to post on political threads, but personally, dimantling the state is a good thing in my book. And I certainly wont be one of the 'elite few' reaping the benefits.
Ha, reaping benefits.. that's funny.

it really is amazing how many people believe just what the press tell them to

So it's not true? they didn't flog the gold for bobbins?

Whom should I believe?

Whom should I believe?

Me. Obviously. Now just agree with me and have done with it 😀

agreed.

There's something wrong with wanting to be a politician.

Binners +1.

Anyone who wants to be a politician should automatically be excluded from doing so.

slimjim78 - Member

So it's not true? they didn't flog the gold for bobbins?

Whom should I believe?

they sold 60% of the reserve for 3.5bn from 1999- 2002

unfortunately several years later there was a big economic crash and the price of gold went up so if it was sold now it would be worth 4-5x more

heres a graph

[img] [/img]

either way it represents a tiny fraction of the national debt and in theh grand scheme of things means bugger all,
it was however used extensively by the torys and their media chums, as part of the vitriolic character assassination of gordon brown,

is that graph adjusted for inflation?

The loss is now valued at about £5Billion isn't it?
I reckon the police could put that sort of money to good use.
I did think that he'd sold pretty much all of it though (at a 20 year low)

£5billion?

Pretty insignificant when compared to the rate Dave and the boys are adding to the national debt currently.... surely?

[img] [/img]

I'm no expert but this looks pretty shit from where I'm sitting.

Pretty insignificant when compared to the rate Dave and the boys are adding to the national debt currently.... surely?

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/
I found this pretty good.

There's something wrong with wanting to be a politician.

Anyone who wants to be a politician should automatically be excluded from doing so.

Go to [s]the library[/s] Amazon and get a copy of Plato's Republic. He did this question is some considerable depth nearly 2,500 years ago....

Anyway, I;d also give binners one. Vote of support that is.

I don't really like or seem to agree with ANY politician. But the current encumbents have been sent into the building site by us and asked to rebuild a nice house out of the rubble left by the previous bunch. And we don't like what they are having to do, or how its looking.

By 'us' I am meaning the royal 'us' not us in the real us sense.

First G&T of the evening in, can I suggest a long term view? Post 1947, and the creation of the NHS (or indeed post 1912 and NI) all our parties have been pulled to the centre. Right wing can't get rid of 'socialist' health service (hopefully!) and left wing can't get rid of banks (spineless). Thus "politics" is mostly wrangling over the fine print, therefore intrinsically boring and alienating to most of the electorate (low voter turnout). Result is coalition WITH NO MANDATE totally destroying the country. Result is-going to hell in a handcart, probably with slick tyres to speed entry.