I want to know where 'the other side' of all this so called missing money went - there is a control account with millions sat on it ? Or who has been really on the rob.
I want to know where ‘the other side’ of all this so called missing money went – there is a control account with millions sat on it ? Or who has been really on the rob.
My understanding is that there was no actual financial loss to the PO? The system issues resulted in apparent losses that suggested the postmasters/mistresses had been pocketing money.
The PO then pocketed any money that the accused paid back to avoid being charged?
The money that the subpostmasters "paid back" went into a balancing account, from where it was absorbed into their general profits.
Lots of toxic government institutions which prioritise the organisation over the people
See also contaminated blood, the eventual enquiry aboout sewage and any NHS error in the recent past.
Making a statutory duty to be candid on pain of jail time when managing a public service can't come soon enough.
I know PV already believed in god, but with today's election news she'll be doubling down on that belief no doubt.
Making a statutory duty to be candid on pain of jail time when managing a public service can’t come soon enough.
Absolutely.
Obviously the main victim in all this. Poor woman.
I did sort of feel sorry for her at the end. Got told no more question so time to relax but then the judge decided to throw in a finisher.
Then on reflection I remembered its all self inflicted and massively outweighed by the damage caused to the subpostmasters and their families so I got over it.
Just watching 5 minutes of the footage yesterday she is following the tactics of previous witnesses. She can't really recall key details with any clarity when it's about her but can remember enough about other people's activities at that time to shift the blame/focus onto them
I hope they all burn in hell for the suffering they inflicted upon innocent people. Aloof doesn't begin to describe the attitude towards the little people.
She knows she's culpable and that is why the waterworks came on when required
Her actions don’t match her words.
It’s relatively easy to say sorry and feel sorry for oneself when we’re in trouble. It’s much harder to take responsibility for things.
She must have either have known, or have been actively trying not to know what was going on IMO.
I have to point out that it's human nature to remember everything that exculpates yourself and forget everything that incriminates yourself.
It's not really about her being a Bad Person, she's probably no better and no worse than the majority of people would be in that situation. It's why we need robust institutions, protection for whistleblowers and a healthy distrust of authorities.
It's not like the evidence hasn't been all around us through our entire lives.
She knew about all of it. She made a conscious decision to take the actions the PO did. She had the power to stop it but made the decision to continue the whole disgusting charade. She has lied and is continuing to lie now.
I know PV already believed in god, but with today’s election news she’ll be doubling down on that belief no doubt.
She and the media have another two? Days of her enquiry evidence for her to gaff (or cry) her way on to the front pages.
Unfortunately she's only shown how incompetent and complacent she was in the role of CEO, imo too trusting and stupid to change a broken system.
Having worked with PO and now 'for' the PO in my shop, they has always been and still is a gap between PO management and Postmasters. For example we've run out post office for over 8years now - we've seen an area manager face to face twice in that time...
All these highly paid CEO melon farmers will be the first to tell you they’re paid so well because of the significance of the responsibilities they burden. So maybe no better and no worse but utterly accountable irrespective of any recall issues.
She can’t really recall key details with any clarity when it’s about her but can remember enough about other people’s activities at that time to shift the blame/focus onto them
That was raised to her yesterday and needless to say she went silent, got out an onion and then waffled.
It’s not really about her being a Bad Person, she’s probably no better and no worse than the majority of people would be in that situation.
It's the group-think in these sorts of organisations that prioritises and rewards short term gains at any price over any other consideration that ends up with folks like Vennels into enquiries like this.
It’s not really about her being a Bad Person
I'd go further. I think that believing that you are a "good person" can make you more prone to doing spectacularly bad things.
It's all part of being a religious zealot, right? Believing that the org you're part of must be right despite all logic and the cost to the little people.
I did sort of feel sorry for her at the end. Got told no more question so time to relax but then the judge decided to throw in a finisher.
it was quite a way to finish for the day. Sir Wyn doesn’t normally ask pointed questions.
i do wonder what the inquiry can really say, other than “the organisation had deep seated problems, is riddled with lies and liars and major corporate governance issues”. No doubt the outcome will be a major overhaul of PO management, and the police might prosecute a few scape goats. Beyond that, perhaps some changes to private prosecutions / investigative powers of the PO. But is anyone really expecting it to change other institutions? My guess is they are all looking on saying “that’s scandalous, it would never happen here” whilst being run in exact pg the way that puts the institution first.
So is there going to be an avenue for the postmasters get any more compensation out of this process, given that legal fees ate up most of the initial payout? Christ knows they deserve it
So is there going to an avenue for the postmasters get any more compensation out of this process, given that legal fees ate up most of the initial payout? Christ knows they deserve it
The new/enhanced compensation scheme that the government set up along with quashing their convictions is supposed to do exactly that. BUT that is really an outcome of the ITV drama not the Inquiry! I'm not sure if the Inquiry would have had the power to instigate that (or even to recommend it) if the government hadn't been shamed into action.
"Crocodile tears…"
Exactly what said when I saw that charade yesterday. She needs putting in jail... and the £million+ pay she got during this time reclaiming. Evil self serving bitch that evidently didn't give a fhuck about anyone else but her own position.
I have to point out that it’s human nature to remember everything that exculpates yourself and forget everything that incriminates yourself
That is true but the PO witnesses have been stretching that to the absolute limit.
Jarnail Singh had no memory of receiving the email telling him about the flaws with Horizon. No recollection of opening the email. No clue about whether he'd saved it on his HDD (he had).
Despite this, he had surprisingly clear memory of NOT printing it out (which he had).
I’m sure the Archbishop is delighted to have someone of such high morals ordained into th priesthood. She sounds like a perfect match.
@chrismac I think it's a shame she didn't become Bishop of London. That would have been great.
Honestly she's lucky that the election is taking attention off her. Her performance at the enquiry is pitiful execrable.
The is a group of people in society who don't care about others. Literally, do - not- care. They would drive past a fresh road traffic accident and feel no emotion. Obvious club members are Boris, Trump, Braverman, Musk etc. But we need to add people like Vennels to this club. She knew sub postmasters were being locked up, she knew they were taking their own lives, she knew families and finances were being destroyed and she knew their were unanswered questions about Horizon. She had the power to stop it, to ask questions, to pause prosecutions, to probe more. Yet she did nothing, because she did not care.
I'd love to see some scientific analysis of these people. Wire them up to stress monitors and expose them to trauma videos, I reckon the dial would barely flicker.
She's a definite case where you can tell when she lieing- it's whenever her lips move.
A lot of old emails being brought up during this and causing problems for people.
Much like the government switched comms to self deleting WhatsApps to evade freedom of information and inquiries, I wonder if organisations will now out of caution be deleting all emails after some number of years.
I wonder if organisations will now out of caution be deleting all emails after some number of years.
Yes its now pretty routine to have a default email retention period with the ability to manually mark to retain longer. Length depends on paranoia and in some cases legal requirements
There are more smoking guns than a Waterloo reenactment society get-together.
Vennells is a coward, and has used religiosity to build up a veneer of unjustified self confidence that she is always 'doing the right thing'. It is so deeply ingrained in her that she can justify pretty much anything to herself.
The temptation for the cross-examining lawyers to grab her by the shoulders and shake her must be overwhelming.
But, in the long run, she'll be fine. She won't do any jail time, she won't end up in penury. My bet is she'll disappear overseas at the end of this and live out her days in a degree of comfort.
Also, isn't it incredible? These so-called 'christians' - whenever they are exposed they all seem to have missed the day at god-school where the bit about not bearing false witness is covered. 🤔
I wonder if organisations will now out of caution be deleting all emails after some number of years.
As you note, government swapped, conveniently, to WhatsApp. I reckon that's where a lot of the director-level naughtiness goes on nowadays. It's highly unlikely the likes of Johnson would be the first to realise anything. Ever.
I wonder if organisations will now out of caution be deleting all emails after some number of years.
One of my previous employers (nobody contentious) introduced this as policy almost 20 years ago. A right PITA it was.
I thought it was rather telling, showing her contempt and disdain with the scowl she gave when those in the room groaned at another of her weak responses. A little slip that said alot to me.
Mr Beer though, I could watch him all day! 🙂
Dude deleting email doesn’t delete it from the back end systems. However senior management and board of megacorps are beholden to shareholders so stuff can disappear. WhatsApp of course is entirely off grid which is why it should be made an offence (in some manner) to use these sort of comms for official business. It’s evident that it’s being used NOT for convenience but because it’s off-grid / out of band.
WhatsApp of course is entirely off grid which is why it should be made an offence (in some manner) to use these sort of comms for official business
The US SEC fined the major financial corporations a total of about 2 billion dollars for not enforcing rules about not using whatsapp etc vs the approved systems with logs.
"Also, isn’t it incredible? These so-called ‘christians’ – whenever they are exposed they all seem to have missed the day at god-school where the bit about not bearing false witness is covere"
Or being self serving shitbags that are in it for the love of money at the expense of whomever happens to cop for it.
Yeah - yesterdays evidence was pretty shocking (but expected), surprised that the media haven't run with it as much as the could but then there are other things happening at the moment and maybe public interest is wavering a little now.
It's cirtainly becoming more and more the 'upper management' scandal rather than 'horizon' .
Yesterdays interview of a postmistress on Jeremy Vine is worth a listen - from about 43min
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0020233?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
She makes many a good point about how postoffices are currently run, especially rural and isolated offices (like mine). Our office actually makes 4p a first class stamp and 2p a second - the postoffice, although it's what we are known for would not exist without our retail side which is actually the part that pays the bills. Our postoffice is run on commission and makes the shop around £4-500 a month.
No one will pay for this clear crime, I have stopped watching it will end up the same a Steven Lawrence case dragged out for years then no one prosecuted.
I hope I am wrong.
I don't believe it was ever meant to? https://www.postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/publications/terms-reference
But watching some of the grillings it's easy to forget, and have an impression that some justice is in progress.
