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I understand where you're coming from @molgrips, but I still disagree.
Because it was one dominant cultural group overriding and marginalising a minority.
Only because one "cultural group" decided that they were Welsh and being Welsh was more important than being "British" and the "English" (not British, of course) Parliament (who governened the whole of the UK) was just crapping on them because they were Welsh, not just because there was hundreds of thousands of people who needed water - and it was decided that their need overrode the needs of a small number of people.
I'm pretty sure that the people in the village in Ladybower must have been pretty peeved that they couldn't fall back on being "Welsh" as some special status that meant it was not OK for their homes to be flooded.
It's all a load of nationalist sillyness. Einsteinian measles.
<Deleted post (in the interests of being nice)>
🙂
I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I'm saying there is additional context to this particular move. And it wasn't just the fact it was in Wales to supply England, it was how it was handled, and how the sensitivities were ignored.
It’s all a load of nationalist sillyness
As I said - it was more of a cultural issue than a national one.
Out of interest, OP, what have you heard against Neath that has turned you against it? Im Neath born and bred, black blood in my veins, and I know it has a bad reputation, but I for the life of me dont see why? There are people on here speaking as if South Wales is some violent aberration in the normally peaceful idyll that is mainland Britain (except South Wales).
Face it, Britain is rough as guts top to bottom, East to West, and standards have eroded enormously since I was a kid. Youre as likely to get a leathering down here as anywhere else in Britain, but not especially so, unless youre the type of person who deserves one. Dont be scared mun, we're only people just like you.
Also, the anti English thing is very definitely a thing, but only due to the supposed class system that abounds in places like the affluent South East of England. I have plenty of Northern and Midlander acquaintances who are liked and accepted here because they havent got a BFO born -to - rule attitude, as if Wales was put onto England as some sort of coastal, hilly playground populated by adorable little folk who speak a funny little language and farm sheep, not a proud and skint Nation of its own who sometimes balk at being patronised by wealthy Southerners in their own country.
Just an insight, based on experience, for you. Not in any way aimed at OP by the way.
In fact, I was talking to a fella from Oop Noorth yesterday, and he commented how South Wales is actually a well kept secret. If you come only 5 mins away from the M4 youre likely to be surrounded by mature woodland and healthy rivers and friendly people like me. He said to get a comparable house in his part of the world would cost 50% extra without the benefits of biking, climbing, fishing, hiking, kayaking, etc.
Oh and the Cofiwch Tryweryn thing has very little to do with remembering drowned villages, and lots to do with resenting the idea, real or imagined, that Wales is a commodity to be used and abused by the English for their own ends, and to hell with the locals.
If you drive through here, youll see it painted everywhere, along with FWA and their emblem, if you know what it is. How bitter the people who paint these things really feel is a different matter, but its definately alive down here.
I’ll be a bit more direct and less polite than others are kindly being.
I’m Welsh, I’ve lived in South Wales most of my life.
‘The Valleys’ can be like living on a different planet sometimes. Like so many other former industrial areas, there are some seriously deprived places.
I don’t know Ystrad at all really, other than to drive through it, but I know Penrhys, which is just up the road. It’s better now than it was in the past, but, and this is part-truth, part-urban legend I’m sure. In the dim and distant past (80s and 90s) when the Council and Police were trying to cool down the notorious Gurnos estate, they moved the worst residents to Penrhys, a Housing Estate located on top of a bleak hill, overlooking Ystrad to the East and Ferndale to the North (I know Ferndale pretty well) it was a disaster, within weeks they’d burned down the Police station and Community Centre and local Youths threw stones at the Emergency Services driving them out making it an effectively lawless, dystopian hellscape. They had to demolish 2/3rds to civilise the place. Even today it’s worth considering that the average lifespan for a Man in either the Gurnos or Penrhys is 58.8 years, 10 years less than most Developing Countries, and 22 year less than the national average.
It’s an cruel, and possibly unfair thing to say, but If you’re thinking about South Wales, anything north of Caerphilly or south of Brecon should be considered with caution, take the time to go to the local pub on a Friday night, visit the local shops and the Post Office.
Valley Cops was a short series made by the BBC a few years ago, it’s on Youtube, consider this a sort of ‘worst case’.
I absolutely 100% agree with what P-Jay wrote. The Valleys is such a diverse place with some amazing little bits tucked away but lots of absolute hell-holes right next door. When I say right next door I mean it, you can go one or two streets away from a really pleasant area and be in the equivalent of a ghetto! I've also lived around (but never in) the Valleys areas all my life and work has taken me around them for the last 14 years, they really are another world. Some parts are stuck in the 80's, others fully modern. Merthyr Tydfil is a classic case, you can see everything there from every part of the area at the same time.
The point I'm making is you really have to get to know the exact bit you want to move to before moving. Your example of looking at Neath is a prime location for being easy to make a big mistake. You may well bw very close to Afan but there's a reason the area has previously been hosed with EU development cash - it desperately needed it. Now that has gone it's very hard to say whether the area will decline rapidly or not. One thing is for sure, I'll never live in any of the Valleys areas. Not because I'm a snob or anything (coming from Crickhowell that's automatically assumed!). There are just so many other, better areas to live in not far away. I know you said you're retiring so no commute to worry about but to realise that the Valleys pretty much empties every day into Cardiff, Bridgend and Swansea causing massive traffic issues. If you want to go anywhere during rush hour times make sure you want to go the opposite way to everyone else.
Bottom line is if you want to be near mountain biking and in a decent area you're looking at anywhere in Wales except the empty bits in Mid Wales and the Valleys. The Beacons and North Wales would be my choice.
So again I ask, whats so wrong with Neath? I think it has a lot to offer people as long as you dont expect the full shopping experience from town, especially people who like a bit of hills and trees and that .What Neath and surrounding areas need is well paid manufacturing, processing and mining jobs like we used to have, like I used to have, instead of the bullshit exploitative jobs that abound nowadays.
And definitely what reluctantjumper says about traffic. If you like the Gower move there, because every one heads there on a nice day, you can be stuck in traffic for miles. Moving West to East is generally easier than moving East to West, all the big cities are relatively East and the undeveloped pretty places are relatively West.
Out of interest OP, wherabouts are you thinking of moving from, and what are you expecting from your new prospective location?
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Neath, it just suffers the same issues as the rest of the Valleys. You have good areas intertwined with bad areas and the contrast between the two is quite stark. As for jobs, the manufacturing ones are unlikely to come back due to geographical issues. Companies want to be within fast, easy reach of motorways and ports. Getting lorries in and out of the Valleys and South Wales in general (thanks to the Brynglas tunnels) is slow and expensive, there's a reason that you don't really find any distribution hubs away from the M4 and fewer once you go west of Chepstow.
A few years ago I worked in Ebbw Vale for a couple of months.
Christ, the place is grim at first, but, I grew to love it. Everyone was really friendly, even the local druggies when they were not stoned.A group of us used to go into Wetherspoons for breakfast, all the locals talked with us, no animosity to 'outsiders' at all. MTBing not far away, lovely scenery all around.
Some of the Locals are very insular. One Lady told me she had moved away for 15 years while she was married, but she was back in the area now. I thought she had gone to Cardiff or Newport, no, she had moved to Tredegar, 5 miles away in the next valley.
It's just about at a low now, but is slowly recovering. Houses in the area can be had for bargain prices. TVR are building a factory there now, that will attract a few more people to the area, so it will be going a little more upmarket from the rock bottom it has been for the last 15 years +.
Be aware of traffic problems in the Valleys. It can be grim heading South in the morning, and North in the evening. Top of the Valleys is a good location, a hour or so to Cardiff, and very easy access to the Brecons and beyond. The Heads of the Valleys road is pretty good too. The Valleys railways are all (well ,mostly) being electrified now, so the train service will improve in the next few years with more trains and better reliability.
Define a good area. The area I live in is classed as a shithole problem area but if you walk 100 yards off the main road I have huge mature Beech forests, badgers foxes and owls galore, reservoirs and rivers to fish and boat in, off road access to Afan, and the associated forest areas. I can literally walk 400 yards down the road, turn left then go offroad for miles in any direction except South . Cos I'd get wet, cos thats Swansea Bay.
So, if youre someone who likes spending as mu h time in Nature as possible, I'd say thats a good area to live, despite its reputation.
I have never been ‘asked out’ for a fight in my life (and I grew up in a Yorkshire market town) other than in Wales.
I have never been 'asked out' for a fight in my (adult) life other than in New Zealand...so don't move there it's shite.
If you do move please respect the local culture and possibly try and learn a bit of the local language. You will be accepted as part of the community and respected a lot more.
Define a good area.
For me it's relatively quiet, good neighbours and access to open space. A difference of a street away can make a massive difference. Where I live now is technically classed as Tremorfa in Cardiff, a generally unpleasant part of the city that has a plethora of issues. But as it's the other side of the main road and not a through route it's fine. If I lived two streets to the south I would be on road that is access for a lot of people to the rougher part of my estate and has a few issues. Literally 100 yards makes a massive difference.
If where you live suits you then great, the more people in an area that like it and are happy then there's a higher chance that they will take pride in an area and look after it and improve it. The Valleys as a whole don't really have this enough to lift the whole area, I wish it did as the area could be great for WFH, local enterprises and cottage industries. I actually had a delivery to do a few weeks ago to one part of Neath I didn't know existed and it was really pleasant, just north of Llantwit Cemetery. Classed as Tonna but definitely dind't feel like it.
Ha! Llantwit is where I was born and raised, and its about half a mile from Neath town. See why I wont have people slag it off ?
But if you want to talk history, read about how valuable South Wales coal was, and how much money was made – and then look at how poor the area is now.
The same could be said of the NE or Lancashire, and probably plenty of other areas.
Capel Celyn
A pedant would point out that Welsh industry and people benefit from the Dee Regulation scheme as well as those on the other side of the River including the steel works, the paper mill and the customers of HDCymru. The history of the scheme and the quality of the decision notwithstanding
Just wait to they find out that Vrynwy is going to be dedicated to supplying London
I’ve arrived in South Wales and earlier visited my friend on Caerphilly mountain who then took me on a tour of some areas in Cardiff that he thinks I should consider. Radyr, etc.
Also looked at some of the new build estates than Barrett, Persimmon, etc are building but they are not very inviting!
It was his daughter, who works in Neath, that told me to avoid it. Personally I am not so sure, I have seen comments on previous threads on this forum from people in that area who really like it. All the websites that list surveys of good areas in wales also seem to indicate that it might be preferable over the ‘valleys’.
So now I have checked in to my hotel room in Treherbert, which is a little further up the valley than Ystrad.
I’ve just spent a pleasant couple of hours in the hotel bar with a group of 7 middle-aged ladies from the local area who have been advising me how it is much safer and nicer now than it was in the past, and a couple of them knew the house I was interested in. I bought one of the 3 rounds of sambucas we had 🤣
I am moving from Woking in Surrey. It too has some less desirable areas, including the most local pub to me, but one difference is that generally people in London and the south east are distinctly less friendly than many other places in the country - except maybe Brighton.
My mother moved to a house on the Whitehawk estate in Brighton, which was a pretty rough estate, but she liked it and her neighbours.
I feel quite happy about the area now based on meeting some locals and might stay another night and try the other bar.
When I first moved down to Cardiff as a student in 1983 it seemed like another era as well, with fashions a decade or so behind mainland England. It doesn’t seem that much of a disjoint here from what I’ve seen so far.
If I move here I will make an attempt to maybe learn some of the language - at least to correct my pronunciation. The local hospital seems to have a Welsh name purposely designed to be hard to pronounce, even one of the locals made a bit of mess of it.
What is the local hospital name?
Welsh is a very old language and Wales is a very old Country, most of it is named in Welsh.
Trying to learn the correct pronounciations will go a long way to a) endear you to locals, and b) make it clearer exactly where it is youre asking directions for.
Dont fret too much , a lot of the locals cant pronounce the local area and features correctly either. My personal PITA is Swansea people who pronounce their local river Tawe (Tah-wear) as towie. There is an actual big river called the Towy (towie) not far from there. This kind of thing happens all the time between non-Welsh and Welsh speakers.
Ysbyty George Thomas - although when we looking at the map I think it was a different name starting with Ysbyty as one lady asked her friend ‘is that the George Thomas?’
Maybe we got it confused with Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Bronllwyn.
@bullshotcrummond - what's the rush? If you're retiring, I'd spend some good quality time trying out lots of different places. Then shortlist, and visit again.
casual xenophobia
How can you tell what he's wearing? Would one prefer more formal xenophobia. Perhaps black tie - xeonophobia is more to sir's suiting?
A lot of valley communities are a little insular.
I worked in South Wales on and off for a while in the early 90's and found a lot of similarities to the Calder Valley.
A couple of places, Blackwood being one, were extremely friendly and welcoming. Some of the smaller places slightly less so until you got to know folk.
No surprise there.
Lots of studies done on how living in steep sided valleys affects mental health.
Buy somewhere that gets plenty of light throughout the day if possible.........
Ysbyty George Thomas – although when we looking at the map I think it was a different name starting with Ysbyty as one lady asked her friend ‘is that the George Thomas?’
Maybe we got it confused with Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Bronllwyn.
Ysbyty means Hospital. George Thomas in Cardiff at least was rebranded, something to do with old George being a wrong un back in the 70s. The one in Cardiff is now just called City Hospice. I don't know if they've renamed the one in RCT, but they might have been the confusion.
Ysgol means School, or indeed Ladder!
I do love Welsh, not that I can speak it well at all, sadly I detested it in School. There are actually a surprising number of Welsh Speakers where I live in Cardiff, you have to speak Welsh to work in the Media around here, bit of a closed shop.
I’ve arrived in South Wales and earlier visited my friend on Caerphilly mountain who then took me on a tour of some areas in Cardiff that he thinks I should consider. Radyr, etc.
Also looked at some of the new build estates than Barrett, Persimmon, etc are building but they are not very inviting!
I live near Radyr, it's very nice. Lots of really good riding near by too, none of it 'official' but they're actually working towards moving some of the trails from 'tolerated' status to 'official' if nothing else to stop some of the wilder building. Someone unknowingly built a big berm over a Badger set and obviously everyone got upset.
There's a huge housing expansion taking place in the area, which you've seen, the first major house building project for decades in Cardiff, as much as it's disruptive and will bring more traffic etc, people need somewhere to live and at least it's not going to be completely featureless suburban blandness. Not my cup of tea though.
I live in Swansea, it's fine and the surrounding area is lovely. There are some areas that you wouldn't to live in but it's not like England is some ****ing utopia.
I worked across South Wales in the mid/late 1990's, and then biked in most places from the late 2000's.
All the factories I worked at in the 90's have gone (Aluminium). It felt grim then, and felt grim last time I was there (w/e in Merthyr pre-Covid).
I'm from a post-industrial northern area plus worked in the East just after the Wall came down. I know what grim feels like.
I work in an Aluminium factory in Neath, it's fine.
There is some bollox in this thread. Generalisation and stereotyping and prejudice. stuff that if you said it about other places or groups of people you’d not get away with it. Why do people feel they can say it about Wales.
I say this as a Welsh person who lives in S Wales. I have lived in N Wales too.
Wales is great. Loads of people come to live here because it’s great. There are some crap places and crap things going on but that’s the same everywhere.
There are places I would rather not live but most of the reasons I’d rather not live there are in my head and linked to my prejudices, tastes and the way I perceive a place to feel. You may feel differently. I live in a place that I like (except for the cars) You may not like it.
I wasn't going to contribute to this thread but then I felt compelled to share my views because this is the internet!
I was 10 when my parents up sticks from Surrey and moved us to Cardigan, West Wales, in 1988.
I 'king loved my childhood! Near beautiful beaches and great countryside - loads better than Walton-on-Thames! I sounded like a proper Saes (English) too with my accent and no one gave a sh!t.
Most of my school mates were also English immigrants like me and most are desperate to return now they have families. Most are making it happen too.
I left Wales in 1996 to go to uni but I settled in Cardiff in 2000.
It was brilliant. Great night life and great, accessible, countryside and great people.
I then moved around a bit, spending time in America (San Fran), back to the SE England, again to Cardiff and, finally, settling back in the Cardigan area 9 years ago.
Wales is awesome. (Mostly) relatively affordable with great countryside and beaches.
I've enjoyed nights out in Cardiff (obviously), Swansea, Blackwood, Neath, Newport, Bridgend etc etc and I even lived in Cwmcarn for nearly two weeks and loved every bit.
I was based in factories in Swansea, Pontypool and Resolven over nearly 13 years and the people were as "normal" as any where.
Of course there's some crap here, just like everywhere, so do your homework prioritising what you want/need/like and make it happen.
Ysbyty means Hospital. George Thomas in Cardiff at least was rebranded, something to do with old George being a wrong un back in the 70s
I met him in about 1985, and he seemed a decent person, but then I was only a politically naive 17 year old, and I certainly wouldn't agree with his views today. Wiki reveals rather more - I'm surprised that he's been disgraced enough that 'his' buildings need rebranding? (assuming we're talking about the Speaker of the House of Commons.)
There is some bollox in this thread.
Oh definitely.
Generalisation and stereotyping and prejudice. stuff that if you said it about other places or groups of people you’d not get away with it. Why do people feel they can say it about Wales.
Makes a change from sheep shagging jokes, I guess.
I live in Swansea, it’s fine and the surrounding area is lovely. There are some areas that you wouldn’t to live in but it’s not like England is some **** utopia.
Same here. I'm half a mile from the beach, about the same from the nice area where Dylan Thomas grew up, and the same from the area where the riot happened a few weeks ago! I can ride from the door to a huge variety of proper MTB trails, surf or paddleboard when I have an hour spare, walk up hills and mountains... I'd rather live here than in Dagenham. 😀
at least it’s not going to be completely featureless suburban blandness.
I hope it's better on your side but over here it's either expensive or pretty bland and rubbish looking - St Ederyn's. They're building a school though and there are three or four retail/food units, but they've been empty for ages. I hope they fill them as we really need more than token offerings in places like these.
settling back in the Cardigan area 9 years ago.
I'd like to move out of Cardiff, since I am a rural person at heart (although Cardiff's pretty good as a city); and Cardigan would be a great choice if it weren't so far from my parents. As it is, I'd go to Abergavenny for the train links, or if I end up not doing the business travel I'd go for Builth Wells or Llandrindod Wells. Mainly the latter because there are loads of massive fantastic houses for very cheap, but I think this might be related to the rumours that it's a bit rough...
Only ever met nice people in Wales. Love it. My wife is Welsh so yeah, we spend a lot of time down in the South (she's from Bridgend).
I'd happily move there but I can't remain in the job I have and remote work to that extent. Maybe in the future things may change but it becomes a bigger/more disruptive move as the kids grow.
A friend of my Dad has some beef with some nationalists back in the late 80's, he owned a hotel near Pwllheli...I was a kid so not sure what the deal was.
Anyway, Wales is ace.
Makes a change from sheep shagging jokes, I guess.
Or jokes about unpronouncable names. Ha ****ing ha, how long did it take you to come up with that sparkling wit? The names are all perfectly pronounceable, you're just ignorant.
Interesting that the people who seem to think Welsh people hate English people are the first ones onto a thread about Wales to say how rough it is. Maybe some introspection is required?
@molgrips - My mum is still here, just up the road, sadly my wonderful/awesome dad died nearly 3 years ago (but that's probably for another STW thread) and my MIL lives almost opposite! FIL lives in Scotland so we've ticked the aging parents box as best we can and get to live in a wonderful part of the world.
I've always liked the look of Abergavenny, not so sure about Builth Wells or Llandrindod Wells, but, like you say, Cardiff is a pretty good compromise if you're a rural person at heart.
We treat Cardiff like a holiday destination now, visiting my bro in Llanishen and friends in Cefn Mably, and it's great as a tourist!
Builth always felt nice to me. Small but big enough for the shops you'd need, a nice river and great biking.
Moving to Wales is a great idea - the biking here is awesome, and generally, the people are really friendly. That said some valleys towns are really rough and will hate you just because you're English.
Your best bet is to actually go there, walk around, make sure you can actually go into the local pub without getting into an argy-bargy then move for better biking!
they’re actually working towards moving some of the trails from ‘tolerated’ status to ‘official’ if nothing else to stop some of the wilder building.
Are they really? That's awesome news!
Or jokes about unpronouncable names. Ha **** ha, how long did it take you to come up with that sparkling wit? The names are all perfectly pronounceable, you’re just ignorant.
I worked in the food industry years ago, and was at an industry exhibition in London. Two reps from some company were attempting to sell something to me, but they did it with some blokey 'where's your sheep, eh Taff?' weirdness. Obviously, they got no business from my company. In the years I spent living in England I encountered sheep jokes with such boring frequency that I probably started to get rather aggressive about it.
I can sort of understand the place names thing. Welsh place names can be difficult even when you live here - my wife queries the way I pronounce local place names and she was only born 10 miles away. Mind you the person taking the mick about it is probably Sinjun from Lemster...
I went to school in Bridgend and now live on Gower. Coincidentally I went to Bridgend last week for the first time since my mother died 11 years ago.....god it seemed small and run down.
If I didn't windsurf and surf I'd probably choose Abergavenny as a home....nice size, stuff going on, good biking in easy reach.
Can't see myself moving...just finished our new build, got great beaches in easy reach, can bike from my door, or drive 45 mins to Brechfa or Afan.
I live in North Cardiff. I play in a band and have spent dozens of Friday nights in various valley towns with less than stellar reputations. Fights happen occasionally but despite my very English accent I've never personally had any trouble.
The valleys are beautiful and the riding is fantastic, with tonnes of off piste digging.
Having said that the deprivation is real and spending some time in your preferred area to get a feel for the local pubs/community is sensible.
Also it's really cheap.
Good luck!
Ysbyty means Hospital. George Thomas in Cardiff at least was rebranded, something to do with old George being a wrong un back in the 70s
I met him in about 1985, and he seemed a decent person, but then I was only a politically naive 17 year old, and I certainly wouldn’t agree with his views today. Wiki reveals rather more – I’m surprised that he’s been disgraced enough that ‘his’ buildings need rebranding? (assuming we’re talking about the Speaker of the House of Commons.)
BBC.CO.UK The valleys are beautiful and the riding is fantastic
Parts are beautiful, but I agree the riding is immense, especially if you like technical gnar. That stuff is springing up everywhere. Basically every bit of forestry or natural woodland is now threaded with homemade trails and it's amazing.
Welsh place names can be difficult
No more difficult than any other language. It's not that they get the names wrong, it's that they take the piss. The issue is a combination of monoglot Anglophones and fashionable derision for anything to do with Wales. People don't seem to go to France or Spain and mock the place names and language that much.
I hope it’s better on your side but over here it’s either expensive or pretty bland and rubbish looking – St Ederyn’s. They’re building a school though and there are three or four retail/food units, but they’ve been empty for ages. I hope they fill them as we really need more than token offerings in places like these.
They're building, or have sort of built a few ponds and stuff like that and some open spaces, nothing earth shattering.
*crosses New Zealand off the list*