What I was trying to say is that the prospect of an early death might seem benign when you are all fit and healthy running about, but when it's actually happening to you your point of view might be somewhat different - then it'll be too late.
I know what your trying to say but this is something that happened.
Two of my colleagues have died of cancer in the last 5 years, both their 40s. Dying on a motorcycle in your 50s is better.
Now, not dying on a motorcycle, or not dying of cancer and living forever would be better still, but that's a wish, not a comment on an actual event.
So we can conclude that having a motorcycle crash and not dying is better than having one and dying?
There is perhaps a valid question as to whether or not the govt should make us wear helmets or not. Actually not wearing one is daft though, to be fair.
I think we can conclude that everyone dies. The question is whether one death is better than another and whether how long you live matters.
He was an American and a knob - what more do we need to know?
BTW just come back from 2 weeks in India; never mind no helmet, most of them there ride in flip-flops too.
HALE is the important thing surely
If you enjoy something, you'd think you'd want to do as much of it as possible before you died. So from that point of view a longer life would be better for most of us.
If you enjoy something, you'd think you'd want to do as much of it as possible before you died. So from that point of view a longer life would be better for most of us
You're talking future-tense not past tense again.
Living forever would be even better.
Yes.. I know he has already died.. but I'm trying to move on from that as a discussion of the issues that his death raises.
b r - Member
He was an American and a knob - what more do we need to know?BTW just come back from 2 weeks in India; never mind no helmet, most of them there ride in flip-flops too.
A lot of the holiday makers (and locals) over in Greece were like that as well.
jeezus wept - some guy has died and so far he has been called a moron and a nob purely because he is American and wasn't wearing a helmet.
Some of you guys need a reality check and some sense of basic decency 🙄
[i]If you enjoy something, you'd think you'd want to do as much of it as possible before you died.[/i]
Of if you enjoy something, you'd think you'd want to enjoy it in its purest, most undiluted form, even if that carried a very slightly greater risk. Ask a TT rider whether they should stick to the speed limit because it's safer.
If wearing a helmet doesn't detract from your enjoyment even slightly then the decision is simple: more is better. If it does, then you're into value estimation and risk assessment and it's far from a straightforward calculation.
[i]jeezus wept - some guy has died and so far he has been called a moron and a nob purely because he is American and wasn't wearing a helmet[/i]
I've ridden m/c on the road for 30 years - anyone who thinks its safe to ride without a helmet is a knob IMO. I could never understand the 'hero-status' of Fred Hill when I was younger either.
http://wadmag.mag-uk.org/fred_hill.htm
It IS moronic not to wear a helmet whilst riding a motorbike. It's in the same league of stupidity as driving without a seat-belt or skydiving without a parachute.
Are some of you stupid enough to think that wearing a helmet will make you invulnerable to head injury and/or death? It may reduce the injury you suffer in a crash that is all. Could be the difference between dead or alive or just the difference in how much of a mess your wrecked body is to clear up & shovel into a coffin. Same goes for wearing leathers & other safety gear.
It is a matter of risk & everyone has their own idea of what is acceptable. Should you wear a helmet or seatbelt? Should motorcycling be allowed? Cars aren't risk free, should everyone be on trains.....I guess you just pick where you want to draw the line then tell everyone who thinks differently that they are wrong.
Its not cut and dry is it though. If you were riding around town at low speeds the extra viability and peripheral vision might be better for avoiding an accident in the first place.
I don't ride without helmet, gloves and leathers but sometimes I do think I would be more comfortable and less distracted if I was not.
You wouldn't, would you. It's the thin end of the wedge on various levels of government control. Maybe you will realise when it is compulsory to wear full leathers (including air bags) at all times, BHP is restricted to 25, etc.etc. Maybe we should cut to the chase and ban motorbikes althogether.....and while we're at it, lots of people are killed cycling and climbing and swimming and driving!I could never understand the 'hero-status' of Fred Hill when I was younger either.
Skydiving without a parachute is as stupid as riding a bike without a helmet......yeah right 🙄
If you protest about having to wear a helmet and you die doing this with a head injury what would you expect people to say?
Told you so may be distasteful but it is also accurate and it kind of proved the point as to why people think you should wear one.
Nothing is risk free but somethings massively increase your risk.
Woody people are suggesting you wear a helmet on a motorbike no one is suggesting a ban. Why not deal with that issue rather than some highly unlikely outcome of enforced helmet wearing
[i]It IS moronic not to wear a helmet whilst riding a motorbike. It's in the same league of stupidity as driving without a seat-belt or skydiving without a parachute.[/i]
If you're suggesting that those things are equally "stupid" then you clearly have no understanding of risk whatsoever.
Skydiving without a parachute is as stupid as riding a bike without a helmet......yeah right
If you're suggesting that those things are equally "stupid" then you clearly have no understanding of risk whatsoever.
i said the "same league" of stupidity, people, not that they equate. Do try and keep up! 😉
[i]i said the "same league" of stupidity, people, not that they equate. Do try and keep up![/i]
If you want to get into pedantics over semantics I'll rephrase my post so that it's clear: If you're suggesting that those things are [i]in the same league of stupidity[/i] then you clearly have no understanding of risk whatsoever.
Clear now?
That is my point junkyard and reason why I jumped on the comment about the guy being a moron/knob.Nothing is risk free but somethings massively increase your risk.
For all we know he could have been riding/cruising at the same speed as someone on a pushbike. There is a vast difference between someone cruising down a boulevard at 30mph and someone on a sports bike pushing it on the 'twisties'.
I take it all those posting that he is a moron/knob would be in favour of a compulsory helmet law for pushbikes?
Same league... your statement is up there vying for the stupidity title at the moment.
If you protest about having to wear a helmet and you die doing this with a head injury what would you expect people to say?
I'd expect opinion to be divided. Some will say it is your own fault for not wearing a helmet, some will say at least you were doing something you enjoyed and others will say what a shame, condolences to your family.
I will mostly be trying to avoid coming off in the first place helmet or not.
cant speak for everyone but I would do it ...mainly to annoy TJ 😉I take it all those posting that he is a moron/knob would be in favour of a compulsory helmet law for pushbikes?
It'll never get through parliament Junkyard 😉
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If you want to get into pedantics over semantics I'll rephrase my post so that it's clear: If you're suggesting that those things are in the same league of stupidity then you clearly have no understanding of risk whatsoever.Clear now?
Not really. I would say they are all stupid things to do. Some more stupid than others but all pretty stupid nevertheless. How do I then not understand risk?
If you protest about having to wear a helmet and you die doing this with a head injury what would you expect people to say?
If you go on a ride to support the wearing of helmets whilst wearing a helmet, and you die doing this with a head injury what would you expect people to say?
If you go on a ride to support the wearing of helmets whilst wearing a helmet, and you die doing this with a head injury what would you expect people to say?
Not quite the same thing tho CM. Someone doing that would be campaigning for completely different reasons than the poor deceased.
EDIT Ah bugger my quotes are now stuffed up as per TJ's thread.. shoulda kept my mouth shut.
Always sad when someone dies like this, however, I recently lost a much loved nephew in a M/c accident....all properly kitted up and everything, but thats not the point. We used to have the conversation about risk and the dangers, (I stopped riding after a spell at speedway which woke me up to my own mortality, so have a slightly negative view of it all). His response was along the lines of "I want to go with my boots on doing what I enjoy". All fair enough, apart from the fact he was out of it afterwards. His mum Dad, fiance and family were the ones left suffering and still are. So frankly IMHO people who are careless of their own safety are at best unthinking, and at worst selfish.
It'll never get through parliament Junkyard
Well, Cameron seems o have gone over the top with safety there. Ican't see how that big yellow seat belt will do him any good at all!
+1 BB.
b r - MemberHe was an American and a knob - what more do we need to know?
Well I'd like to know how you justify that offensive bigotry.
No hang on ......... I don't really want to know.
I blame the teachers for going on strike.
Has anyone blamed Thatcher yet?
I think it is fair to point out that his campaigning appears to have been a little counter productive.
Something I heard a long time ago... Anyone who doubts whether helmets are a good idea for bikers, has never been hit in the face by a bumblebee while riding.
OTOH, the doctors said a helmet would have saved his life, right? My doctors told me my helmet definately saved my life when I had my big pushbike crash, I wasn't wearing it though.
One less person to worry about contaminating the gene pool.
Harsh? Perhaps.
Maybe a blessing in disguise? Perhaps.
And so we get to page three and the tIts are out 🙄
Suprised it took that long for that comment tbh
cracking thread. Reminds me how in the 70's nobody wore seat belts, child seats were unheard of and a quick one afore ye go was accepted. Where will be be in another 40 years? All clad in bubble wrap?
All clad in bubble wrap?
Motorcyclists will be clad in explosive hard foam that turns them into a giant crunchie style ball before impact.
Are some of you stupid enough to think that wearing a helmet will make you invulnerable to head injury and/or death? It may reduce the injury you suffer in a crash that is all. Could be the difference between dead or alive or just the difference in how much of a mess your wrecked body is to clear up & shovel into a coffin. Same goes for wearing leathers & other safety gear.
For all we know he could have been riding/cruising at the same speed as someone on a pushbike. There is a vast difference between someone cruising down a boulevard at 30mph and someone on a sports bike pushing it on the 'twisties'.
My brother can give you a graphic personal description of the difference it makes having a lid on when coming off a bike at 20mph after clipping the rear wing of a slow moving car. There would have been no problem at all, if it hadn't been for the Alfa Romeo travelling at 50mph in the other direction. Bruising to the brain, facial injuries, smashed collar bone, broken shoulder blade, broken ribs, collapsed lung, two fractured neck vertebra, two back vertebra. Nearly died at the scene, only stabilised by his fiancé who was on her bike behind, nearly lost his right arm on the Frenchay operating table, a grafted blood vessel and nerves saved that. He's back at work two years later and riding his old bike. His 1200 Bandit sadly wasn't reparable.
Personally, I think riding without a lid is dumb, just the thought of a bumblebee or a may bug in the face at 70mph puts me off riding bareheaded, and having come off my SS at walking pace and slamming my head on the Tarmac the fact I was wearing my Xen clearly saved me from a serious scalp wound, judging from the deep gouges on the edge of the visor.
Regarding the gentleman in the States, I like to think of him as being an example of evolution in action.
Are some of you stupid enough to think that wearing a helmet will make you invulnerable to head injury and/or death? It may reduce the injury you suffer in a crash that is all. Could be the difference between dead or alive or just the difference in how much of a mess your wrecked body is to clear up & shovel into a coffin. Same goes for wearing leathers & other safety gear.
For all we know he could have been riding/cruising at the same speed as someone on a pushbike. There is a vast difference between someone cruising down a boulevard at 30mph and someone on a sports bike pushing it on the 'twisties'.
My brother can give you a graphic personal description of the difference it makes having a lid on when coming off a bike at 20mph after clipping the rear wing of a slow moving car. There would have been no problem at all, if it hadn't been for the Alfa Romeo travelling at 50mph in the other direction. Bruising to the brain, facial injuries, smashed collar bone, broken shoulder blade, broken ribs, collapsed lung, two fractured neck vertebra, two back vertebra. Nearly died at the scene, only stabilised by his fiancé who was on her bike behind, nearly lost his right arm on the Frenchay operating table, a grafted blood vessel and nerves saved that. He's back at work two years later and riding his old bike. His 1200 Bandit sadly wasn't reparable.
Personally, I think riding without a lid is dumb, just the thought of a bumblebee or a may bug in the face at 70mph puts me off riding bareheaded, and having come off my SS at walking pace and slamming my head on the Tarmac the fact I was wearing my Xen clearly saved me from a serious scalp wound, judging from the deep gouges on the edge of the visor.
Regarding the gentleman in the States, I like to think of him as being an example of evolution in action.
TJ will be along soon to tell you how not wearing his helmet is safer....
