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has anyone blown the house down yet, or is it all still huffing and puffing 😉
Why is anyone surprised about this, why do people get so hot'n'bothered, and ultimately WGAFF....
..the rich and priveleged (both elected and unelected) have, do and always will run the country, control the flow of capital and evade their financial liabilities - in part (quite a big part) because the un-rich are too indolent to do anything about it.
They may bash one off on the internet, form a Farcebook group, call some names but don't actually [i]do[/i] anything about it because , let's face it, they're pretty comfortable really - housed, fed, provided with gadgets and toys, freedom to whinge etc etc................
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk_politics/8544547.stm ]Mandy has tried and failed. Still all hot air.[/url]
It does amuse me people calling me a labour supporter. I am not as pointed out many times. I have no time for the self serving hypocrites of any colour of party
As for evidence -its clearly all there if you want to see it and much of it I have put further up in this thread.
Of course the tory fanbois here don't want to see you corrupt and venal this man is.
The investigation in bearwood services, his attitude infront of the information commissioner. the fact he clearly misled over his tax status. etc etc.
he will be found out but the tories hope not until after the election.
the stench of corruption is clear Just read the papers.
Plnty more if you want to open your eyes but here is a link to some of the skulduggery http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/01/lord-ashcroft-tax-conservatives
the stench of corruption is clear
Of course it is. But what's also clear is that you only ever come on here and rant on about the Tory flavour.
Most people, me included, don't care whether these people are UK domiciled or not. Ok lying about it isn't a good sign, but I'm more interested in the sort of lies that take us into illegal wars of agression.
Non-doms and donations:
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Well said epicsteve.
TJ you make good points & argue them well but you are soooo one-sided its unreal, any chance of being a little more balanced? Fine if you dont want to but at least admit your bias. I would love to hear you argue so eloquently & with equal fervour about Labour wrong-doings but I guess flying pigs are more likely..
:wink:The point is that he is part of the legislator of this country and he claims to not really live her just to dwell here for a long time. I find it odd that essentially someone who considers themselves a foreign national - non dom- who lives here long term * can become deputy chair of a political party and exert influence over an election and policies in a country he does not consider to be his own.
For balance I agree that is unacceptable that Non Doms donate to any party but is on far larger scale when that person is the Deputy Chairman of your party and has not answered the question directly for 10 years and then only because of a Freedon of Information request... he has been less than honest on this issue for over a decade
*it was officially confirmed that the interpretation in the first undertaking of the words 'permanent residence' was to be that of 'a long term resident' of the UK.
EDIT: Does TJ defend the labour party over the Iraq war - weapons iof mass destruction dossier? He is equally clear when the Labour party have lied/decieved /manioulated information. Have you people banged your heads and got rotational injuries from your helmets that are affecting your memories
So, to sum up - Ashcroft is non-domiciled. Under this arrangement, he is legally obliged to pay taxes on his UK earnings. He pays taxes on his UK earnings, but a lot of people are upset because he hasn't responded, until now, to a lot of hypocritical badgering from the Labour party (which gets [i]exactly[/i] the same sort of donations from other perfectly legal non-doms) and it's supporters for confirmation of this.
Meanwhile, the BBC continues to pursue this non-story as if it's the scandal of the century, even going to the length of having a reporter outside number 10 this morning say: "Lord Ashcroft doesn't pay his UK taxes"...
I've long since regarded the BBC as propaganda wing of the NuLabour project.
PS: For clarity, there is a difference between "resident" and "Domiciled" according to law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domicile_%28law%29
You might say that Ashcroft is playing the game to his advantage, but so what? That's politics and the human condition.
Recognise that and you're safe from turning into an ideologue who spends his time howling at the moon because it won't turn into cheese for him. 😉
It strikes me Labour are having a go at Ashcroft in the hope he may take a step back from the Tory party,thus removing a huge source of revenue,which will be kind of handy in the next twelve or so months.
It is funny how labour are so keen to demand answers in the public interest,but so keen to avoid giving them.
Junkyard;he is equally clear when the Labour party have lied etc,etc.No he isn't.
i think the issue is that hague told blair when ashcroft was given his lordship that he would become a uk resident and that that would be worth 10million a year to the uk in taxes (so i read in that staunch tory rag the guardian)
as said before if you sit in the lords, are chairman of one of our 2 parties in this thriving healthy democracy then at least have the decency, patriotism-call it what you like, to pay taxes here
mandy bleating on is hypocritical especially if torry boy guidos graph is to be believed
the stench of corruption from the pig palace of westminster is overwhelming
do you reckon may day will see some big riots this year??
im off to start designing my placards and molotovs
TJ _ Hate to say this but the Guardian is just as capable of poor journalism as the Daily Mail, they have determined permanent residence for this article equals domicile which it does not. (I could provide chapter and verse on this but quantum of tax knowledge is generally inversely proportional to attractiveness to the opposite (or same if desired ) sex.)
As I said earlier, choosing to be mislead (especially when the details of the deal were confidential) are just political positioning. Still waiting for sources as requested, remarkable how long it is taking to find them considering how prevalent they are.
Junkyard - there are plenty of non dom political strategists in both the Labour camp and the Tory camp, I think Labour use a load of Clinton advisers and the Tories used a Aussie guy for the last election. These guys will have a big influence on the election as well. I don't see a problem with this and I don't see a big difference between the party's non dom donors ("your non dom donor is worse than mine" is all a bit reminiscent of the playground). Ashcroft is hated by the other parties because what he is doing is effective and the vitriol directed at him appears to bear this out.
TJ can defend himself but IMHO he does berate the labour party for their lies over Iraq.
I am genuinely surprised that most of the people on here dont actually care that the deputy leader of the Conservative party is essentially a foreign national who is staying here for a bit. At least when the people in Brussels make laws for us they will live by them rather than pi55 off back to the place they call home. TBH I would not even let him vote here let alone stand for office.
as the wiki links states
A person can remain domiciled in a jurisdiction even after they have left it, if they have maintained sufficient links with that jurisdiction or have not displayed an intention to leave permanently.
That is what Ashcroft is doing with Belize rather than The UK...he has not left there permanently he is just here for a bit. If you want to stand for political office in this country have the decency to actually live here - seems reasonable surely? Even Dave agress with this principle.
Mefty the parties can use and pay who they please to advise them but to have them as Deputy Chair is different. Are you really claiming he has no more influence over the Tory party than say someone who works for them as a paid adviser? Surely the Deputy Chairman position has some power and influence? Also these people are doing their job Ashcroft is donating money resources etc
Junkyard - He is not deputy leader, William Hague is I think, he is vice chairman, the Chairman of the Party is basically responsible for the administration and running of the party machine as opposed to having a policy role(i.e. Central Office staff, constituency agents etc.). The Chairman of the Party in power will normally have a seat in Cabinet as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. The Vice Chairman I believe is also involved in running the party machine. The difference between Ashcroft and other party's donors seems to be he retains more control over how the machine spends his gifts. His position gives him no formal policy role. So no, I don't see any difference between non dom donors, if he decides to retain a measure of control over his gifts, I don't see a problem, it is no different to a hired hand from abroad having a say.
come on mefty, you say he has no more influence than other donors but retains an influence over how his money is spent
surely thats a contradiction
Did I? Can't see where, but to clarify, my logic is if it is ok to have a foreign strategist, which I think it is, and a non dom donor (which I am not saying it is, just that everyone has them too) then I don't see a difference between that and the roles being combined in the form of one person i.e. Ashcroft.
Hence my view that this is nothing sinister, just a playground argument over whose non dom donor is worse.
The Mash, as usual, nails it...
hahah love the mash.
especially the last two paras! 😉
I've just read that too, thought of this thread but Woppit beat me to it by 18 minutes!
Mefty your claim that the Deputy chairman [sorry I meant that not deputy leader which is William Hague - do you recall his answer to Paxman on Ashcroft?]does nothing and has no influence is just silly. Who is leading the campaign in marginals that may win them the election - he wil have no power do you really beleive that?
From his own website
In December 2005, I was appointed Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party by David Cameron, with special responsibility for the Target Seat campaign and opinion research polling and I am Treasurer of the International Democrat Union.
Over the past two decades I have gathered over 160 Victoria Cross medals, the largest collection in the World. I am passionate in my belief that [b]our country [/b]owes an enormous debt of gratitude to these heroes of courage
My bold - that would be the country he does not live in he is describing there.
Maybe he will come and live here when his Tory mates are in charge again? It would be v costly for him to move here while Gordon the grabber is still in no 10. Of course he will expect influence in return for his money.He already has a lordship,why is he any dirtier than the red rosette wearing eq? Or is it because he has the potential to make a difference to the Cons election results that the labour press office/sorry bbc, are crying foul. Labour are starting to look like a shower of desperate bullies.
I had the luck to leave school at about the same time Thatcher decided the abandon Scotland and use it as an experemental area for new taxes.Even that is starting to seem no worse than the last 10 years of Labour.
Is it true that Ashcroft purchased the original cheque that Brown bounced when he was a youngster? Sure I read somewhere that he has it framed in his bog.
im not sure how the 'righties' on here see this as a bbc/ guardian led attack
its reported on the times and telegraph front page slightly different slant but all repeating the same info
of course its a smear by labour,
but there is a general electionon on the way! you may have noticed nastiness flying about from all sides; gordon brown beats up old ladies, mandy is spawn of the devil, osborne is thicker than dermot oleary, david cameron used poor people for toast racks at eton etc etc
Kimbers;is none of that true? 😯
Again still surprised you are all so right wing that you are turning a blind eye to a tax avoiding foreigner having new found liberal tolerance to a pikey not paying tax ?
He doesn't avoid paying tax. He pays tax on his UK earnings, or perhaps you didn't read that bit...
He doesn't pay tax in this country on his overseas earnings because he is not classed as a "resident", or perhaps you didn't read that bit either...
I don't think I did say that - I did say he had no formal policy role (which I think would be inappropriate) but has a role in the party machine as described in your post and on his website. I just don't see the difference between a non dom Labour peer donor, the use of foreign strategists and Ashcroft. Both parties are in a similar positions, Lord Paul's money or one of their foreign strategists could win the election for Labour, who knows? I just don't see a big difference between the parties on this.
Mr W - domiciled actually.
Mr W - I thought you were either UK resident or non-UK resident for tax purposes; so you pay the tax on your earnings in your country of residence. Let me guess now his UK earnings were pennies whilst his non-UK earnings were millions ❗
Or at least that's what the IR (in the US and UK) told me.
Thank you junkyard. I just don't need to shout about labour wrongdooings as there are plenty on here to do so
mefty - Member............ I just don't see the difference between a non dom Labour peer donor, the use of foreign strategists and Ashcroft. Both parties are in a similar positions, Lord Paul's money or one of their foreign strategists could win the election for Labour, who knows? I just don't see a big difference between the parties on this.
The difference is the deceit. I am amazed you cannot see this nor the huge influence Ashcroft has. Non so blind as those that cannot see?
Source? Link?
I'll bet that there isn't a single comrade or fellow-traveller on here who is moaning and bitching about Ashcroft that pays as much tax as he does in the UK.
If you want to whine about him - post up how much income tax and NI YOU paid last year.
I bet there's plenty who pay a higher percentage of their income though.
FFS, so a politician lied; is it news?
weapons of mass destruction, anyone?
what deceit TJ? - come on, you're really labouring whatever point it is you're trying to get across.
You have Labour non-doms donating more than Ashcroft.
You have Labour non-dom donors actively lobbying the incumbent government for favour
yet you are trying to make out that there's something utterly heinous in the vice chairman (the money and admin man) of a political party only paying tax on his UK earnings rather than his international income. he has not broken the law but you seem to think that by screeching loud enough that he really has. If you cant accept that he's done nothing illegal, than at least be honest and confess that you're upset simply because he's bank rolling the tory machine and that youve misread his statements on his tax status rather than this faux outrage at some imagined evilness.
He doesn't avoid paying tax. He pays tax on his UK earnings, or perhaps you didn't read that bit...
He doesn't pay tax in this country on his overseas earnings because he is not classed as a "resident", or perhaps you didn't read that bit either
Yes I think we all understand what non dom means. However if he delcared everything here he would be worse off therefore he is clearly AVOIDING tax. Do you think his very expensive accountants went to all that trouble and it did not help him avoid paying any tax ...he is not as dumb as you.
No need ot suggest I am not reading iwhen in realoity you are not thinking.
Clearly he avoids tax what other motive is there at work here?
stoner +1
>clearly AVOIDING tax
Legally, as thousands of people do in this country.
I avoid tax by receiving an allowance for the miles I cycle in the course of my business. Am I to be strung up next to Lord A?
Junkyard- please call up the inland revenue and ask them if tax avoidance is illegal.
I also avoided tax by taking part in the C2W scheme and now have a nice bike paid for tax free 🙂
I dont know how you can live with yourself allthepies.
Think of all those nurses in scotland that are facing a pay cut in light of your seflish tax planning.
Stoner +2.
Stoner - Memberwhat deceit TJ? - come on, you're really labouring whatever point it is you're trying to get across.
come on - are you that thick? This is the two main planks of deceit
He said he would be domiciled and pay tax in the UK - he has not and it took an investigation by the information commissioner ( which he attempted to thwart) to find this out. Yes there may be weasel words to get him off on a technicality but clearly he mislead not only the parliament but also his own party and the public at large
He uses a shell company to donate to the tory party. Under investigation at the moment (that he is also trying to block) This company has published reports showing only one client and £300 000 of income but has donated £5 000 000 to the tories.
Then you should look at his corruption in Belieze.