[Closed] More Religion on the Beeb

Having quickly skimmed through the thread, I feel that it’s important to point out that it seems that Mr Woppit doesn’t seem to have resorted to a single ad hom, whereas ultra right-on Molgrips, has. It’s weird how people are accusing people of being intolerant and nasty, by actually BEING intolerant and nasty. Damn atheists, eh?

Which is more offensive?

I wasn't aware that it was a competition.

It's ok to be offensive to someone because someone (probably someone else entirely even) was more offensive? I thought we were supposed to be the logical ones.

I do take your point, and would possibly agree if we're talking about shouty evangelists, but we're really not.

Which is where use of language is super important.

Combative phrases and language turn it into a battle rather than a considered or respectful debate, and from that point onwards, the value of the discussion is lost.

Precisely.

The pot calling kettle black routine from the more fanatical atheists doesn't inspire me to want to engage and discuss. One of my first lessons here. Which I find sad.

I'm sad about that too. As we've discussed it just kills discussion stone dead and makes people entrenched. "I called him an idiot and he changed his mind" said no-one, ever.

Still, we are one vocal atheist down at the moment it seems.

Cougar - Moderator

Which is more offensive?

I wasn't aware that it was a competition.

It's ok to be offensive to someone because someone (probably someone else entirely even) was more offensive? I thought we were supposed to be the logical ones.

I do take your point, and would possibly agree if we're talking about shouty evangelists, but we're really not.

Valid, allow me to rephrase - why be so considerate of the feelings of people who ( in some instances) will actually dismiss your very life as void for not believing their doctrine? Why tippy toe around the feelings of people who categorise you as subhuman?

Position a) You and everyone you love will suffer intense never ending pain burning in hell if you don't subscribe to my particular interpretation of a book that is the word of god.

Position b) You are stupid if you believe postion a.

Which is more offensive?

Not entirely sure the Sikh's, Hindu's, Buddhist's, Taoist's et al subscribe to a fiery eternity.

Good to see the ignorant have all coalesced again.

why be so considerate of the feelings of people who ( in some instances) will actually dismiss your very life as void for not believing their doctrine?

But here's where it gets interesting...... As per my earlier post, most people who have religious beliefs, normal people not nutters, are perfectly capable of being respectful, loving, caring for and tolerant of their fellow man/woman who has different or no beliefs. Some even settle down with them.

There's only a tiny, tiny proportion on both religious and non religious sides of the fence who take entrenched and intolerant views. The rest of us use the simple dick/not a dick metric to our interactions and view religious belief or otherwise as just another part of the rich tapestry that makes each person different.

So then who are you to tell me how to live my life? If you don't live your life by the religious teachings of your holy book you're little better than an atheist. You've just attached religious terminology to the basic human morality any atheist (or any normal human) would follow.

The rest of us use the simple dick/not a dick metric to our interactions

This, +1 Dawkins

I love a sensible debate, but dicks get trolled.

So then who are you to tell me how to live my life?

Has that actually happened?

Cougar - Moderator

So then who are you to tell me how to live my life?

Has that actually happened?

Many, many times. But even if it hadn't literally happened in one on one interaction there would still be the belief or inference that irreligious living was wrong.

Many, many times.

andyrm has?

there would still be the belief or inference that irreligious living was wrong.

How is that any different to the belief or inference that every religious living was wrong?

I'm a comitted atheist of 30 years or more

Commitment to not believing? I’m an Aethiest and it has taken precisely zero commitment. I don’t like 9/10th of the BBC output, but the other 1/10th is what appeals. Isn’t that the the point of it, tohave a large array of programming? I’m not a fan of religion but don’t mind others believing. I have the exact same feelings towards football

Cougar - Moderator

Many, many times.

andyrm has?

No, of course he specifically hasn't because he's lapsed. His views are even less valid than that of an atheist because he's aware of the scriptures but chooses to ignore them. There is a super special level of hell reserved just for him.

How is that any different to the belief or inference that every religious living was wrong?

It's wrong when you use the teachings of fictional characters to oppress others who believe in different fictional characters or who don't belive in any fictional characters.

No, of course he specifically hasn't

So how does

who are [b]you[/b] to tell me how to live my life?

apply then?

It's wrong when you use the teachings of fictional characters to oppress others who believe in different fictional characters or who don't belive in any fictional characters.

So it's alright for us to oppress them and their beliefs because we believe we're right?

Good to see the ignorant have all coalesced again.

Cougar - Moderator

No, of course he specifically hasn't

So how does

who are you to tell me how to live my life?

apply then?

Jesus Christ Cougar I thought it was obviously not a direct question to the poster, but somewhat rhetorical.

It's wrong when you use the teachings of fictional characters to oppress others who believe in different fictional characters or who don't belive in any fictional characters.

So it's alright for us to oppress them and their beliefs because we believe we're right?

Did I say that? Just because religion says we should stone adulterous women to death and throw gays off cliffs, I don't believe the atheist hand book says we should reciprocate.

Have you lot not get any family you could spend some time with?

Jesus Christ Cougar I thought it was obviously not a direct question to the poster, but somewhat rhetorical.

I know. Point is, you're apparently attributing the behaviour of a minority and applying it to everyone.

Did I say that?

You're complaining about being told what to think and how to act, whilst telling people what to think and how to act.

No, of course he specifically hasn't because he's lapsed. His views are even less valid than that of an atheist because he's aware of the scriptures but chooses to ignore them. There is a super special level of hell reserved just for him.

Blimey. I'd say "lapsed" as in doesn't go to church like my Irish Catholic descendants did, but not necessarily lapsed as in belief.

But just as I can see the law, or the highway code is a good framework but not without it's flaws, so too I can recognise many of the abrahamic books aren't entirely right either.

Thing is, I get the feeling that me trying to bring examples of tolerance and mutual respect are not wanted here as it doesn't fit the black & white agenda that some here seem unable to see past.

Cougar - Moderator

I know. Point is, you're apparently attributing the behaviour of a minority and applying it to everyone.

No, I'm applying the text to everyone.

You're complaining about being told what to think and how to act, whilst telling people what to think and how to act.

I'm not telling anyone how to act - I'm stating that no one's beliefs are beyond criticism.

[quote=Drac ]Have you lot not get any family you could spend some time with?

they are worse than you lot 😉

they are worse than you lot

Holy shit!

No, I'm applying the text to everyone.

I'm not sure as I follow.

I'm not telling anyone how to act - I'm stating that no one's beliefs are beyond criticism.

That's not how it read to me, but fair enough then. On that we are in agreement, I said as much earlier.

My point was really that that statement applies equally to you / us also.

there would still be the belief or inference that irreligious living was wrong.

Yeah, I'm not sure about this point. In fact, I suspect there may well be religious people who think that, just as there are non-religious who think the same about religious.

But the vast majority of folk on both sides, in my experience, live by the 'don't be a dick' principle.

So, I trust that all the logical , right thinking scientific atheists out there will be completely eschewing any trappings of Christmas, be they Christian, Pagan, Roman or otherwise this year?

Can't let yourselves get drawn into any superstitious hocus pocus can you?

You should instead celebrate the winter solstice by lighting a single electric bulb and leaning away from it a 13 degree angle. It's the logical thing to do.

Meanwhile, my imaginary friend is providing mince pies, Bond films and an Xbox.

Which is nice.

Religion sometimes seems to think it has special privilege here. It does not.

😯

So, I trust that all the logical , right thinking scientific atheists out there will be completely eschewing any trappings of Christmas, be they Christian, Pagan, Roman or otherwise this year?

Pretty much TBH, but not through choice.

For most people, I'd hazard that Christmas is Christmas simply [i]because it's Christmas.[/i] The "real meaning of Christmas" in the 21st Century is to spend quality time with family and friends and generally be nice to each other.

Much the same as the 5th of November, I doubt that many people gather round on Bonfire Night to celebrate the thwarting of a plot to blow up Parliament (frankly at the moment I'm starting to think that might not have been a bad thing), rather that it's great fun to burn shit and terrify animals.

Meanwhile, my imaginary friend is providing mince pies, Bond films and an Xbox.

Which is nice.

It really is, I had to buy mine.

Is buying Xboxes Christian or Pagan? I forget. (-:

😯

Well, you can't argue with that.

So, I trust that all the logical , right thinking scientific atheists out there will be completely eschewing any trappings of Christmas, be they Christian, Pagan, Roman or otherwise this year?

Can't let yourselves get drawn into any superstitious hocus pocus can you?

You should instead celebrate the winter solstice by lighting a single electric bulb and leaning away from it a 13 degree angle. It's the logical thing to do.

Meanwhile, my imaginary friend is providing mince pies, Bond films and an Xbox.

Which is nice

Well, you can't argue with that.

CtrlC

CtrlV

CtrlC

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Repeat.

now you have mastered that you can work on the something meaningful to say aspect of debate 😉

You know me better than that, Junky!

Happy Christmas, you miserable old fart! 🙂

Same to you, its must better when you have kids, isn't it.

there is no debate to be had. Woppit's stance and his technique is just the raw truth.

This bit suggests to me that.you still don't understand what I'm trying to say.

He may well be right about God. But there's a nice way of saying it, and a shitty way.

I'm saying don't be an arsehole about it, basically.

The other thing I am saying is that religion is not usually the reason for conflict, it's just another us/them axis.

If you want a considered discussion of this, we can have one. I'd welcome it if I felt like it'd be interesting, informative and good natured. You can refer to one of the previous threads if you like, we've done this before.

Forget Brexit and Trump the beeb has decided it needs to increase spending and coverage of old religous cults.

Proof if needed that the organisation is run by fruitcakes.

How do I opt out?

This was the opening post in case anyone’s forgotten. It’s hardly going to inspire respectful debate is it?

Seems to me it’s simple seeking confirmation and anyone in disagreement is a fruitcake who can go away jerkily

Mmmmm........fruitcake

Commitment to not believing? I’m an Aethiest and it has taken precisely zero commitment.

I was committed to a psychiatric ward in my late teens, messiah complex.

All better now though my child

who can go away jerkily

Moving in mysterious ways?

Either that or a lack of trust in the swear filter

So I open my door to my enemies
And I ask could we wipe the slate clean ?
But they tell me to please go **** myself
You know you just can't win ...

"Lost For Words" Pink Floyd.
Merry Christmas everyone !

I see the accepting of others beliefs has not got too far.

To all those 'active' atheists here;

What are you hoping to achieve by telling people their belief system is stupid and they are idiots?
Do you think that is an effective way of doing it?

Can't let yourselves get drawn into any superstitious hocus pocus can you?

What are you hoping to achieve by telling people their belief system is stupid and they are idiots?

If it weren't for the combined efforts of Cougar, Woppit and Dawkins (CWD), we would be slaughtering each others' children over the correct way to worship a non-existent flying spaghetti monster.
And for all the haters, I'm sure CWD would rather be spending time elsewhere, rather than engaging in non-stop public service on internet forums, shining the light of enlightenment rationality into the darkness of barbarian superstition.
Or maybe not.