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I check where the tip goes these days before I pay it.
SOMETIMES paying cash gets round this.
A waitress told me last week that not only did the restaurant take a portion of the tip but the staff had to make up the difference some way if customers didn't pay the service charge!!!
Top whack prices should equal good wages.
Same as when Blumenthal says he's doesn't make much profit at around £255 + drinks per head.
Bloody hell since when was waiting tables a professional job??? I can't believe these positions in restaurants are salaried.
At that level, it always has been in order to get the best staff. Why, in this country, it's seen as a lower tier job, I'll never know. Your waiting staff are the front line for sales and customer satisfaction, just because they are dealing with food, not IT/cars/whatever where those roles are seen as 'professional' shouldn't matter. Especially at that end of the market.
Same as when Blumenthal says he's doesn't make much profit at around £255 + drinks per head.
I can well believe that, how many people/hours do you think are involved in the production of that meal?
Bloody hell since when was waiting tables a professional job??? I can't believe these positions in restaurants are salaried.- At that level, it always has been in order to get the best staff. Why, in their country, it's seen as a lower tier job, I'll never know. Your waiting staff are the front line for sales and customer satisfaction, just because they are dealing with food, not IT/cars/whatever where those roles are seen as 'professional' shouldn't matter. Especially at that end of the market.
+1. And unless we start to treat it as a 'proper' job then restauranteurs will always get away with at or below minimum wage expecting it to be made out from tips.
As to why anyone would do 50% extra hours for no extra money. In some careers, to get the job done, it's what it takes sometimes. Rightly or wrongly.
In this case it's so you can do your time at a 2* restaurant, get it on your CV so you can then open your own restaurant, and hire your own staff to treat like slaves. It's always been the way, plus ca change.
We don't knock sportspeople who spend hours and hours practising their sport for little / no pay; I don't see this as much different. I'm not defending stealing tips that should be shared, but I will defend the fact that it's long hours. The staff know what the deal is and why they're there instead of doing more set hours at Pizza Hut.
He has paid people below the legal minimum wage.
He lied about the service charge.
No excuses, it's unjustifiable.
He has paid people below the legal minimum wage.
He lied about the service charge.
No excuses, it's unjustifiable.
Correct.
As to why anyone would do 50% extra hours for no extra money. In some careers, to get the job done, it's what it takes sometimes
'Sometimes' is the keyword there. Sometimes isn't every day, every shift. Flexibility is no bad thing but all too often employees are being exploited in salaried jobs.
?I can well believe that, how many people/hours do you think are involved in the production of that meal
His prices have doubled. Not sure his output has.
Not as prolific but Sat Baines employs about 30 staff and he's £110.
I understand the labour involved. I'm just not buying it. I don't have any problem with top flight levels of dining, I just don't expect Sorts Direct levels of business.
In this case it's so you can do your time at a 2* restaurant, get it on your CV so you can then open your own restaurant, and hire your own staff to treat like slaves. It's always been the way, plus ca change.We don't knock sportspeople who spend hours and hours practising their sport for little / no pay; I don't see this as much different. I'm not defending stealing tips that should be shared, but I will defend the fact that it's long hours. The staff know what the deal is and why they're there instead of doing more set hours at Pizza Hut.
Totally agree with you on why the chefs are willing (and happy) to work such long hours - and the potential benefits to their future career.
But I do think we should support their efforts to get paid fairly for their hard work.
Hopefully they get fed at work, 'cos £19k isn't gonna stretch far working in central London - and I'd also worry that the low pay restricts entry to the profession to those who can afford to subsidise their own living costs.
As to why anyone would do 50% extra hours for no extra money. In some careers, to get the job done, it's what it takes sometimes. Rightly or wrongly.
Nope - always wrongly, always abuse / exploitation of staff
I'm right in saying you don't have to pay the service charge aren't I?
I've crossed it off in several places I've eaten...especially when they list 20% or so, and it's been poor..
Dr
mitsumonkey - Member
As to why anyone would do 50% extra hours for no extra money. In some careers, to get the job done, it's what it takes sometimes'Sometimes' is the keyword there. Sometimes isn't every day, every shift. Flexibility is no bad thing but all too often employees are being exploited in salaried jobs.
- and also in response to TJ.
I did go on to say that in this case (where it is the norm) that there is a different scenario, and while i don't disagree that it is 'exploitation' of a sort, the people that are being exploited are accepting of it for the long term benefits.
Still think stealing their tips is a prickish thing to do though.
Met him at gavroche 18 months ago, one of the nicest, seemingly genuine, approachable restauranteurs ive ever met. All the staff seemed incredibly proud to work there too, oddly, if that was going on.
People say the same thing about Donald Trump when they meet him at his resorts. Of course he's nice to you - he's on the meter and thats what you're paying him for. 🙂
The whole tip/service charge thing should be left behind. It's a remnant of an era of class division and is only there to make the diners feel generous/superior and the staff grateful/inferior.
Still think stealing their tips is a prickish thing to do though.
As I understand it, he isn't. Customers think that the service charge is the same as a tip, so don't tip. It isn't.
Except that he lied about it.
Dunno how old you are tomhoward, but service charge didn't used to exist. It was introduced so people didn't have to work out the tip (and to deal with skinflints of course).
Restuarant staff used to explain the tip was already added when asked by diners.
This thing about it not being the same as a tip is new and IMO an attempt to gouge more money out of customers & staff at the same time.
Totally agree with you on why the chefs are willing (and happy) to work such long hours - and the potential benefits to their future career.
Indeed, its the same in many careers. I certainly did in my early days. Plus its enjoyable to build top-ranked businesses so always smile at the "I am not working past 17:00" mentality. Fine. just dont complain if others do better.
Will definitely be a bit more vigilant now about what is being added to my bill & whether it is a genuine tip for staff or just goes to the profits of the restaurant.
I'm noticing more & more places add on a 'service charge' rather than calling it a tip & I have always assumed it goes to the staff....
The problem you have with all this is "celebrity" kitchens are aware they are career stepping stones both for chef and waiting staff.
Chef maybe, but for the waiting staff?? Stepping stone to what? Do Pizza Express only hire waiting staff with Michelin star experience?
Is this referring to waiting staff and chefs?
Either way, waiters here are very different from Pizza Express and from my recent experience at a M* restaurant really add to the experience, especially a good sommelier.
Welcome to the Catering trade.
Been doing it for 20 years. The first 10 in commercial places. 60 hours week are quite normal.
The last 10 in a school have been much more relaxed.
I went to the fat duck recently, with the Mrs and a group of friends. For the volume of food and drink, £500 each was bloody extortionate. Yet apparently it barely breaks even.
Was famished on the way home, ended up grabbing a subway...
I'm moving towards a no tips policy. Antiquated system based on fear and embarassment, at least in Blighty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28793677
Don't go to the Us then where anything less than 20% tip is considered a smack in the chops by the staff.
I went to the fat duck recently, with the Mrs and a group of friends. For the volume of food and drink, £500 each was bloody extortionate. Yet apparently it barely breaks even.
Was famished on the way home, ended up grabbing a subway...
If you want volume then go to an all you can eat buffet.
The food at The Fat Duck is not about volume, it's about taste, texture, skills and the whole experience.