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Please help make the return to school safer by enforcing the wearing of face masks in communal areas. Just like shops.
I thought the govt had pretty much caved in on this one already; if yuo want certainty you'll need to be petitioning your local school, more likely
The government have just deferred responsibility to councils/schools in non local lock down areas I believe.
I can see it going the usual way. Ie. They'll eventually follow Scotland....after there are enough infections to make it obvious mind you.😕
if yuo want certainty you’ll need to be petitioning your local school, more likely
And your ‘local school’ needs a clear lead from government if it expects parents to back them up. No clear government instruction will be translated as ‘nannying fussbucket lefty teachers muzzling my kid’ by some.
Vague, noncommittal guidance from this government?
Surely not?!
They’ll eventually follow Scotland
^^ lol, it really is that simple isn't it?
I'll pass on signing the petition thx
I'm not in favour - just let the kids crack on. And anyone with secondary school kids knows they are mixing as normal outside school.
What has been put in place is a perfectly workable solution - Head's know their own school and layouts best. Old schools have narrow corridors, big new schools have wide open spaces and communal areas.
Just politics being played here - and as for Sturgeon - she's the biggest politics player there is. Bet she has a special 'how can we embarrass England today and make me look ace' team.
And anyone with secondary school kids knows they are mixing as normal outside school.
Whilst I agree with your second paragraph, have to say our kids, and the majority of their mates, are still only meeting up occasionally and being careful with distancing. Couple of small groups of kids in the village blatantly ignoring the rules, but surprised how strong it still is here in a village of nearly 5000
People saying 'just crack on' without masks need to ask whether they're considering the teachers' safety as many of them would prefer to see masks worn, especially in communal areas where kids will be moving around shoulder to shoulder. That wouldn't be allowed in most (maybe all) workplaces so why should it be the case in schools simply because we have an incompetent PM and Cabinet?
Bet she has a special ‘how can we embarrass England today and make me look ace’ team.
Boris is quite capable of that. Seems odd that Scotland were following England each week our of lockdown now it’s the opposite. Or may be they’re just watching each other for ideas and seeing how it works and is accepted by the public.
And anyone with secondary school kids knows they are mixing as normal outside school.
I beg to differ, the kids in our area are being more responsible than the adults in the village pub.
Running the village shop I haven't had to prompt a teen once about wearing a mask, the adults on the other hand are a absolute shambles.
she’s the biggest politics player there is
Maybe so. But Scotland have only been following what other countries are doing… the big difference is that she explains and communicates in a way that makes Johnson look like a complete incompetent in comparison. That’s not on her.
And your ‘local school’ needs a clear lead from government if it expects parents to back them up. No clear government instruction will be translated as ‘nannying fussbucket lefty teachers muzzling my kid’ by some.
do they? I think they just need to show some clear well reasoned and effectively communicated logic to where/when they are asking for people to wear masks. If they need some help with that, Nicola Sturgeon's announcement is on-line - she seemed to explain quite clearly the rationale; if you then have head teachers who know the physical infrastructure of their buildings then they can be even more nuanced. Of course head teachers might need to have the skills to communicate with pupils, parents and staff using different tones and language (but you would hope that is the sort of thing that makes you a head).
The issue with allowing "local schools" freedom is some schools will be managed by exactly the sort of people you refer to above - and will decide their school doesn't need "such nonsense", whilst others will be managed by the paranoid who will add their own "extra" rules on top (which may or may not be well thought out!).
Schools shouldn’t have to explain and persuade parents of the need for these measures, that is Johnson’s job. Parents shouldn’t have to explain and persuade heads of the need for these measures either, that is also Johnson’s job. Cuts both ways. An absence of leadership will result in unnecessary mess and conflict.
And anyone with secondary school kids knows they are mixing as normal outside school.
All the more reason to protect the adults in the school by having the students wear masks?
I have two teenage kids; they've been super sensible.
And your ‘local school’ needs a clear lead from government if it expects parents to back them up...
Speaking as a parent (Ungh), I tend to be more impressed by schools taking the initiative and exceeding the "government guidelines" which ours seem to be doing. I will send the kids in with masks on day one and they know to follow any instructions given. Parents that kick off will be few and far between and the issue won't actually be the masks...
But let's be honest, even though the phrase has gone out of fashion, the full return of pupils to schools is still at least part of the 'herd immunity' strategy. More People will be getting CV19 in the coming weeks.
Their right of course the relative risk to students is lower. Of course it's not zero and more importantly the transfer risk posed to teachers, older and/or sheltered relatives and other people that kids WILL come into contact with outside of school hours is substantial. I expect we'll see a solid bit of a mess happening about 3-4 weeks from today, masks in corridors might slow it a tad.
Cummings will be sharpening up the rhetoric & excuses as well as readying a scapegoat and a couple of dead cats should they be needed as we speak. It's a well oiled machine now...
Masks and other actions/measures will also reduce the transmission of other viruses, making Covid-19 less serious and reducing the load on the NHS. It's quite possible that the Excess Deaths figures for the remainder of the year could be negative as a result.
Yup Scotroutes nails it hopefully schools take some initiative of course they could have anyway without Boris saying, well can if you want.
I'm pro-masks but i won't sign the petition. There's a big difference in wearing a mask for a trip to the supermarket that might last an hour at most, to wearing one for an 8 hour school day. The physical discomfort from extended use will be significant for many children and the psychological impact of not seeing friends faces is also very real. It's a big ask of an 11 year old particularly, but also older kids, to shoulder the responsibility for something which is highly unlikely to physically impact them.
It’s a big ask of an 11 year old particularly, but also older kids, to shoulder the responsibility for something which is highly unlikely to physically impact them
They do have a responsibility to limit transmission to teachers so that they in turn can limit transmission to their families, both groups will include the more vulnerable (age, medical conditions etc). Masks in communal areas would involve limited time, especially as schools are likely to be along children not to congregate indoor during breaks.
Def not signing for two main reasons: its for the schools to determine best system within exisiting guidlines. Secondly - no one knows what would be the knock on health impact of getting young kids to wear a mask for 8hrs a day would be. Not only skin issues but lung and respiratory tract impact - wearing a damp cloth on your face whilst oxygenating it then sticking in a drawer overnight to stick bag on your face and repeat ad nausem without control for this length of time all week will not be without significant consequence.
It’s a big ask of an 11 year old particularly, but also older kids, to shoulder the responsibility for something which is highly unlikely to physically impact them
Why do people still not get that masks are about reducing the spread if you happen to have Covid-19, potentially asymptomatically!
Unfortunately, masks or not, we will get schools closed for a few weeks, as the teachers pick up the virus from the kids. Same is happening in factories.
I think that's ^ why schools and businesses are taking things into their own hands, anything to reduce the risk of closures.
Unfortunately, masks or not, we will get schools closed for a few weeks, as the teachers pick up the virus from the kids. Same is happening in factories.
Are you stuck in some sort of Victorian wormhole? There’s no kids in factories.
Secondly – no one knows what would be the knock on health impact of getting young kids to wear a mask for 8hrs a day would be.
As far as I'm aware, nobody is asking kids to wear a mask for 8 hours a day.
They are only to be worn in communal areas like corridors and school buses. They don't need to wear them in classrooms or outside.
In an 8 hour school day they might have to wear a mask half a dozen times in 10-20 minute bursts.
wearing a damp cloth on your face whilst oxygenating it then sticking in a drawer overnight to stick bag on your face and repeat ad nausem without control for this length of time all week will not be without significant consequence.
Or they could use a freshly washed one each day.
The petition makes no reference to communal areas but states "In order to protect our children, face masks should be made mandatory for all secondary education."
The OP has also stated on another thread that they wish for masks to be worn at all times in schools
Boris is quite capable of that. Seems odd that Scotland were following England each week our of lockdown now it’s the opposite. Or may be they’re just watching each other for ideas and seeing how it works and is accepted by the public.
Not really odd at all, where Scotgov looked like they lagged/copied was in opening up post the peak, now they're looking like they lead in terms of decisive action on outbreaks etc. They've been more cautious/sensible on both counts, really.
absolutely would not, ever, consider supporting such a pointless unenforceable restriction of freedom.
if an individual teacher wants to wanna wear one, crack on
absolutely would not, ever, consider supporting such a pointless unenforceable restriction of freedom
How do you feel about masks in shops?
I think masks in shops is daft too but whatever, people seem to be crapping themselves so I don’t want to upset them.
Forcing kids to wear them in school in a ineffective attempt to eliminate some unknowably small risks is a step too far for me!
absolutely would not, ever, consider supporting such a pointless unenforceable restriction of freedom.
And again....
See my previous post. The wearing of masks is a slight individual inconvenience that enables all to have more freedom.
Forcing kids to wear them in school in a ineffective attempt to eliminate some unknowably small risks is a step too far for me!
Yet we've been making them wear ties for decades.
masks in shops - IMO unnecessary as long as reasonable distancing can be maintained, dont mind wearing one just as supplementary, in case there are too many people for the space...cheaper and easier than a full time security guard with a clicker/counter
i dont think there should be (unnecessary) kids in shops - thats some way from essential and increases risk considerably for everyone involved
the benefits of wearing masks reduces to close to zero if they are not worn 'properly' (fitted, adjusted, cleaned/disposed of)
sorry to be contrary, but this little echo chamber needed challenging
the benefits of wearing masks reduces to close to zero if they are not worn ‘properly’ (fitted, adjusted, cleaned/disposed of)
Do you have a reputable, peer reviewed source for that? The close to zero bit
And surely a little education in mask wearing and handling would mitigate it?
not handy, you got one that says im wrong?
Is that how it works? You make stuff up then request others come up specific studies to counter your claim?
Yet we’ve been making them wear ties for decades.
and have you seen how badly they wear them? And those that wear them properly having them grabbed and yanked.
absolutely would not, ever, consider supporting such a pointless unenforceable restriction of freedom
How do you feel about masks in shops?
Or things like wearing seatbelts, breaking the speed limit, driving under the influence?
Bet she has a special ‘how can we embarrass England today and make me look ace’ team.
Shooting fish in a barrel that.
dmorts - no it mostly goes, sit behind keyboard, type "peer reviewed, double blind" against anything you dont wholeheartedly agree with.
you wanna spend your evening proving you are just as right as i am, you go ahead - im gonna take a guess* that there is no scientific review of the effectiveness of poorly worn masks in barely controlled school environments against CV19, never mind one that has been peer reviewed to your satisfaction.
the question was would i sign a petition - the answer was, and remains, no.
if you dont like contrary opinions, you might find you are in the wrong place.
*im off to swap a tyre and oil a chain
They are only to be worn in communal areas like corridors and school buses. They don’t need to wear them in classrooms or outside.
Seems to be the wrong way round to me. Walking past another person or briefly chatting in a corridor is lower risk of spreading that sitting in a classroom for 6 hours with everyone breathing out with no mask. The research shows that the longer a group spends in a room together the more it spreads. So if one kid in classroom has covid they will spread it to all the other kids and teachers.
Those kids will then take it home and spread it amongst their families (who are older and at higher risk of bad outcome) and schools will be all shut again by November.