That’s a bit of a daft argument tbh- you can be totally calm, and still use an inappropriate level of force. That’s a matter of judgement as well as state of mind.
Its not a daft argument at all pinning someone up against a pillar for walking towards you is not calm behaviour no matter how try to spin it.
But it’s pretty undeniable that he was regulating the amount of force, isn’t it.
Is it now? I’d say he wasn’t regulating the amount of force or he’d used many other options before grabbing her throat and pining her up.
A few observations. I’d like to think I’ve got a little knowledge in the area of security/the public and control and restraint. 11 years of managing, investigation and planning.
1. His reaction is last minute. Therefore driven by anger rather than a planned intervention. He had plenty of time to decide what to do but he bursts up. Lack of control.
2. There’s no attempt to block the path with open hands. Look at his body position. All anger
3. His face tells you his mental state as does the hand round the back of the neck.
4. There’s absolutely NO WAY he would have responded like this to another fully grown male.
It’s a disproportionate use of force against someone he had already decided did not pose a threat to his personal safety. All of the bluster and bullshit about concealed weapons etc is nonsense. If he really believed that he’d have been under the table or out of the room. He got angry and lost control. Simple as that. What that says about him as a person , his party etc I’ll leave for others to debate.
I'm sure it'll all blow over & he'll be back in the day job before long, certainly Johnson will have him back in a flash.
Unless his ex wife pops up with some claims of dodginess (tho apparently she left him because he was having an affair with Liz Truss 🙄🤯)
"I remember a chair being pushed out. Then being shoved. I was saying, over and over: ‘This is a peaceful protest, a peaceful protest.’ I was saying it quite audibly, certainly loud enough.”
“He continued to grip me by the neck and the arm all the way to the door of the building. Then, when we got to the door, he shoved me outside on to the street, and said: ‘This is what happens when people like you disturb our dinner.’”
“I had a phone, and a tiny handbag, which was open and full of leaflets. The only thing I was armed with was peer-reviewed science.”
“The pressure on my neck never eased all the way down the stairs and until we were outside.”
And it turns out Mr Field used to be a member of the T.A.
You'd like to think he received some training in how to deal with people without grabbing them by the neck.
4. There’s absolutely NO WAY he would have responded like this to another fully grown male.
Absolutely no way - are you sure? Because despite that little knowledge, I doubt if even he knows for certain how he would respond in a hypothetical situation.
He recently defended the sultan of Bruneis death penalty for homosexually, in the 80s thought that 'AIDS awareness campaigns were a waste of taxpayer money' & said AIDS charities were 'little more than a front for gay rights'
What a lovely chap 🤢
And it turns out Mr Field used to be a member of the T.A.
You’d like to think he received some training in how to deal with people without grabbing them by the neck.
Wait till you hear about Mark Francois 😆
Wasn't he in the Catering Corps?
He's probably damaged more people than Brexit.
MMA fighter with a vegetable peeler. Both represent a potential lethal force
I know quite a few MMA fighters, and despite having several degrees among them (one in astrophysics!), they’d probably do more damage to themselves with a vegetable peeler. 😁
Wait till you hear about Mark Francois 😆
STW in getting it totally wrong shocker.
Not totally wrong, not in the slightest dear fellow of the internet.
Its a matter of interpretation and post(s) below yours (by other solicitors and notables) prove a very different story to the one you proclaim is the “reasoned action”
So, the internet wombles seem to provoke an argument where aggressive actions should be applauded.
I’ll applaud you with a slow handclap....
👎👏 👏 👏 👏 👎
STW in getting it totally wrong shocker.
Yup and then pretended the argument was about something else. These are from the first page only, and I was skim reading so might have missed some:
That is not reasonable and justified use of force.
Not reasonable force by any definition.
that wasn’t reasonable force.
Nah it was still unreasonable way to handle someone handing out leaflets
Of course it's s huge win for Greenpeace, making Tory MP at posh dinner for the elites look like a violent bully, he's given them far more publicity than their stunt would've ever warranted, had he sat there like a normal person and ignored her.
That said Tories reputation with younger people is already mud so attacking a climate protestor is just what they'd expect
While with the Tory membership that's a plus point, and now his record as a homophobic bigot has been dug up and him fathering an illegitimate child with Liz truss ending his marriage,we only have to find out that his aggression was just a coke fuelled rage & he's leadership potential!
him fathering an illegitimate child with Liz truss
Cite.
Drac
Subscriber
Is it now? I’d say he wasn’t regulating the amount of force
Really? That's absurd tbf. He could easily have used more force, but didn't. QED basically.
Ok, since in typical STW fashion we can’t agree that the person who caused harm to another is in the wrong..
Let all those do exactly the same tomorrow.
Go have lunch somewhere, wait for a woman to walk behind and get up.. go grab her by the throat and push her against a wall.
100% of you wouldn’t do that action.
100% of you wouldn’t even think of doing that action.
Location in this instance is irrelevant, the fact that it’s full of people who seem to think they’re above any moral or statutory Law of this land can be mooted for the next 100 years.
So, pick any restaurant or cafe that serves food and pick a target...
Then come on here after you’ve been released on bail, and tell the truth about what charges are being brought against you and how long your family members support your actions.
And how long we support you too... I’d suggest about 11secs after you posted the response.
Try it out, find the real answer to our own moral conundrum.
Apalling behavior by Mark Field. I won't pretend to have much time for Tories, but I am amazed that so many of them are seeking to defend his actions with entirely disingenuous "security concerns".
Really? That’s absurd tbf. He could easily have used more force, but didn’t. QED basically.
So whay you’re saying because he didn’t nuke her from orbit as it’s the only way to be sure then that makes it ok.
Ok, since in typical STW fashion we can’t agree that the person who caused harm to another is in the wrong..
Let all those do exactly the same tomorrow.
Go have lunch somewhere, wait for a woman to walk behind and get up.. go grab her by the throat and push her against a wall.
100% of you wouldn’t do that action.
100% of you wouldn’t even think of doing that action.
Location in this instance is irrelevant, the fact that it’s full of people who seem to think they’re above any moral or statutory Law of this land can be mooted for the next 100 years.
So, pick any restaurant or cafe that serves food and pick a target…
Then come on here after you’ve been released on bail, and tell the truth about what charges are being brought against you and how long your family members support your actions.
And how long we support you too… I’d suggest about 11secs after you posted the response.
Try it out, find the real answer to our own moral conundrum.tter.
Or we're all getting a bit carried away by a situation that, admitted by the perpetrator, could have been handled better.
Playing what if games is easy.
What if I went to left wing party, stuck on doc martins and started shouting about Brexit or PC culture? I'd get tackled by security, if Fields gets sent down - watch as this becomes a right wing tactic as well - trolling politicians into reacting.
If she'd been in a Niqab and screamed "Allah Ackbar" - what do you guys think would have happened? She'd have probably been tazered or shot several times in the head.
So what is the latest on how the rest of guests felt at the time? Admittedly I think he didn't handle the situation that well, but I don't think he was acting out of anger or intended to harm the woman. I think he probably genuinely thought what he was doing was reasonable in the heat of the moment and I think a lot of you too easily believe your own bullshit and jump to conclusions about his guilt.
STW in getting it totally wrong shocker.
You do realise finding one lawyer arguing something doesnt make it a closed case. Frankly I would be more shocked if you couldnt find a lawyer willing to defend something like this.
His response really doesnt support his claims about a serious threat either. I mean his claim was he thought she might be armed and so he felt the need to remove her from the room and "decisively close down the threat" (is he a mate of Mark "i wasnt trained to lose" Francois?)
He came nowhere close to the level of force required to handle a proper threat. More aggressive than I would expect to throw a peaceful troublemaker out of a pub but not enough to handle someone who was going to act up and nowhere close to handling a serious problem.
outofbreath
Member
him fathering an illegitimate child with Liz trussCite
You're right only a DNA test can solve this ! as the affair ended after she was pregnant
& Double apologies for the daily mail link🤪
https://www.****/news/article-387015/A-list-Torys-affair-married-Cameron-high-flyer.html
Maybe he's not quite up to Johnson's standard, just a cabinet role then ?
Both in the wrong but him massively more. Greenpeace say the protestors self-identified as they entered the event; if that is correct why were they not turned away?
As bikebouy above, change the setting and re-consider.
If it was your wife, mother, girlfriend, sister, daughter being subjected to that behaviour?
Field should be prosecuted for assault. It would then be for the defence to persuasively argue his case - unless the magistrate/judge has a bias.....towards tories, against greenpeace.
As for any suggestion of him and liz truss - enough to give you nightmares.
Mark Field MP grabs protestor by the throat
I am not sure what the protestor is expecting ... 🤔
I am not sure what the protestor is expecting …
Ah! Our resident court jester has arrived.
As for any suggestion of him and liz truss – enough to give you nightmares.
Pah, that's nothing...
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe/status/805423681786839040?s=19
The man is a Tory and therefore a C***. Everything that comes after that follows is related and infinitely excusable by the establishment. Nothing to see here . . .
Not read all the replies, as only on mobile but will read the full thread tomorrow.
As a former soldier serving during the 80s and 90s, serving in places like NI and Greenham Common. My view is that the lady was uninvited but posed no security risk. I don’t in anyway believe he thought she was a risk. His action was completely incorrect and over the top, he grabbed her throat, didn’t in anyway look for a potential weapon, to remove what may have been in her hand. He walked her out, You don’t escort out a potential security threat.
We regularly had Green Peace to deal with whilst also dealing with genuine security concerns.
As much as people may say she was a potential threat, you genuinely know who is or isn’t, yes in movies the baddy pretends to be a peaceful protestor, in real life, green peace are just peaceful.
Drac
Subscriber
So whay you’re saying because he didn’t nuke her from orbit as it’s the only way to be sure then that makes it ok.
Look, you said something stupid, it's OK, we all do it. It's not OK to put words in other people's mouths to try and hide the stupid thing you said yourself. If you have to resort to making stuff up you're just admitting you know you're wrong- exactly like Mark Field funnily enough. Have a word with yourself.
w00dster
Subscriber
He walked her out, You don’t escort out a potential security threat.
Bingo. Everything he did disproves his claim that he thought there might be a threat.
That’s very odd Northwind as it’s you who has been making it up and now trying to resort to be insulting.
It's really not. He is spot on.
It was excessive in my view, due to many reasons already mentioned.
Dancing the line of criminal /assault.
If the CPS decide it's not worth prosecution, I kinda get that, but he's certainly fallen below the professional standards expected for MPs, and should be deselected and face a by-election.
It's just not cricket, as his kind would say.
That cartoon of Francois is spot on. I currently train reservists, his generation were mostly dogshit, the TA was a drinking club, so all of his tales of derring-do are bloating of the highest order.
Let's say it hadn't been a woman and was, instead, an Alexander Gustafsson lookalike.
I can ****ing guarantee you the snivelling scumbag would have sat in his seat desperately pretending he hadn't seen a thing. He decided to become 'protector of the people' because he saw someone he figured he could take and fancied showing off his hard man status.
Prick. I'm just hoping one of these arseholes tries the same thing on Joanna Jędrzejczyk some day.
“Greenpeace say the protestors self-identified“
This doesn’t ring true. On the radio last night they had a Labour councillor from London who was on the same table as the Conservative MP. He explained that:
1) there appeared to be complete chaos for some time before the MP got up - with a lot of men and women suddenly entering the room screaming and shouting
2) he said he was actually quite scared on the seconds before the woman went past the table
3) he said that even as a GreenPeace supporter that he did not realise it was GreenPeace doing it
4) that when the MP got up he initially blocked the women who then tried to get past him anyway - she was very focussed on getting to the top table where the Chancellor was giving a speech with the Governor of the Bank of England sitting next to him.
So if a GreenPeace supported on the same place as the MP was scared and didn’t know what was going on it’s hardly a massive leap to assume the MP in the same space at the same time may have felt the same and reacted in a way that with hindsight was an over reaction but at that split second seemed right.
Here's the longer video again where they didn't suddenly enter the room, where they were giving a speech of why they were there and where you can see how easy others found it to escort them out without the need to pin them up against a pliiar.
greenpeace protestor or not he still acted like an angry bully
he said he was actually quite scared on the seconds before the woman went past the table
This whole "responding to threat" angle still completely disappears when it is observed that Field in no way acts like someone responding to threat - his response is angry, 'nuff said.
Ooh, page 8! Is this the one where we change our minds and start to see other people’s point of view?
(I bet I’m the only one who has changed their mind and that was Piers Morgan’s fault 🤣)
robdixon
Member
“Greenpeace say the protestors self-identified“This doesn’t ring true. On the radio last night they had a Labour councillor from London who was on the same table as the Conservative MP.
Can you provide a link for this, thanks. Unless you mean Tom Sleigh who tweeted similar and says they’re sympathetic to green peace rather than a member, isn’t a labour councillor and is a councillor in The City of London which is an old boys club / rotten borough given that the votes of businesses outnumber those of residents
Ooh, page 8! Is this the one where we change our minds and start to see other people’s point of view?
I think this is the page when the Tories finally give up and start defending Bozzer on another thread.
Bloody women eh? Can't live with 'em, can't spill wine on their sofas or 'grasp them firmly'.
Everyone in the hall where so scared they got their phones and cameras out to record it.
“Can you provide a link for this, thanks. Unless you mean Tom Sleigh who tweeted similar and says they’re sympathetic to green peace rather than a member, isn’t a labour councillor“
Yes - it is Tom Sleigh. Rather than judge on a tweet and go straight to character assassination why not listen to what he said?
It’s on the LBC app - look under “catch up”, then find Andrew Pierce 7pm on Friday and scroll to 6 minutes 15 seconds in.
I didn't asssasinate his character I assassinated your usual (lack of) accuracy.
Rotten borough, he got elected in an uncontested vote.
Drac
Subscriber
That’s very odd Northwind as it’s you who has been making it up
Oh go on, I was annoyed with your crap last night but today I'm more laid back- citation needed, show me what I made up? Nothing, is the answer. OTOH I quoted the bit that you were making up to misrepresent what I said already, but here it is again:
You: "I’d say he wasn’t regulating the amount of force"
Me: "Really? That’s absurd tbf. He could easily have used more force, but didn’t. QED basically. "
You : "So what you’re saying because he didn’t nuke her from orbit as it’s the only way to be sure then that makes it ok."
I won't push for an apology, just admitting you got it all wrong would be fine.